From: owner-wanderer-digest@smoe.org (wanderer-digest) To: wanderer-digest@smoe.org Subject: wanderer-digest V2 #19 Reply-To: wanderer@smoe.org Sender: owner-wanderer-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-wanderer-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk wanderer-digest Friday, March 15 2002 Volume 02 : Number 019 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Family of Tunings - not breaking strings [M.Russell@iaea.org] RE: Family of Tunings - not breaking strings ["Kate Bennett" ] Re: Family of Tunings [Susan McNamara ] Re: Family of Tunings ["Marian" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:46:31 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Family of Tunings - not breaking strings On Wednesday, 13 March, 2002 20:39 Kate Bennett [mailto:kate@katebennett.com] wrote: > I agree, I always seem to break them tuning > down as much as tuning up...I try to remember > what my friend once advised me which is not > to let the string ring as you are tuning as > that makes it break easier for some > reason.. By "not to let the string ring" do you mean making sure there is no sound happening - the string is not vibrating while you're turning the tuning peg? I think that I do this anyway, but I didn't know it was important as far as minimizing string breakage. Usually I do the tuning up or down in stages - a little bit at a time - I test where I am in between each stage, then dampen the strings by putting my right hand over all of them while turning the tuning peg a little bit farther. I do it like this because I don't ever want a flying broken string to hit me or anyone else in the eye - my kids sometimes are around when I'm tuning. Breaking strings is not just a pain in the xxx, it also usually scares the hell out of me! I hate it! Marian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:18:34 -0800 From: "Kate Bennett" Subject: RE: Family of Tunings - not breaking strings Yes, that is what I meant. >>By "not to let the string ring" do you mean making sure there is no sound happening - the string is not vibrating while you're turning the tuning peg?... I test where I am in between each stage, then dampen the strings<<< ******************************************** Kate Bennett www.katebennett.com sponsored by Polysonics Discover the Indies at Taylor Guitars: http://www.taylorguitars.com/artists/awp/indies/bennett.html ******************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:05:34 +0100 From: M.Russell@iaea.org Subject: RE: Family of Tunings On Thursday, 14 March, 2002 04:43, Jim McCarthy [mailto:jkmccarthy@pacbell.net] wrote: > This fascinating thread forced me out of > 'lurkdom' to make a simple point that maybe > most(?) of you have already caught onto. > Many years ago when I first ventured into > open tunings for Joni's music and others, > I discovered that any chord shape played > on the highest (treble) five strings in > Open G (DGDGBD, or D57543) works just > perfectly if played on the lowest (bass) > five strings in Open D (DADF#AD, or D75435). Yes - these are, respectively, the tunings for the Circle Game family and the Both Sides Now family. It is possible to play songs from either family in either tuning, just by shifting the chord shapes - there are some things that don't work, but mostly it all works. > Viewed numerically using the Joni "tuning > family" notation under discussion now, the > reason behind the empirical discovery I made > is clear: in open G, the highest five strings > are _G7543, while in open D, the lowest five > strings are D7543_. Cool, eh? Totally! You have explained it very well, Jim! > My question for the group ... is to ask whether > you already make use of "chord family" relations > like this "across the strings" (instead of up > and down the strings as in x75435 all being related > via a capo) to take what you already know from a > treble (bass) string quartet or quintet and apply > that knowledge to a related bass (treble) string > subset in an unfamiliar tuning ? Maybe intuitively, but I've never really sat down and tried to analyze it in detail or explain it to anyone else. I just sort of know things from observation/experience. For example, I have noticed that the pattern for the Turbulent Indigo family, x79035, is almost like the pattern for the Both Sides Now family, x75435. For the BSN pattern, notice that if you add the 4 to the 5 and subtract it from itself you get x79035. You can almost play all of the same chords in the TI family that you can in the BSN family. If we start on B, for the TI tuning, we get the tones BF#D#D#F#B and if we start on B for the BSN tuning, we get BF#BD#F#B The only difference between these two is B/D# of the 3rd string. Also, the numbers in the patterns always correspond to the following intervals: 1 = minor second 2 = major second 3 = minor third (it's three half steps higher that the string being used as the basis) 4 = major third 5 = perfect fourth 6 = tri-tone (augmented 4th or diminished 5th) 7 = perfect fifth 8 = minor sixth 9 = major sixth 10 = minor seventh 11 = major seventh 12 = octave > What other pairs of tunings Joni uses frequently > are related like this ? There are many other relationships like this. Here's another one: The BSN tuning (x75435) and the tuning for Night Ride Home (x77235). In the BSN tuning, if you subtract 2 from the 4 and add it to the first 5 in the series, you get x77235. You can get very similar sounds between the two tunings with only slight changes in the chord shapes. I have never tried to explain this because I fear other people would think it's really complicated, but this is kind of how I move around and understand the tuning relationships - by the numbers rather than the letter names for the tones. I just feel overwhelmed when I see letters, for some reason. > Or do you work from "scratch", so to speak, > building up chord shapes in an unfamiliar > tuning after first figuring out the notes > in the scale(s) ? I never do it like that. A new tuning is always an adventure - just playing around with different known chord shapes on all the strings and if those don't work, then I try to create beautiful sounds using some new shape. This works really well with Joni's tunings, which are all very melodic in and of themselves. They sound nice when the open strings are strummed. Many of her chord shapes are transferrable between one tuning and another, just they occur on different frets or are shifted over one or two strings. > years back, I wrote a computer program > to accomplish the labor for me, producing > chord shapes for any chord in any tuning > as a tool for working from the sheet music > guitar chord names [shapes in standard > tuning being worthless] into whatever open > tuning I wanted to try when learning a > song ... I think this is a fantastic idea. It's amazing that you could write a program like that. Do you still use it? There is an online utility for doing this at: http://www.guitar.to > (Ouch! -my brain hurts Mine kind of does, too, now. I think I'll stop! Regards to all, Marian ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:10:22 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: DOG EAT DOG transcription I made an Acrobat PDF file of the DOG EAT DOG transcription from the misses songbook for Laurent. If anyone else would like the file, please email me privately! take care, sue ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 13:44:24 -0500 From: Susan McNamara Subject: Re: Family of Tunings >Greetings fellow Wanderers - >the reason behind the >empirical discovery I made is clear: in open G, the highest five strings >are _G7543, while in open D, the lowest five strings are D7543_. Cool, eh? That is very cool. Often when I'm doodling I will notice relationships like that but always forget to write it down so I'll remember the next time I'm trying to figure out a song. I hate that! :-) The only time I didn't just "hunt and peck" while trying to transcribe a song is when I worked on Impossible Dreamer. While trying to figure out the tuning I worked on the bass notes first and worked up. Now that I look at the tuning the first four strings are similar to Hejira, which had the same kind of bass line progressions as the way I was playing ID. Very Cool. thanks for bringing that up. I also realized while thinking about this that Impossible Dreamer has the same generic tuning as Blue Motel Room, so I could add that into the set list. I have to buy new strings this weekend! take care, sue > >My question for the group (especially for those [you know who you are :-] >who blaze trails for the rest of us through the previously uncharted >territory of Joni's unique tunings) is to ask whether you already make >use of "chord family" relations like this "across the strings" (instead >of up and down the strings as in x75435 all being related via a capo) to >take what you already know from a treble (bass) string quartet or quintet >and apply that knowledge to a related bass (treble) string subset in an >unfamiliar tuning ? > >What other pairs of tunings Joni uses frequently are related like this ? - -- Susan McNamara Assistant to the Dean of Students Cornell University 401 Willard Straight Hall Ithaca, NY 14853 Voice: (607) 255-1115 FAX: (607) 255-8082 E-Mail:sem8@cornell.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 21:00:10 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: Family of Tunings I thought of two other related tunings. One is not a Joni tuning and the other is, but they are an example of being able to shift the chord shapes directly horizontally. The tuning for In France They Kiss On Main Street is x77325, but it's also possible to play this song using the tuing of x75232. Refer to the tabs in these two tunings in www.jmdl.com/guitar/ for further info. Marian ------------------------------ End of wanderer-digest V2 #19 *****************************