From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #288 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, October 27 2003 Volume 06 : Number 288 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [support-system] the Underwear song Poll [Dan MacDonald ] Re: [support-system] the Underwear song Poll [Kate Stewart Subject: [support-system] the Underwear song Poll O asked: "i'm interested: do people find they still listen to it? do they find their opinions of it changing, for better or worse?" it's become better - only in that it is now one of those albums which will FOREVER remind me of this summer. i popped it on the other day - and i kept getting weird flash backs of me in my backyard and stuff. i think the biggest shocker for me - is that i actually kind of like Why Can't I? now. for real. it was the focal point of my hatred for this album when it was first released, but now whenever it starts, i kinda get that little "awwww...i love this song!" feeling in my stomach. don't ask. however - i am still dead set against "the underwear song". i still think this is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous, annoying and stupid songs ever written. no matter how much the rest of the songs on this album have grown on me - the album itself will forever be scarred by this ghastly thing, ironically titled "favorite". but i hate the song so much, i will only refer to it as "the underwear song". it doesn't deserve to be called by its true name. i almost think it is insulting to listen to - seriously. i mean, the Matrix do have half a brain. they know what sells, they can pump out what the masses (not the loyal fans) want to hear so they can "move units" - but this song was meant for nothing more than the cutting room floor. i can't see anyone - even 13 year old britney spears fans - thinking this song is anything more than stupid. what jackass "genius" gave this song the green light to be on this album??? they could have thrown on Don't Apologize or Insanity - or just gotten rid of it all together, and have one less track on the album. anything would have been better - and it would have preserved at least a TINY BIT more of Liz's integrity as a song writer. quick poll - i have to know - Does anyone on this list like this song? And if you do - i hope i didn't offend you. Maybe i'm just not getting it - and if someone is getting it - - shed a new perspective. What does everyone think of "the Underwear Song"???? enquiring minds want to know, dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:34:21 +0000 From: "over pavema" Subject: [support-system] top 10 fever katie wrote: >Can't wait to start >on the top ten of the year we do every year, it's >coming up! yeah, me too. it'll be interesting to see how many people list "L/P" as one of their top-10 titles. as for the insight into 'red light fever', i think that song is about someone who is both extremely judgemental, and too insecure to actually do anything him/herself, probably out of fear that others will be just as judgemental. so, they are always critical, but never risk trying to accomplish anything. at the roseland or 930 show, she introduced it by saying, 'this song is about a very bad person.' so, it *could* be autobiographical, i suppose, but probably not consciously so. i just assumed it was an ex-wife passing judgement on her ex-husband, who may or may not be a tool, but the ex-wife is rarely in the best position to judge. unlike in the movies, these things rarely happen because one person is so wonderful and the other person is so evil. which is why 'divorce song' seems more honest to me. but, for all i know, "RLF" really is about liz herself, which would make her concert intro a bit strange. o _________________________________________________________________ Want to check if your PC is virus-infected? Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:42:36 -0800 (PST) From: Kate Stewart Subject: Re: [support-system] the Underwear song Poll I think anyone with half a brain would hate that song. To me, Why Can't I, Rock Me and Favorite are the ultimate triumvirate of evil- the dark underworld of the music industry. Why Can't I and Rock me are just utterly lame and bad, but Favorite somehow goes above and beyond that. I remember her talking about it before she played at the St. Louis show this summer- she said something about her old pair of red underwear and how "we" (I assume her and the Matrix) thought it would be the "perfect metaphor" for a relationship. I can't believe such an intelligent person can stoop to that kind of crap and pretend to take it seriously. I think she must have some idea of how lame it is- didn't she say that she cringes when she sings it? I remember the first few times I heard it, I wondered if it was kind of a parody of a Britney/Christina pop song- like something Weird Al would do. I could imagine her doing that- sort of like "That's the way I like it" and some other parody stuff she has done. But sadly (incredibly sadly), it ain't. And added to the disappointment when I figured out that HWC has no irony in it all, it was kind of a double whammy, a new low. Do I listen to the new album at all? I stopped listening to it about 2 weeks after I got it in March. If it wasn't for the EP (which I listen to all the time) I would be boycotting Liz. Fortunately I've found some other really good bands that will tie me over until Liz makes a comeback- in 10 years maybe? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:28:41 -0600 From: Margery Reese Pepper Subject: [support-system] good music for anyone else looking for good music, may i recommend postal service (if you're going to download one song, try brand new colony) neutral milk hotel (one song, try two headed boy) rilo kiley (one song, try better son or daughter) these are my most recent obsessions. - -reese ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:48:00 -0500 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] Re: the Underwear song Poll > From: Dan MacDonald > quick poll - i have to know - Does anyone on this list like this song? And if > you do - i hope i didn't offend you. Maybe i'm just not getting it - and if > someone is getting it - shed a new perspective. What does everyone think of > "the Underwear Song"???? I'm glad you asked. ;^) I think it's shite, but I must admit that I waver between TUS (The Underwear Song) or Rock Me being the bigger steaming pile of ox poop. One minor annoyance in a song full of so *many* annoyances is that Liz pronounces all her L's in that really cloying way that people sometimes do...does anyone know what I'm talking about? Am I the only one who notices this? I think she does it in a couple of the other Matrix songs, too (it's like, her fake voice for the industry tracks or something), but it's really glaring on TUS. But beyond hating it, I kind of see (believe it or not) what the Matrix's calculation was. Everybody wears underwear, so it's a relatable topic. But it's targeted specifically at teenage girls because they're obsessed with their underwear. I swear. In adolescense, buying one's own underwear is a huge deal, because it's a way to start to define your own sexuality. Instead of those cotton jobbies with the elastic waist at the belly button that you wore as a girl, you start buying bikinis which stop at the hips or nowadays (yecch!) you might get a thong. (Though why one would WANT to have a wedgie all day long is truly beyond me... this fashion definitely passed me by. All that bullshit about "no pantylines" is such a crock... girls really just want their asscheeks to poke out THAT badly. You can't tell me it has anything to do with comfort. But I digress...) Instead of white with a little cloud motif or pastels, you start buying reds and purples and emerald greens and black. And even silk and lace and all that fetishistic nonsense. And you compare your underwear with that of other girls and you joke about it and it's often a topic of conversation. Underwear is fun. And it makes you feel grown up. And then you get a little older and you start to realize that sometimes sexy underwear isn't worth it, because lace itches like a bastard and a synthetic crotch can give you a yeast infection, etc. and so you start to shop for underwear a bit more prudently. But there's always that happy medium, that one pair of underwear that is both comfortable but also gives one's hips and snatch a very sexy appearance. And you wear that pair to disintegration and then wait for a new pair to again become your favorites. I'm sure all this must sound like I've drunk the TUS Kool-Aid. I haven't, but even while I was gagging the first time I heard it, I knew instantly what the idea behind it was. She was pulling a "hey girls, we've all had this experience haven't we? I'm one of you..." move. That doesn't change the fact that it's a leaden metaphor and it's crass and the lyrics are boring and Liz sounds bored when she's singing it. Ugh: "like you did, like you did / like before, like before / like we will, like we will / be doin' it once more!" Oh, author, author! Take a bow, jackasses. :rollseyes: Anyway, that's my take on The Underwear Song. - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 23:49:54 -0500 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: Re: [support-system] top 10 fever > From: "over pavema" > as for the insight into 'red light fever', i think that song is about > someone who is both extremely judgemental, and too insecure to actually do > anything him/herself, probably out of fear that others will be just as > judgemental. so, they are always critical, but never risk trying to > accomplish anything. Gosh, that's me. 8-| ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 21:17:38 -0400 From: Sean Murdock Subject: [support-system] Re: "Liz Phair" reconsidered "over pavema" writes: >the "Liz Phair" cd popped up on my cd changer in the car the other day, and >i mostly let it play through. but i realized that i hadn't listened to it >in 6 or 8 weeks, and i didn't miss it. 'love/hate' is still my favorite, >and 'it's sweet' is good, and 'friend of mine'. but most of it had no >impact, removed from the 'newness' of listening to it in, say, june. it's >been out for 4 months now. i'm interested: do people find they still >listen to it? do they find their opinions of it changing, for better or >worse? Although my emotions have cooled somewhat, my gut feeling about LIZ PHAIR remains that it was a transparent, almost desperate attempt to market Liz to the Avril Levigne crowd. Despite Liz's protests to the contrary, the combination of the Matrix tracks, the cheesecake photos, and the fake "corporate grunge" album artwork all scream out: "Look at me! I'm old but I'm still cool and naughty!" The fact that the Parental Advisory "sticker" was actually incoroprated into the cover art as an "edgy" ink stamp betrays how shamelessly Capitol (and, implicitly, Liz herself) are trying to push the "hot pottymouth" image and suppressing (or ignoring) the continuing development of a legitimate talent. The shame of it is that there is some truly excellent Liz Phair music on the record, and with a little reworking LP could be a competent successor to WCSE. Here are my own thoughts on the original album, followed by my own version of Liz's fourth album. Your opinion may differ, obviously. Liz Phair: LIZ PHAIR Capitol Records *** (out of 5 stars) (1) EXTRAORDINARY: Gets the album off to a bad start, with the off-putting corporate-metal guitar riffs and the "shame on you for not realizing how great I am" stink of the Matrix lyrics. (I'm sorry, but when there are four songwriters listed on a song and you're *fourth*, you didn't do much of the writing. That's a good thing in this case, I suppose, but Liz has praised these songs, so she has to take a hit here.) Don't get me started on the "average everyday sane psycho supergoddes" chorus, which sounds like a line Meredith Brooks would be too proud to sing. Ouch. (2) RED LIGHT FEVER: I hated this song at first, but it has grown on me. When listening casually, I thought *Liz* was pining to be in "a place in your heart," which triggered my gag reflex. But when I listened closely and realized she was chastizing her fella for closing himself off emotionally and being "scared" to look inside *his own* heart, it gave the song a lot more depth. The track is slickly produced, but I've never been one to insist that Liz stay lo-fi, as long as the production is tasteful and the song is good. This song is good. (3) WHY CAN'T I: Certainly this song will be looked back on as the "Ground Zero" of Liz's career meltdown. I hate to say I found it irresistable at first, in the same sickening, embarrassing way that I liked "Complicated" for about two weeks. The two are extremely close in sound, structure and production, and if WCI had been the lead track from Avril's next album, it wouldn't seem so noxious. But it has no place being a Liz Phair song. The calculated use of the "f" word is sad and unecessary. (I'm no vocabulary prude -- "Fuck and Run" is one of my favorite songs of all time, and vulgarity can be very powerful if it has a purpose. Example: The Eels' "It's A Motherfucker") Liz's absolute inability to perform this song convincinly live shows what an artificial confection it is. A sure way to spot a quality Liz song is that it will sound just as good solo acoustic as it does on the record. "Why Can't I" fails miserably. Sounds oddly cutting-edge piped into my local Stop-N-Shop, though. (4) IT'S SWEET: Finally, at track 4, we get a song worthy of being part of the "continuing story" of Liz's development as a songwriter and recording artist. Would have fit just fine on WCSE. (I know some would consider that damning with faint praise, but I happen to like WCSE.) Cool, quasi-psychedelic backing and "big" production show that Liz can be "produced" and still be good. Again, some deceptive lyrics that require the listener's attention: What I originally heard as "It's sweet ... you're in love with me" -- ick! -- is really "It's sweet that you believe you're in love with me." Nice twist, and a very good (not great) song. (5) ROCK ME: This song is, to me, Exhibit A for why Liz is risking losing all her credibility with the LIZ PHAIR album, and the Matrix tracks in particular. Here, she sings the praises of some hot-lovin' college age doofus and, in doing so, she casts all her other strong-woman-calling-the-shots songs into doubt. So "young guys rule" now, eh, Liz? Tell me, this X-Box playing stud wouldn't be the kind of guy who would "leave suspicious stains in the sink" and "make rude remarks" about you, would he? I guess not, but then you don't know what he and his roomate are joking about after you leave, do you? This song is the evil twin of "Why Can't I" -- teen girl hears WCI in the supermarket, buys the CD, and when boyfriend hears "Rock Me" he says, "Hey, this Liz Phair is pretty cool," and two more suckers are born. A pox on it. (6) TAKE A LOOK: This is a better, more subtle version of "Extraordinary." The lyrics are in a similar "you wanna piece of me?" vein but don't seem as desperate or self-pitying. Again, the big production is OK, but I prefer the original, quirkier Michael Penn mix, which was released last year on a Capitol promo. I was underwhelmed by this song when I first heard it in 2002, but oh what a difference a year makes! Now one of my favorites. (7) LITTLE DIGGER: I know this song has it's detractors, but to me it's an absolute classic. Anyone who has a five year old song (and I do) knows that sharing your trucks with a stranger is almost like a religious ritual. However, if the guy in Liz's bed is the goofball from "Rock Me," the song veers past "heart-breaking" and into "tragic" territory -- another example of how dreck like "Rock Me" undermine Liz's good songs. (8) FIREWALKER: A hands-down Liz classic. It's got it all: the guitar, the quavering voice, the vulnerable verses and the defiant choruses. "My hopes are like embers lying around inside a firebed/ And your mind is a firewalker it steps on them like they are dead." Wow. You could lock the Matrix in a room with no food for a week and they'd never be able to come up with anything that good. Easily stands up with almost anything else she's ever written. (9) FAVORITE: Ugh. Even Liz feels dirty about this one -- it's the only Matrix track she admits not liking. Enough said. (10) LOVE/HATE: Another stone classic. Rocks really hard, very produced -- and produced by Liz herself! Works on every level: it's musically different from what we're accustomed to but still very "Liz" and the lyrics are full of the kind of detail and nuance we all love. One of the best on the album. (11) H.W.C.: Another song that has divided Liz's fans -- some think it's "proof" that she's still got it, while some think it's a tired exercise in the "pottymouth Liz" genre and particularly inappropriate considering you're marketing yourself to 15-year-old girls. I'm in the latter camp. (I've never been a fan of Liz's "look-at-me-I'm-horny" songs like "Flower" or "Chopsticks", so I'll admit a bias here.) It's a shame it's the catchiest damn song on the album, right down to the Exile-esque harmonica. (12) MY BIONIC EYES: Another big-production rocker, and another winner. We get a taste of Liz's delicious lower-register singing when she swoops down for "I scored again last night..." I can't say much else about it, other than it belongs with "Love/Hate," "Firewalker" and "Little Digger" as the true indicators of where Liz should be heading following WCSE. (13) FRIEND OF MINE: Decent song, good penultimate track for the album, a notch below the songs I just praised above. (14) GOOD LOVE NEVER DIES: Works well as the last track, although it doesn't say a whole lot, and the brief spoken interlude is strange and distracting. BONUS EP TRACKS: (1) JEREMY ENGLE: Nice character study in the vein of "Uncle Alvarez." I enjoy it, but I understand why it doesn't fit on the album. (2) BOUNCER'S CONVERSATION: Great song, and a good example of how "foul" language can be used to great effect. Perfect minimalist production. (3) FINE AGAIN: Nice acoustic ballad; could easily have been on LP if she wasn't so determined to release a "rawkin'" album. I'd love to hear the version of the record she originally submitted to Capitol, the one the execs said was very good, critic-friendly, but not a big seller. Since LP probably won't even go "gold," maybe someday we'll hear this original lineup. (4) HURRICANE CINDY: Eh ... It's OK, I guess. Ripping on supermodels is a bit too easy though, isn't it? (5) SHALLOW OPPORTUNITIES: Terrific song! Shoulda been the title of the album . I wonder if she wrote this before or after working with The Matrix... Could be a defense of the whole LP project: I don't have a reason I don't have a plan I operate on instinct I give you the best of me, my sexy sexy slight of hand I'll wait right here til you get back And take my shallow opportunity If you can't guess that I'm hanging out to see What you can do for me, cause you were new to me And that's what this game is all about.... Sorry if that was a tad long-winded; I guess I had a lot of pent-up thoughts on this album. Anyway, I haven't actually listened to LP since July, as I have compiled my own version of Liz's fourth album. THIS album I listen to all the time, and I enjoy it immensely. This isn't really a knock on Liz, just a questioning of some of her choices. After all, 13 of the 15 tracks on my version were officially released by Liz and Capitol Records. The bottom line: There's a great album lurking among the tracks released by Liz Phair in 2003 -- it just isn't the album she released. Here's my version of what she *should* have released: Liz Phair: SHALLOW OPPORTUNITES Capitol Records **** (out of 5 stars) (imho) (1) Take A Look (original promo mix) (2) Red Light Fever (3) Bouncers Conversation (4) It's Sweet (5) Tell Me I'm A Liar (unreleased song leaked on Internet) (6) Firewalker (7) Insanity (outstanding song; available only on iTunes store) (8) Little Digger (9) My Bionic Eyes (10) Fine Again (11) The Rapids Song (unreleased song leaked on Internet) (12) Love/Hate (13) Friend Of Mine (14) Shallow Opportunites (15) Good Love Never Dies This, to me, is a terrific album that any Liz fan would be proud to own. I worked really hard on it, even tweaking the 2 bootleg tracks so they fit better sonically, and it sounds like a "real" album to me, not just a fan's "wishful thinking" collection. I recommend this track list to anyone who has resisted the charms of LP's better cuts. I even made cover art for it, which I will send to anyone who wants it as a PDF file. Thanks for reading, - -- Sean Murdock seanmurd@optonline.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:13:19 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: Re: [support-system] Another Liz Show in Chicago? Liz Phair is opening for Barneaked ladies at the SOLD OUT miracle on state street chicago charity show on december 6th. Oh yeah, Jason Mraz is playing too. ANyone wlse notice that Liz is included on the NOW 14 compliation CD? SHe must have really made it now.... ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #288 ************************************