From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #228 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, August 25 2003 Volume 06 : Number 228 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [support-system] bloodkeeper [Dan MacDonald ] [support-system] sorry, catherine! / lizphair.com ["Michael Honaker" ] [support-system] Chicago Report [TitleTK@aol.com] [support-system] Re: chicago reviews -- from the papers [Catherine Molanp] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 11:25:16 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: [support-system] bloodkeeper u know what's weird? i've heard talk about bloodkeeper for years on this list and i never really got into the song all that much. don't ask why. it's one of those things. i think it's a good song...but i just think there is something that is not all there with the lyrics..i like them, but they just don't click with me. Bars of the Bed however...i can never get enough of this song. i think it's terrifying!! the american national anthem, spliced with bits of a woman telling her husband she has to work late because she wants to go out. i absolutely love it! but yeah...bloodkeeper... i like the "i'm a wreck i'm a mess i'm insane isn't that what u want me to say" part..but i dunno...just something about the music and the way the rest is put together kinda rubs me the wrong way. i'm excited for the Sly and the Family Stone-ish vibe of a studio version of Don't Apologize though!! anyway, gotta run - liz tomorrow in detroit and i'll be posting a HUGE review and hopefully have a liz + dan photograph to post on the net somewhere!! jase - email me!! dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 16:06:23 -0400 From: "Michael Honaker" Subject: [support-system] sorry, catherine! / lizphair.com C: I typed the "don't patronize..." line without remembering that you forwarded that to the list. I just wasn't paying too much attention that night... but my whole point and response was really about the whole word in general. I don't use it, even though I used it *and* over-used it in my last post just because I could. Has anyone been visiting/using the lizphair.com forum? I was just wondering... I signed up and *tried* to get involved when it opened up, but 50% of the conversation seems to be coming from people that are just now getting interested in Liz (which is probably a fact, and that's good for them) but... I think a lot of them are teenagers. I see no problem in that, because I'm all for Liz getting additional fans... I don't really know their ages really, I'm just assuming. I got a hateful, poorly typed e-mail from someone accusing me of bashing Liz. It was rather funny. I just laughed it off and figured they were 13 years old and hadn't reached the Sarcasm lesson in Hooked On Phonics. So do any SS folk participate over there? There's this thread about "other music" that Liz's fans listen to... I had no idea that people actually still listened to Megadeth...AND Iron Maiden! Is that possible? Those two bands remind me of Junior High and High School. I never listened to them, but there were always people around that did. You couldn't go to one single classroom without seeing someone wearing an Iron Maiden shirt. But, I guess everyone has their own strange tastes. I certainly have mine. Every once in a great while I'll get out the old "Around The World In A Day" LP and play it through a few times. I always get confused when doing so... It's always a hard decision between that, "Easter" and "Horses" (Patti Smith). Usually Patti wins, but sometimes you can't beat an old Prince record when you need background music. - -Michael ==== SUPERNOVA has moved... http://www.fan-sites.org/liz-phair/ The SUPERNOVA Discussion Board... http://supernova.board.dk3.com ==== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:19:50 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] Re: bloodkeeper > From: Dan MacDonald > u know what's weird? i've heard talk about bloodkeeper for years on this list > and i never really got into the song all that much. ..i like them, but > they just don't click with me. That's not weird... it just is. I'll say this... "Bloodkeeper" is one of her songs that I enjoy on sort of a different level than I enjoy a song, like... oh, "Slave" or "Jealousy" for example, if "different level" makes any sense. It's almost not in her genre, but she's *doing* a certain other genre with bloodkeeper and she does it very well. > Bars of the Bed however...i can never get enough of this song. i think > it's terrifying!! the american national anthem, spliced with bits of a > woman telling her husband she has to work late because she wants to go > out. i absolutely love it! I like "Bars of the Bed", too... though I find I have to be in the mood for it. It's so unapologetically cynical... the other night I was thinking about that song... it's so brazen because she's not in any way hiding behind the conceit of it being a "character" she's taking on the voice of in the song, because in the spoken part at the beginning she makes it clear that the "working late" that's going on is at a recording studio! That's not exactly a common, stock job for a woman (or man) to be toiling at. Yeah, it can be an "alternate" self, a stylized fantasy that she's put to music, but the practical side of me still can't help seeing how sentiments like that put on tape, even if only for art's sake, couldn't have been too beneficial for her home life at the time. I'm just sayin'... > i'm excited for the Sly and the Family Stone-ish vibe of a studio version > of Don't Apologize though!! Huh? Sly? Where'd ja hear this? have fun in detroit, dan... - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 21:19:50 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] Re: / lizphair.com > From: "Michael Honaker" > Has anyone been visiting/using the lizphair.com forum? I was just > wondering... I think a few of us are. I'm "Carnivore". What's your screenname? > I signed up and *tried* to get involved when it opened up, but > 50% of the conversation seems to be coming from people that are just now > getting interested in Liz (which is probably a fact, and that's good for > them) but... I think a lot of them are teenagers. I'm filing my whole lizphair.com experience under "Be Careful What You Wish For". I've been hoping and hoping for her to get mainstream exposure, and of course now that it's happening a little, I can't allow myself to gag when people post stuff like "Liz Phair and Aaliyah (sp?) rule!!" I swear I swear, someone posted that. What keeps me going there is the vague thought that maybe someone at Capitol or maybe Liz's manager or Liz herself will check in there from time to time, and I hope they read posts like the one about the demos. (It even crossed my mind that maybe "aquasox", who started that post and still has only one post to their credit, might not be a fan at all but rather someone trying to gauge fan opinion. A girl can dream, yeah?) > I had no idea that people actually still listened to Megadeth...AND Iron > Maiden! Is that possible? Those two bands remind me of Junior High and High > School. I never listened to them, but there were always people around that > did. You couldn't go to one single classroom without seeing someone wearing > an Iron Maiden shirt. I can't tell what's more odious... back in the 80's when those bands were current and hugely popular with lotsa people my age, or now when they are actually considered "the good ol' days of music" by those same bozos now in their thirties. Barf! - --Catherine P.S. Michael: Don't worry about the whole cunt thing... I kinda knew in the back of my mind when I forwarded that to the list that some people would just glance at it quickly and only register that he'd written it, not that I had actually been the one to post it. My fault. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 02:34:13 +0000 From: "over pavema" Subject: [support-system] chicago reviews -- from the papers someone wrote: >>i've been kinda dazed out reading the emails lately cuz i'm soo hyped for >>seeing liz this monday (btw where the hell are the chicago reviews!?!?!) >><< i was wondering the same exact thing. then i saw these two reviews from chicago papers, and realized that maybe the shows were so under-whelming that no one even cared to post about them... http://www.dailyherald.com/search/main_story.asp?intid=37856268 http://www.suntimes.com/output/entertainment/cst-ftr-phair23.html i think the comments about the band are accurate -- the band is not very good or very inspired at all. it is definitely just a job for them. and the arrangements are a bit dim. i would've thought liz would've been more animated and maybe looser in chicago, but it doesn't sound like it, although maybe she had one so-so show and two good ones? well, maybe. in the end, maybe that brian guy was right in questioning my judgement about my review of the 930 club show a week or so ago. maybe it wasn't so much that it was a good show, but more that it was just a *lot* better than the roseland show, so perhaps i was a bit overboard in my enthusiasm... kind of like if your team loses 10-0 one day, and then loses 4-3 the next. you feel like it's showing progress and you allowed fewer runs and scored some yourself...it's all good. then someone points out politely, 'hey, dickhead, you still lost.' also, big thanks to the person at supernova, for posting the regis and kelly and GMA performances on the site. neither is particularly good, but i do like the commentary, where someone mentions the problems in the falsetto portions of the songs. i was wondering that myself (again with the coincidence!). in y can't i and extraordinary, when the studio versions have her going helium-high, that's fine. not great, but it's okay. but in the GMA acoustic versions, or any live version for that matter, since she's not that type of singer, it really sort of spoils the moment. i think that absolutely nothing would be lost if she just sang those lines in her normal range. it would sound better, i'm convinced, more genuine. but i'm still glad i got the chance to see the performances. that's the thing about a performer being a 'pro'. it's all the corny stuff, but if you do it right, it seems natural, and the audience feels like the performer is in control of the performance. part of what we all probably like about liz is her shaky performance style, but she does need to pay a little more attention to how her performance of these songs sounds to the listener. the sheryl crow boot, 'the trinity church concert', has her doing like 10 or 12 songs with acoustic-only backing. what she does with 'my favorite mistake' or 'leaving las vegas' or 'if it makes you happy' or almost any of the others is pretty amazing (why doesn't she ever do 'run baby run', i wonder). they are totally different, melodies moved around, dynamics changed, she just knows her songs and where she can take them so well. then i saw jewel on a re-run of carson daly's nbc show, and again i was amazed at how natural a performer she is, even doing these new, dance-y songs. she was moving on spiked heels, chastizing the audience for not dancing or moving enough DURING the song ('are you all asleep out there, or what?'), then she did some mini-skirt-challenging moves and got some reaction, and then at the end of 'intuition', as they were fading to commercial, she says into the mic, 'it was the butt-roll that got you all, wasn't it? i KNEW it!' i'm not a huge jewel fan, so don't get me wrong. but my point is, you can be a quirky, half-way professional performer and be huge in a sub-culture that embraces and (believes it) understands you. if you're going to play in the majors, though, you need to know how to hit and catch and run and throw and do it all really well, predictably well. and the fans will *expect* you to play well; you're paid well and your a major-leaguer. they're not going to cut you any slack because you wrote some song they lost their virginity to 11 years earlier (and if one more person says one more word about her goddam stage fright, i will lose my effing mind; that was 10 years ago. at this point it's not stage fright, it's just a sort of awkwardness that long-time fans find endearing and newer fans find puzzling). if liz wants to play in the majors, she'll need to sharpen those performing skills and become someone the fans, the label, and her band all know they can rely on. (which is why it was so much better to have buddy judge in her old band, because he knew how to run a band; other than prince, very few bands have a front-man or -woman who runs the band, too. different set of skills and different portions of the ticket price.) plus, she keeps giving those annoying, incoherent interviews (i don't pre-plan, i'm not a pre-planner...and... i'm a very process-oriented person... wha? (ok, in fairness, SHE doesn't pick the quotes that end up in the reporter's story, so i should stop picking on her isolated quotes, and i will. next time. i swear.).) so, the LP is back up to #95, is it? well, it'll be interesting to watch the next 5 or 6 weeks. the back-at-school releases are lining up and the xmas releases aren't far behind. she and capitol have a small window here. after all, there's a new hilary duff cd coming out soon, so the pool is going to get very crowded very soon, and a 4-month-old cd isn't going to be new news to anyone soon. interesting (to me, at least) that michelle branch's new cd, released the same day as liz's cd, is still higher on the charts than liz's cd ever has been. and don't EVEN talk to me about norah jones' cd, which is still top-10... o verboard with the baseball analogies, i realize now... _________________________________________________________________ Help protect your PC: Get a free online virus scan at McAfee.com. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 19:55:11 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Alan Doak" Subject: Re: [support-system] sorry, catherine! / lizphair.com I had no idea that people actually still listened to Megadeth...AND Iron Maiden! Is that possible? Heh, I still listen to both bands. Megadeth just broke up this year after Dave Mustaine injured his hand, and ended his guitar career. :-( Iron Maiden is still rocking, especially with the return of Bruce Dickinson and Adrian Smith. Their last album "Brave New World" was fantastic. They're due for another soon, I'm thinking. :-) j. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:15:12 -0400 From: Jase Subject: [support-system] Detroit show I imagine it's too late now to organize a meeting for list members before or after tomorrow night's show, but if anyone wants to say hi or have a drink after the doors open, I'll be there with fellow list member Dan MacDonald and we are planning to get there early. I shouldn't be hard to find -- look for a mid-20s guy, 5'8", dressed casually (probably jeans and a t-shirt). I'll also be wearing an Ecko hat to make myself easier to spot, although I probably won't wear it for the whole night. Hope to see some of you there. Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:29:27 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: [support-system] Chicago Report Okay, so I went to see all three of the Liz Phair shows at the Metro in Chicago this weekend after already seeing her at the Bowery two weeks ago in New York and all I can say is bleh . . . First of all, the show at the Bowery was much stronger. She seemed honestly excited to be there. She broke out into "Explain it to Me" seemingly because the mood struck her. It was obvious she didn't want to get off the stage. So I thought, wow, when she gets to Chicago she's really gonna let loose! Wrong! The set lists were the same as the Bowery show with the exception of there being no Explain it to Me (despite my pleading). There was very little banter with the audience. She did say it was good to be home. She also told an interesting vignette about coming to the Metro to see Big Black and that experience is what spawned "Glory." Which by the way, was the highlight of her set. With very little back-up and her still slightly off-kilter voice, her rendition of the song was quite haunting and I'd even say better than the recorded version. She played Straford-on-guy by herself each night pretending it wasn't planned. The first two nights she called fans on the stage to sing Flower and the last night she played it by herself. But you know what? I was dead wrong, from now on invite someone to sing it with you. She just walked through it with no passion or meaning. Same goes with most of the old songs. Fuck and Run, Help Me Mary, 6'1'', Never Said . . . they were all sang with this big plastered smile on her face -- she might as well been doing Hanes commercials. Anytime she had the chance to not play the guitar, she would take it, I almost got the impression she was annoyed having to hold it. By the third night she started putting it to her side during the new songs. Now let me say, I am not against Liz Phair, I was very taken with the Bowery show, I think some of the songs on the new album are heartfelt, but the whole Chicago affair was vastly mediocre. As was the opening band . . . Wheat (bleh . . .). As an aside, her parents were at the Friday show and they looked so conservative and cute, watching them watch their daughter was more interesting than watching her myself. And the lead singer of Smashing Pumpkins (Billy Corgan?) was there on Friday as well. All in all, she needs to mix it up a bit, the falseness in her performance was overwhelming. No need to see her more than once. Maybe I'm just spoiled, after following The Breeders around all last summer, where every concert feels like a party in your friends basement, anything might seem less that spectacular. What did everyone else think? Sorry this review was so incomprehensible, but it's late and I just got off the plane. If you want any specifics please ask. james ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2003 23:59:08 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] Re: chicago reviews -- from the papers > From: "over pavema" > ...but i do like the commentary, where someone mentions the problems in the > falsetto portions of the songs. i was wondering that myself (again with the > coincidence!). in y can't i and extraordinary, when the studio versions have > her going helium-high, that's fine. not great, but it's okay. but in the GMA > acoustic versions, or any live version for that matter, since she's not that > type of singer, it really sort of spoils the moment. i think that absolutely > nothing would be lost if she just sang those lines in her normal range. it > would sound better, i'm convinced, more genuine. but i'm still glad i got the > chance to see the performances. I guess you can file me under (2nd time today I've used that phrase in a post here) the fans who find her performing quirkiness endearing. When I heard her do the falsetto thingy on WCI at the Vintage Vinyl in-store show, I was totally charmed by it. I guess because it *is* unexpected and not very smooth sounding, but she hits the note and I like how it knocks the listener out of the monotony of what is, essentially, a very bland song. Come to think of it, I love it *whenever* Liz does awkward vocal gymnastics with her falsetto voice, even in songs that I *like*. It's why I go so gaga for the GS version of Soap Star Joe, because of "they say HE RODE..." and "they say HE'S FA-mous" in that psycho-yelp she uses. Don't get me wrong, I also love her classic, EIG-era flat-voiced deadpan, too. But I find it exciting when she explores her range, too. - --Catherine, who remembers when, at Roseland in '98, Liz actually *did* bust out dancing on WMYH, a la Mzzz. Jewel the Professional ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #228 ************************************