From: owner-the-landing-digest@smoe.org (the-landing-digest) To: the-landing-digest@smoe.org Subject: the-landing-digest V2 #287 Reply-To: the-landing@smoe.org Sender: owner-the-landing-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-the-landing-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk the-landing-digest Sunday, December 12 1999 Volume 02 : Number 287 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: SNZ NEWS. [Andy Harman ] Ellington (snooooz) [Andy Harman ] Re: Misc. and Ghost..Steven.. video [Koby the Interactive Bear ] Re: Ellington (snooooz) [Andy Harman ] Re: Ellington (snooooz) ["Ryan Sargent" ] Re: Ellington (snooooz) ["Ryan Sargent" ] Re: the-landing-digest V2 #286 [TwoJoplins@aol.com] Re: Ellington (snooooz) [Andy Harman ] Re: Ellington (snooooz) ["Ryan Sargent" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:06:37 -0500 From: Andy Harman Subject: Re: SNZ NEWS. At 06:43 PM 12/9/99 PST, you wrote: > >AHHH!!!! Ellington is a God!!!! You just need to listen to the right >recordings. He wrote more music than any composer that ever lived, more >blues's, you name it he played it. And he did do many soundtracks to many >cartoons. He also did an album with Louis. I have been listening to a few tracks of Ellington from "Black Brown Beige" the 3-CD boxed set. So far, I have to take back what I said about even liking his stuff.. IMO the man couldn't jump if he was on fire. This is the most BORING stuff I've ever heard. Nicely done, but it puts me to sleep! And the "blah-blah" business with the trombone is almost as lame as Peter Frampton's bla-blah guitar from 40-something years later. I can hear there are some good tunes underneath all this... but the execution is sterile. I'd rather listen to Glenn Miller, in all honesty. OTOH, almost any of these Ellington tunes has potential to be really set on fire by almost anyone. I discovered this with an old Steely Dan album, where Walter Becker playes "East St. Louis Toodle-oo" on electric guitar... and it's great!! He also injects some TEMPO into it. I know this will step on toes especially since so many of the musicians I like really idolize Ellington as well. Not the first time this has happened... Chuck Berry was inspired by Muddy Waters... guess who I'd MUCH rather listen to? Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:09:58 -0500 From: Andy Harman Subject: Ellington (snooooz) Oh yes... you mentioned "the right recordings"... can you name a specific tune that might stand a chance with me? :-) Will save me a lot of time with this huge 3-cd set! Anybody else bored by Duke Ellington? Don't be afraid... hey I thought of another one... Stevie Wonder wrote "Sir Duke" as a tribute... IMO a better song than most of this funeral stuff I'm listening to... Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 12:02:06 -0500 From: Koby the Interactive Bear Subject: Re: Misc. and Ghost..Steven.. video On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:49:51 PST, you wrote: > BY THE WAY, (after that angry sidenote) DOES ANYONE HAVE A COPY >(PROMOTIONAL, MAYBE?) OF THE VIDEO FOR the ghost of steven foster? I REALLY >want a video copy of this that I can show to my friends, but I see no chance >of it being released on video, and I was wondering if someone would make me >a copy of the video. I'd of course pay for it, as long as it's reasonable. >CAN ANYONE HELP ME????? online, at http://www.spumco.com/entertainment/snz/index.html - - Peter Destructo "Ever made it with a chick who can defy the laws of gravity?" - Falcon 7 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:49:09 PST From: "Ryan Sargent" Subject: Re: Ellington (snooooz) Not only do you not no what the hell you are talking about musically speaking (with the TEMPO comment) but its obvious you don't now anything about jazz music. First off let me tell you that you are listening to one of Duke's sacred concerts. Which means it was written as a LONG piece to tell a story. It's not a one song CD! What I mean by that is the whole thing is a piece, not individual songs done in the big band style. And its not for the people trying to get familiar with Duke's work. If you really want to hear well done up versions of some of his greatest stuff listen to "Swingin' with Duke: live in swing city" played by Wynton Marsalis and the Lincoln Center Jazz Orchestra. Its not Ellington's band playing, but its the best your gonna get to hear his sound on good recordings. But as far as Duke's own CD's, Check out "Three Suites". This is Duke's arrangement of the Nutcracker suite...and it is the most swingin' thing you will hear. (make sure you listen to the overture, Peanut Brittle Brigade, Entr'acte, and The Volga Vouty (Russian Dance). If these don't do anything for you then...I'm sorry, there is no hope for you. And as far as Glenn Miller goes, no Duke...no Glenn. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 17:07:57 -0500 From: Andy Harman Subject: Re: Ellington (snooooz) At 01:49 PM 12/11/99 PST, you wrote: >Not only do you not no what the hell you are talking about musically >speaking (with the TEMPO comment) but its obvious you don't now anything >about jazz music. I'm sorry, I'm not going to stand here and be ridiculed just because I don't like one of your sacred cows. I think I adequately explained myself. Personal tastes have very little to do with intelligence or knowledge for that matter. If you can drop the cheap shots maybe we can have a conversation, but for now I'm out of here. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:28:45 PST From: "Ryan Sargent" Subject: Re: Ellington (snooooz) And by the way "The Mooche" off of Samsara is Ellington's song. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 14:45:13 PST From: "Ryan Sargent" Subject: Re: Ellington (snooooz) >I'm sorry, I'm not going to stand here and be ridiculed just because >I >don't like one of your sacred cows. I think I adequately >explained >myself. Personal tastes have very little to do with >intelligence or >knowledge for that matter. If you can drop the >cheap shots maybe we can >have a conversation, but for now I'm out of >here. Actually, it's not about you not liking him...thats fine. It's about whenever anybody disrespects one of the greatest minds of 20th century music (saying he couldn't jump if he was on fire...which shows you know nothing about duke by itself) if it be Duke, Louis, Diz, or whoever- it is proof that they don't now much about jazz because jazz IS giving respect where respect is due. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 19:55:46 EST From: TwoJoplins@aol.com Subject: Re: the-landing-digest V2 #286 Saw Mr. Bird last night. Boy oh Boy was he in top form. Great show, great show, great show. I hope he comes around to Hoboken more often. I had the flu... and I forgot I was sick. Insane! I heard that Bird was shy... but jeeeez... he really is SHY. I got his autograph on that zany poster with the drawing of him with his neck broken, slammed on the floor with the violin flying in the air. I also got a copy of Q6 - that is great stuff! Colin sure has a set of lungs on him! Was anyone else @ Maxwells? Did anyone get to go to the Mercury Lounge? Phil ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:32:34 -0500 From: Andy Harman Subject: Re: Ellington (snooooz) At 02:45 PM 12/11/99 PST, you wrote: > >Actually, it's not about you not liking him...thats fine. It's about >whenever anybody disrespects one of the greatest minds of 20th century music Just an opinion, as is yours. >about duke by itself) if it be Duke, Louis, Diz, or whoever- it is proof >that they don't now much about jazz because jazz IS giving respect where >respect is due. I thought jazz was a style of music, I didn't know it required genuflection. Ellington was a great composer, as I've said I've heard many great renditions of his songs and even played some. I can't put my finger on what is missing from his performances... there is nothing "bad" there really, but nothing to grab me either. And looking over the credits on Black/Brown/Beige I see many familiar names, including some who played with Goodman and I always thought Benny was hot enough to burn the paint off the walls. Ellington's tenor sax player on several of the numbers sounds wonderful... a very unique sound and this is the guy I've been looking for, the one who I think Cecil Johnson (from Jazz Squad) got his sound from. Maybe Ellington is _too_ tight, too virtuossic, I don't know. Almost any word I can think of to describe it I can also apply the same word to something I love. And you would not expect one of the revered jazz greats of the 20th century to be an aquired taste. I have a few of those in music - people I used to dislike or even hate, that I now like (in some cases a lot) but they are pretty rare. I count among them the Rolling Stones (used to think they sounded like kids banging on trash cans with no sense of melody, now I absolutely love the "garage" sound especially of the early stuff, and their crackling, dissonant harmonies) and Joni Mitchell (used to think she was pretentious, boring, neurotic, and self-conscious, now I think she's poetic, eclectic, neurotic, and sometimes too close to home). Some mainstream tastes I've never aquired: Led Zeppelin (pretentious and boring); Steve Miller (one of the worst songwriters of the century, pretentious and lame). Yet I can turn those negatives around... how about Steely Dan, can't get any more pretentious and yet I have every album and have always loved their stuff. There is another prolific and popular songwriter whose work I often enjoy and respect, yet I wouldn't go out of my way to hear him perform and in fact I'm likely to turn the radio off: Barry Manilow. He has written some _great_ songs over the years but his voice sounds like the gym teacher on the PA system. Re. Duke and Glenn... I've probably played more Miller charts than Ellington... for the most part the Miller stuff isn't that complicated. When I was in high school we did a pay gig with our big band to raise money for a trip to a jazz festival we were going to... for a bunch of retired teachers (this was early 70's). We played a bunch of 40's stuff for them, and basically learned it all in one long rehearsal. As to my music/jazz knowledge, I have none... only experience. Never been to music school, but I doubt if a PhD would change my opinion... might even make it worse if I was forced to study stuff in great detail that usually puts me to sleep . Andy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 21:24:49 PST From: "Ryan Sargent" Subject: Re: Ellington (snooooz) >I thought jazz was a style of music, I didn't know it required > >genuflection. It's way more than a style of music. Besides what I already said, it teaches you to think across a longer than twenty-five second form. Second, it teaches you how to communicate with others. Third, it makes you develop your personality through practice and contemplation. And fourth, it puts you in contact with some of the greatest musical minds of the twentieth century. >I always thought Benny was hot enough to burn the paint of the >walls. Benny was good, no doubt about that, except he at any moment would tell you that he wouldn't be there without Duke. And almost all the big band leaders as well as individual musicians (Louis, Miles, Wynton, etc...) have said we should all thank Duke for what he gave to the music. And most of the songs Benny was famous for were either Fletcher Henderson, Jelly roll Morton, or in some cases Louis Prima tunes. And Duke Heitger is imitating Bubber Miley and Cootie Williams with the growling plunger, both from Ellington's band. And one of tracks on samsara he imitates Louis Armstong from the Hot 5's and 7's days. >Ellington's tenor sax player on several of the numbers sounds >wonderful... That would be my favorite sax...Johnny "Rabbit" Hodges. I'm sorry. I think I've turned used this list as my Duke awareness forum. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of the-landing-digest V2 #287 *********************************