From: owner-wanderer-digest@smoe.org (wanderer-digest) To: wanderer-digest@smoe.org Subject: wanderer-digest V1 #12 Reply-To: wanderer@smoe.org Sender: owner-wanderer-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-wanderer-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk wanderer-digest Sunday, October 21 2001 Volume 01 : Number 012 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: generic numerical tuning notation/.wav etc. [Patti Witten ] Re: tuning for Your House - Jonatha Brooke [Mark Domyancich ] Re: generic numerical tuning notation/.wav etc. ["Marian" Subject: Re: generic numerical tuning notation/.wav etc. "Marian" wrote: > I don't know why, but I find the letter names of tunings really totally > confusing! > > My whole approach to tuning the guitar was always from the relative > relationship of the strings to each other, most easily understood and > represented by generic numerical notation. Hi Marian, I was trained early on in classical music (violin, flute) so I have the opposite POV. Musical notation is generic to me, and the numeric representation is therefor another system I have to learn, even tho it's pretty simple. I never learned tablature for the same reason-- finite brain space. Well, actually, I'm just balky! I don't read for guitar at all, chord names and diagrams work for me. > When I first learned to play guitar back in 1965, I learned how to tune it > by tuning the bottom note to E, then tuning the following strings by > fretting 55545, starting on the just-tuned E and working up. Is this how > most of you learned to tune the guitar? Me, too, because these are "universal" intervals (in western European music, anyway). As you discovered when transcribing, you need another layer so to speak to anchor the intervals across octaves and key signatures; thus the letter names. The numeric system works among guitar players, but if it was your only system, you'd have a hard time telling a flute player what key you are in when capo'd at the 4th fret in a cgdgbd tuning. I have to translate like this for my band members quite often, esp when making charts. It helps to have a very basic music theory knowledge. > I often used the capo to bring the strings to the > pitch where I found it comfortable to sing any given song or to tune to the > pitch of a recording I was trying to learn. Me too. Still do, tho I sometimes wish I had a male tuned voice so I could sing songs in open-no-capo tunings. The low strings really sound best when stopped at the nut and saddle, nothing in between, even fingers. Is that why they make guitars in different keys, like harmonicas? Wanna get me a guitar that's tuned to my vocal range. I haven't tried any of Jonatha's tunings yet but I love her song "Your House" from Steady Pull, that one attracts me. Anyone know what tuning that is? btw I bought her CD via her website and to my surprise a few weeks later i got an email w/ a link to 3 additional songs in mp3 format. "Deny," "What We Are," and "Tu Dis Que Tu M'Aime," a french (Quebecois?) version of "How Deep Is Your Love?" Amazing. There was a polite request on the page asking users not to put em up on the web and spread them for free, but I'm sure they're out there. Ken (? I think slarty is named Ken, sorry, not sure) wrote: > There are many programs to make wav files. The windows recorder > program that comes with windows is one but a better one is called > Cool Edit. Good for one track stereo recording plus has many effects. > A much better one is Cool Edit Pro where you can make multiple tracks As for the discussion about wavs and mp3s, I use a MAC so my e-music software choices are not the same as PC. I use SoundJam to play mp3s. It has file conversion software to make AIFFs (plays on your car/home cd player). To get home recorded demos into any format I first use a free version of ProTools. I'm not too good at this stuff. I got Real Audio's software for making RA files. But after I uploaded them to my site no one could make them play except me! I don't know what I'm doing wrong. But that's another story. Patti - -- Patti Witten & Prairie Doll http://pattiwitten.com http://prairiedoll.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 17:58:42 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: tuning for Your House - Jonatha Brooke You can find all of jonatha brooke's tunings at her website in the discussion area under tunings and tech. This is the tuning she posted for Your House. CGEbFBbD C78254 There is a transcription of it on my guitar page. I love the song - so simple and beautiful. Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:43:56 -0500 From: Mark Domyancich Subject: Re: tuning for Your House - Jonatha Brooke I'm pretty sure this is the same tuning for The Wolf That Lives in Lindsey. Maybe she should credit Howard with finding it out. :) Mark At 5:58 PM +0100 10/20/01, Marian wrote: >You can find all of jonatha brooke's tunings at her website in the >discussion area under tunings and tech. This is the tuning she posted for >Your House. > >CGEbFBbD >C78254 > >There is a transcription of it on my guitar page. > >I love the song - so simple and beautiful. > >Marian >marian@jmdl.com >http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:05:31 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: tuning for Your House - Jonatha Brooke "Mark Domyancich" wrote: > I'm pretty sure this is the same tuning for The Wolf That Lives in > Lindsey. It is the same tuning as for The Wolf. However, Jonatha's use of this tuning is entirely different than Joni's. This particular song does not have such complicated chords, but the chord shapes are very different from Joni's barred chords. There's at least one other song that Jonatha wrote using this tuning where the chord shapes are even more unusual. It is interesting to compare Jonatha's songs in this tuning with Joni's Wolf and Last Chance Lost. This tuning was published in the Mingus songbook, along with tab. Maybe Jonatha found it there, but maybe she just found it on her own. I'm not sure that Jonatha ever referred to Joni's tunings when writing her songs. She seems to have a very different approach to tunings and chord shapes. It has been very interesting to explore her music after spending intense time learning Joni's. It's a very different approach in many respects. Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:29:30 +0100 From: "Marian" Subject: Re: generic numerical tuning notation/.wav etc. "Patti Witten" wrote: > I was trained early on in classical music (violin, flute) so > ... musical notation is generic to me, and the numeric > representation is therefor another system I have to learn, It's interesting to hear that your experience is so different. > even tho it's > pretty simple. I never learned tablature for > the same reason-- finite brain > space. Well, actually, I'm just balky! I don't > read for guitar at all, chord > names and diagrams work for me. All I had ever known until about three or four years ago were the chord names and diagrams. I think tab is really fantastic, though. It has been worth learning it and it seems very easy to read. I don't really like trying to write out my transcriptions that way, though. Seems very tedious. > > When I first learned to play guitar back in 1965, I learned how to > > tune it by tuning the bottom note to E, then tuning the following > > strings by fretting 55545, starting on the just-tuned E and working > > up. Is this how most of you learned to tune the guitar? > > Me, too, because these are "universal" intervals > (in western European music, anyway). As you > discovered when transcribing, you need another > layer so to speak to anchor the intervals across > octaves and key signatures; thus the > letter names. The numeric system works among > guitar players, but if it was your only system, you'd > have a hard time telling a flute player what key you > are in when capo'd at the 4th fret in a cgdgbd tuning. I understand the importance of having the letter names when working with other musicians or when trying to define exactly the key that a song is in. It's just that when I see a tuning represented with letters, my mind sort of goes blank. I have to sit down and work out the numerical notation in order to relate what I see to what I already know. The numbers seems easier to comprehend. I can look at the letter names and understand the basic chord of the tuning, but only with the numbers can I immediately see: "Oh! That's in the same tuning as The Gallery" (or whatever). > I have to translate like this for my band members quite > often, esp when making charts. It helps to have a very > basic music theory knowledge. I do have that from three years of majoring in music at university. That training has been very helpful overall, but I wouldn't say that it was ever at all essential in any way to the work I have done with transcribing. Maybe it has helped as far as being able to communicate how to play a song to other people though. I think it's possible to learn to play songs, and even compose songs, without knowing anything about theory. I think Joni is a testimony to that fact. > > I often used the capo to bring the strings to the > > pitch where I found it comfortable to sing any given > > song or to tune to the > > pitch of a recording I was trying to learn. > > Me too. Still do, tho I sometimes wish I had a male tuned voice so I could > sing songs in open-no-capo tunings. The low strings really sound best when > stopped at the nut and saddle, nothing in between, even fingers. Is that > why they make guitars in different keys, like harmonicas? Wanna get me a > guitar that's tuned to my vocal range. They make guitars in different keys???? Never heard of that before!!! Tell me more! Marian marian@jmdl.com http://www.jmdl.com/guitar/marian/guitar.htm ------------------------------ End of wanderer-digest V1 #12 *****************************