From: owner-the-landing-digest@smoe.org (the-landing-digest) To: the-landing-digest@smoe.org Subject: the-landing-digest V3 #130 Reply-To: the-landing@smoe.org Sender: owner-the-landing-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-the-landing-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk the-landing-digest Tuesday, September 19 2000 Volume 03 : Number 130 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: halloween pics ["Ryan Sargent" ] Re: The New SNZ ["Ryan Sargent" ] Re: The New SNZ [BlowRedBlow@aol.com] Re: The New SNZ ["Ryan Sargent" ] Re: The New SNZ [BlowRedBlow@aol.com] Re: The New SNZ [BlowRedBlow@aol.com] Re: The New SNZ [Andy Harman ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 21:53:24 GMT From: "Ryan Sargent" Subject: Re: halloween pics It was me... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:38:19 GMT From: "Ryan Sargent" Subject: Re: The New SNZ I keep hearing people say refined like that is a bad thing. The goal of a musician is to always be growing in their creativity and refine the groups ensemble and individual playing. I think it was Tom who said once that if they practice to much and get to much technique on their instruments they will get to smooth. I found that to be a terrible statement. The greatest musicians of all time were consummate practicers and had virtuoso technique: Jelly roll Morton, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Bud Powell, Diz, Bird, Coltrane, Monk, etc... And the greatest level of technique is nuance. So they don't have to play a million things or really loud, because all that is implied in their playing. So in jazz one of the goals is to always attempt to refine the concept of swing and playing the blues, which in jazz is everything. Swing is a matter of ongoing coordination and participation. And technique is how your achieve total freedom of emotion. None of the great's felt their way over the progressions. When Louis played he knew every chord inside and out. And his virtuosity as a trumpeter gave him total freedom of expression (unrestricted union between subject and object). They were all refining their music and playing till the day they died. It's when a group looses the concept of swing and dealing with the blues on high ground that you have to worry, because then they are not refining the music or attempting to progress as a musician. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 19:18:04 EDT From: BlowRedBlow@aol.com Subject: Re: The New SNZ When I say refined, I don't mean they are better. When I say refined, I mean rehearsed... as in the energy is not there that once was. If you want to talk about a musician who was refined, yet still kept that energy, listen to Louis Prima with Sam Butera and the Witnesses. They did it, and you can bet that Prima (and especially Butera) knew the ins and outs of the music. - -Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 23:57:16 GMT From: "Ryan Sargent" Subject: Re: The New SNZ Actually the problem with SNZ then, would be not rehearsing enough. You have to give yourself over to the music all the time. To improvise means to attempting to improve by working with whatever is available. And lets just hope that SNZ didn't start to over-dub. Because Jazz is about a musical conversation between the band. What goes on with one solo is based on what's going on in the whole band. So when you over dub its like trying to get a conversation by recording one person talking first and then you talk over top of the recording later. Louis Prima's band was a great band. Not at all on the same level as Louis Armstrong, Duke, Trane, or Monk but they still could swing all night long. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:02:23 EDT From: BlowRedBlow@aol.com Subject: Re: The New SNZ you don't have to tell me about improv, what swing is all about, and whatever else. I play in a big band and several small jazz combos, seated behind the trombone. I know what it's about. All I did was repeat what was said to me by someone in close contact with the band. As I said, this came from Je Widenhoue's mother-in-law. She knows music. This is not my opinion, and I will not have one until I hear the album myself. - -Mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:15:08 EDT From: BlowRedBlow@aol.com Subject: Re: The New SNZ and as far as Prima goes, Armstrong was eager to cut an album with him. He was on the same "level" just as much as anybody else. However, Prima was an ENTERTAINER first, musician second. He gave the audience what they wanted and was concerned with them having a good time, before he was concerned for the artistry of the recordings. However, he was on that such level that he could do so, and still come off making quality music. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:55:06 -0400 From: Andy Harman Subject: Re: The New SNZ At 10:38 PM 09/18/2000 GMT, you wrote: >I keep hearing people say refined like that is a bad thing. There is not a lot of raw sound like the quintessential SNZ out there, and I'd hate to see them start sounding like everyone else. But every band changes and develops. IMO one of the things that made the original SNZ unique was the multi-instrumentalists of Ken, Tom, and Jimbo. Perhaps by necessity (I think it was Tom who said they had a rule - anybody thinks of a new instrument to add to the band, they have to play it)... but it gave the band a unique flavor. Especially on stage, the Chinese fire drills between numbers as everyone switched places and instruments... and watching Ken alternately puffing on alto, bari, and cigarette. The "new" SNZ seems to have been aligned more toward "one person, one instrument" without all the doubling and tripling, and it seems Jimbo has given up trombone since he has added a full time trombonist. I haven't heard the new guy yet, he could be great... but if he had been there all along, would we have had Jimbo's blasting, wobbly, burlesque solo on "That Fascinating Thing"? Yes, most musicians improve at their virtuosity throughout their careers - whether they are self-taught, learned on the street, or college educated. But you will _so_ often hear the statement... about ANYONE "Yeah, he's ok... but I like his early stuff the best". I can say that about a great many jazz musicians (including Ellington)... and quite a few pop artists as well. Heck, I've been an Elton John fan since the 1970's - the "golden years" of about 72-75, but only recently discovered a monster song on his first USA released album which for some reason I never owned before. It just blows away the stuff that he is doing now. I think musicians grow more virtuossic but perhaps less passionate as time goes on. This is one reason why I can appreciate Tom's comment about "not practicing too much" which I think is somewhat rhetorical. My take on it is that he wants to keep doing new things all the time, instead of repeating himself. I hope he continues along this path. I can relate to Tom, having a house full of instruments and eyeing more all the time... but I am totally devoid of his talent for creating a masterpiece like "Uptown Stomp" or "Caveat Emptor". Given sufficient time, I could pick up any wind instrument (I've never been caught with a pick in my hand, and not likely to start) and play along with Tom & Ken & Julius & Duke (well ok, even if I can hit Duke's notes they'll sound like a pinched sphincter) but to create it out of thin air as these guys do... no way. That's why I hope they keep doing it and never do fall into a rut. As to the new SNZ, I will find out shortly... just bought an advance CD of "Bedlam Ballroom" on Ebay for 20 bucks. I figure its worth a few extra bucks to get a 3-week jump. After all look what it cost me to get the 6-month jump on Samsara :-) (worth it, too). Andy ------------------------------ End of the-landing-digest V3 #130 *********************************