From: owner-sycophant-digest@smoe.org (sycophant-digest) To: sycophant-digest@smoe.org Subject: sycophant-digest V3 #107 Reply-To: sycophant@smoe.org Sender: owner-sycophant-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-sycophant-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk sycophant-digest Thursday, October 15 1998 Volume 03 : Number 107 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: sycophant Bravo Kimberly! [marc.tobolski@cableone.net] sycophant don't think this went thru yesterday [marc.tobolski@cableone.ne] Re: sycophant Bravo Kimberly! -Reply [Kimberly Hansen Well let's not jump all over Alannis - even though I wouldn't mind (bad pun > huh?) It's not her fault that the masses of sheep swallowed up her LP. It did > have some good songs though. She wrote from her heart, same as Lisa. I'm sure > she had no idea that Jagged Little Pill was going to make her so much ca$h. > Whatever. I'd LIKE to agree, but where Lisa writes all of her own songs, Alanis just made up some words to go with songs written by whatsisname, used to play in the Chili Peppers and Jane's Addiction. Dave Navarro! THAT'S his name! So yeah, not exactly the same thing. God help me I DO like some of her (their) songs, though (but damn it, NONE of that stuff is ironic -- it's all just depressing, but NOT ironic). My 2 cents, --Matt J - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 06:00:46 -0700 From: marc.tobolski@cableone.net Subject: sycophant don't think this went thru yesterday I felt the email dealt in broad generalities, and that is why I chose to state my opinion. Would we want her to have broad/mass appeal? Sure! Why not? If you think she has to compromise her music to do that, you are right. Will that happen? I don't think so. Will the musical tastes of the mass market change to give her greater exposure? Highly unlikely. Titanic soundtrack? Well, if her music/style fits to a certain type of film, etc. then why not? Ummm...Lisa does do extended remix versions of her songs. Even dance mixes. Check out the Lovesick CD single. Or the Inconsiderate Bitch EP. Are these attempts at broadening her appeal or merely artistic stretches? As far as stadiums go...hey, if she can fill one, GREAT! I had to endure the pain of seeing Lili Haydn as warm-up for Plant/Page. Talk about oil & vinegar. Who would subject themselves to such abuse? Makes about as much sense as having Hendrix open for the Monkees. As for "name dropping" (shopped for mangoes together, picked china patterns, whatever), that is not my bag. If it is yours, fine. Ellington is a musical master. So was Gershwin. And Brian Wilson. Cash (johnny?) & LG aren't in the same league. Let's be realistic. Also, the latest swing revival was happening enough to SPAWN a commercial; the commercial did not create or give credence to a bubbling-under fad. Cherry Poppin' Daddies had been releasing their version of alterna-swing for years, along with many others. The GAP is/was riding a wave. And those same folks are still line-dancing, trust me. I hope that Lisa is as successful as she wants to be. If the fan base expands 100-fold it would be a treasure for HER. That is what I hope. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org []On Behalf Of Kimberly Hansen Marc, I don't think that Michael was making absolute statements in his email. Please note, he did say "fairly unknown" and "some performers...". Why you chose to think this was some sort of a blanket statement is beyond me. Regardless, I have to agree that Lisa is "fairly" unknown in the States. I live in one of the largest cities in the country and when Lisa tours here she plays the smallest clubs. I will say that I think "people in the know" - know who Lisa Germano is. But face it, Lisa isn't a household name. And would we want her to be?????? Would you want her contributing songs to the Titanic soundtrack? This is part of what makes Lisa a treasure. I enjoy the fact that she's not playing large stadiums....or turning "Wood Floors" into an extended version dance track to appeal to the general populous. I consider myself lucky to see her fingers on the piano and stand next to her at the bar after the show - and let her bum a cigarette off me. Does that mean that I don't like musicians of world acclaimed fame? Hell no! I'll put my alt-rock attitude aside to wait in line for U2 tickets...I'll pay a ridiculous amount of money to tour Graceland, and I'll never throw my Ella albums away!!!!!! An artist can be a treasure for many reasons. Sometimes it's nice that a musician you happen to like isn't all that famous. Just look what the hell that Gap commercial did to swing. The people that were country line dancing just 5 years ago, are now perfecting their box step at the local community college....just waiting to jump, jive on the next bandwagon. Alas, some of us will just stand back and know that Ellington is as good as Cash or Germano and always will be. Those who have respect for musicians of all degrees of fame hold the key to the treasure chest. Kimberly >>> 10/13/98 07:57am >>> Fairly unknown? By what standards? Her work with Mellencamp gave her a lot of exposure, along with at least some cachet with Rolling Stone (for whatever that is worth). Her releases are reviewed by many music mag's here in the states, but she doesn't have a lot of commercial appeal. And that is also true of her releases outside the US. Look for a review (scathing & brief) on the Toronto Sun site: A treasure? Is an artist no longer a treasure if they have mass appeal? Damn, those worthless Ellington & Gershwin records must go in the trash now... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org []On Behalf Of MAustin802@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 5:04 AM To: sycophant@smoe.org Subject: Re: sycophant Hello ! Lisa is still a fairly unknown performer in the States. that's not a bad thing. some performers are like treasures, not meant for the general populous. Try the Gemm site, which is basically a site that is a browser for many internet music sources, they also do most of the ordering for you. GEMM.com, you can find some very interesting things there. Michael Marc Tobolski Division Marketing Director CableONE (602)364-6366 voice (602)364-6766 fax Visit me at CubeCam! http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:05:35 -0500 From: Kimberly Hansen Subject: Re: sycophant Bravo Kimberly! -Reply Regarding Alanis, I am filled with the same vehemence as you. As I truly do not know...does Alanis play any instruments or how much of the music does she write? And those lyrics..... She just seems so phony. I imagine -and could be wrong- a bunch of record execs had a round table to figure out what the youth of today would like and devised her. When alternative music goes out of style, will she still be 'following her heart'? Will she just disappear? Will she just adapt to whatever the new fad is? Wasn't she a big haired mall chick? And how bout those gymnastics she does in that video....right. Give me Kim Deal, Liz Phair (and I starting to question her), or PJ Harvey any day. (We can assume I'd put Lisa first, of course) I don't think I'm spelling her name right...and my lack of respect for her is keeping me from finding out the proper spelling. >>> "Rob Hermann, Wash U, History" 10/13/98 10:00pm >>> Um, I apologize, but I reserve the right to jump all over Alanis, because she is exactly the sort of calculating, pander-to-the-masses, jump-on-the-right-bandwagon greedhead I have always despised. I know that sounds elitist and horrible, but, really, all you have to do is listen to her first two albums (which I have, erk) and you'll realize that all that's going on in Jagged Little Pill is Alanis putting together "grunge" and "angry white female", two concepts guaranteed to make money, and blending them into such a bland patina that everyone could sing along, once the radio edited out the swear words. Of course, even then I'm giving her too much credit; so much of Jagged Little Pill is the producer (Alanis live is a horror beyond all comprehension) I often don't know where Alanis is in all that. Nor do I want to. Sing from the heart? Alanis? "Head over feet" was only put on the album after her record company said "Hey, Alanis, you're too angry here. You need some sort of sensitive ballad type thing". Again, I apologize for this rant, and for any Alanis lovers I have offended. I'm sure I will now get flamed, as I did for my mellencamp comments a while back. I just happen to think that CDs cost enough; we should, as consumers, get more out of them than cynical calculation, pandering, and (in Alanis's case) truly bad grammar and worse singing. Whatever else you can say about mellencamp, he knows how to use a dictionary. Robin Hermann Office: 935-7341 Department of History Home: 361-6634 Washington University email:rhermann@artsci.wustl.edu Web:www.artsci.wustl.edu/~rhermann - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "History has to live with what was here, clutching and close to fumbling all we had-- it is so dull and gruesome how we die, unlike writing, life never finishes". - --Robert Lowell, "History" On Tue, 13 Oct 1998 Venmlegion@aol.com wrote: > Well let's not jump all over Alannis - even though I wouldn't mind (bad pun > huh?) It's not her fault that the masses of sheep swallowed up her LP. It did > have some good songs though. She wrote from her heart, same as Lisa. I'm sure > she had no idea that Jagged Little Pill was going to make her so much ca$h. > Whatever. > -Brian > > > > ------- > The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ > ------- > To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: > unsubscribe sycophant > > If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, > they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list > address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before > unsubbing. > > - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 10:25:41 -0400 From: Joe_Horne@matrixresources.com Subject: sycophant alanis m is like a cow growing strong just for now I'm sorry....I just couldn't help myself......It is difficult (read: impossible) to take Alanis seriously. She is without a doubt a media creation, the epitome of a "sell out." There is no soul or spirit in what she does. As Joni Mitchell says "the whiny white kids....genuine junkfood for juveniles..." in her new piece "Taming the Tiger" It's nice to see the Lisa group discussing stuff. Later! - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 09:22:49 -0500 From: Kimberly Hansen Subject: sycophant don't think this went thru yesterday -Reply Name dropping? Puhleese... You couldn't be more than wrong. All I was saying (if you're referring to meeting Lisa) was that I THINK it's nice when artists you happen to respect - are not all that famous... As a fan, it makes being able to see them live easier... and I only mentioned meeting her to reiterate that if she were a big star...it wouldn't have happened...If I truly wanted to name drop I could,...but that isn't my style nor what defines my life. I agree, I want what Lisa wants..if she want's to sell out stadiums, etc..Fine..I probably won't go...but good for her. We're talking hypothetically though...because it probably isn't going to happen. The swing thing? I don't think I said The Gap invented it...but if you want to take things out of context for the sake of being argumentative - do it with someone else. I think I was just trying to illustrate how so many people in our society flock to something because it's so hyped in the media... yet rarely, truly know a whole lot about it or actually like it for what it is. Guess that's called a fad, eh? Keep smilin', Kimberly >>> 10/14/98 08:00am >>> I felt the email dealt in broad generalities, and that is why I chose to state my opinion. Would we want her to have broad/mass appeal? Sure! Why not? If you think she has to compromise her music to do that, you are right. Will that happen? I don't think so. Will the musical tastes of the mass market change to give her greater exposure? Highly unlikely. Titanic soundtrack? Well, if her music/style fits to a certain type of film, etc. then why not? Ummm...Lisa does do extended remix versions of her songs. Even dance mixes. Check out the Lovesick CD single. Or the Inconsiderate Bitch EP. Are these attempts at broadening her appeal or merely artistic stretches? As far as stadiums go...hey, if she can fill one, GREAT! I had to endure the pain of seeing Lili Haydn as warm-up for Plant/Page. Talk about oil & vinegar. Who would subject themselves to such abuse? Makes about as much sense as having Hendrix open for the Monkees. As for "name dropping" (shopped for mangoes together, picked china patterns, whatever), that is not my bag. If it is yours, fine. Ellington is a musical master. So was Gershwin. And Brian Wilson. Cash (johnny?) & LG aren't in the same league. Let's be realistic. Also, the latest swing revival was happening enough to SPAWN a commercial; the commercial did not create or give credence to a bubbling-under fad. Cherry Poppin' Daddies had been releasing their version of alterna-swing for years, along with many others. The GAP is/was riding a wave. And those same folks are still line-dancing, trust me. I hope that Lisa is as successful as she wants to be. If the fan base expands 100-fold it would be a treasure for HER. That is what I hope. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org []On Behalf Of Kimberly Hansen Marc, I don't think that Michael was making absolute statements in his email. Please note, he did say "fairly unknown" and "some performers...". Why you chose to think this was some sort of a blanket statement is beyond me. Regardless, I have to agree that Lisa is "fairly" unknown in the States. I live in one of the largest cities in the country and when Lisa tours here she plays the smallest clubs. I will say that I think "people in the know" - know who Lisa Germano is. But face it, Lisa isn't a household name. And would we want her to be?????? Would you want her contributing songs to the Titanic soundtrack? This is part of what makes Lisa a treasure. I enjoy the fact that she's not playing large stadiums....or turning "Wood Floors" into an extended version dance track to appeal to the general populous. I consider myself lucky to see her fingers on the piano and stand next to her at the bar after the show - and let her bum a cigarette off me. Does that mean that I don't like musicians of world acclaimed fame? Hell no! I'll put my alt-rock attitude aside to wait in line for U2 tickets...I'll pay a ridiculous amount of money to tour Graceland, and I'll never throw my Ella albums away!!!!!! An artist can be a treasure for many reasons. Sometimes it's nice that a musician you happen to like isn't all that famous. Just look what the hell that Gap commercial did to swing. The people that were country line dancing just 5 years ago, are now perfecting their box step at the local community college....just waiting to jump, jive on the next bandwagon. Alas, some of us will just stand back and know that Ellington is as good as Cash or Germano and always will be. Those who have respect for musicians of all degrees of fame hold the key to the treasure chest. Kimberly >>> 10/13/98 07:57am >>> Fairly unknown? By what standards? Her work with Mellencamp gave her a lot of exposure, along with at least some cachet with Rolling Stone (for whatever that is worth). Her releases are reviewed by many music mag's here in the states, but she doesn't have a lot of commercial appeal. And that is also true of her releases outside the US. Look for a review (scathing & brief) on the Toronto Sun site: A treasure? Is an artist no longer a treasure if they have mass appeal? Damn, those worthless Ellington & Gershwin records must go in the trash now... - -----Original Message----- From: owner-sycophant@smoe.org []On Behalf Of MAustin802@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 1998 5:04 AM To: sycophant@smoe.org Subject: Re: sycophant Hello ! Lisa is still a fairly unknown performer in the States. that's not a bad thing. some performers are like treasures, not meant for the general populous. Try the Gemm site, which is basically a site that is a browser for many internet music sources, they also do most of the ordering for you. GEMM.com, you can find some very interesting things there. Michael Marc Tobolski Division Marketing Director CableONE (602)364-6366 voice (602)364-6766 fax Visit me at CubeCam! http://www.cableone.net/tobolski/ - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:31:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt J Subject: RE: sycophant Alanis, Glen Ballard, etc. Wasn't Dave Navarro on the album too? I think he played guitar and wrote a few of the songs. Don't sue me if I'm wrong, though. --Matt J - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 15:33:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt J Subject: Re: sycophant don't think this went thru yesterday On Wed, 14 Oct 1998 marc.tobolski@cableone.net wrote: > As for "name dropping" (shopped for mangoes together, picked china patterns, > whatever), that is not my bag. If it is yours, fine. ???? What is this a reference to? --Matt J - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:24:03 -0700 From: Marc Tobolski Subject: RE: sycophant Alanis, Glen Ballard, etc. Album Credits Lance Morrison Bass Flea Bass Rob Ladd Drums Matt Laug Drums Joel Shearer Guitar Basil Fung Guitar Dave Navarro Guitar (plays only on You Oughta Know) Martha Copeland Guitar Alanis Morissette Harmonica Glen Ballard Keyboards Benmont Tench Organ Glen Ballard Producer All Music Composed by Alanis Morissette & Glen Ballard All Lyrics by Glen Ballard - -----Original Message----- From: Matt J [SMTP:johnsonm@ea.oac.uci.edu] Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 1998 3:31 PM To: sycophant@smoe.org Subject: RE: sycophant Alanis, Glen Ballard, etc. Wasn't Dave Navarro on the album too? I think he played guitar and wrote a few of the songs. Don't sue me if I'm wrong, though. --Matt J - ------- The Ectophile's Guide to Good Music: http://www.smoe.org/ectoguide/ - ------- To unsub, mail majordomo@smoe.org with the message: unsubscribe sycophant If you gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of computers, they would all get AOL accounts and send unsub messages to the list address. AOL users please read the instructions six lines up before unsubbing. ------------------------------ End of sycophant-digest V3 #107 ******************************* ======================================================================== Please send any questions or comments about the list to sycophant-owner@smoe.org