From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #225 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Friday, August 22 2003 Volume 06 : Number 225 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [support-system] Re: support-system-digest V6 #224 [Erin Subject: [support-system] Re: support-system-digest V6 #224 He said: "first of all, what in the hell is this all about? ----> "she does have a dirty mouth though :( i did NOT want my bf listening to her say those things! oh well! *LOL* TAKE KARE, BFF, CLASS OF 08 RULZ!!!" huh? what is that? sorry if i'm out of the loop on what this is supposed to mean, but is this a 13/14 year old? If it is...then I say good luck on the upcoming spelling bee! I just have this gut feeling you'll win...If you're up against...oh...say....dirt. Seriously though...what is that about? Someone said it was a "fake" email...I'm lost. I hate "cyberspeak" and all that "LOL" and "ROTFLMAO" crap. Yuck! Maybe it's because I know people that use terms like "LOL" in everyday vocabulary and it makes me want to strangle them. No, they don't say "Laugh out loud"...they literally fucking say "LOL", and I wish them death." I say: Of course it was "fake e-mail." Are you dense? I thought the list could use some humor what with all of the "EFF YOU CUNT!" "NO, NO, EFF YOOOOU!" But um, maybe it was the alcohol, whatever, I giggled while writing it, so EFF YOU, CUNT! Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 23:24:41 -0700 From: Kenneth Lee Subject: [support-system] News of my demise was premature Chris DeLisle wrote: >what the hell is going on with all these messages from Ken Lee with >attachments? i'm getting plenty of SPAM messages with attachments, myself. >is that this worm virus or something? Apparently someone who has my email address in their address book was/is infected with the virus/worm that's going around (W32/Sobig.F aka Worm.Sobig.F virus). The emails sent to the list weren't from me, just that stupid worm. My email inbox has been deluged with hundreds of these emails with those stupid attachments which I immediately delete upon arrival. Stephanie wrote: >It also sux to see that kenmlee (or someone) has that virus that's going >around. I don't have the virus, thank goodness. Hopefully this crap dies down soon. - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:06:49 -0400 From: -Stephanie- Subject: [support-system] Re: support-system-digest V6 #224 In regards to this from today's digest: >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 02:28:50 -0400 >From: "Michael Honaker" >Subject: [support-system] class of 08 / birthday / that fucking word Hahhaha! This birthday thing is out of control and I hope it dies soon. Maybe CUNT is accepted on this list because Liz has used it in a few of her songs. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 09:17:29 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: [support-system] liz defending record okay..i read that "she's phair game: phair defends her record" article....and i had to comment on this part: liz phair herself says: "I'm working this record entirely differently then I used to work the other ones and they may sense that.I still think that's something more artists should do. More artists should get involved in what happens with their music and what's going on behind the scenes." does she mean get involved by not playing guitar on her own record, go on the song-writing back burner by letting a production team manufacture radio friendly jingles and parading around in panties for the approval of some guy in an office? don't get me wrong - the album has grown on me, but i can't help but feel it's the most liz-removed release in her catalogue. i'm so up and down with it. sometimes i do think "hey - it's just a pop album - some of it VERY VERY good and it's kinda cool, she wants to make money and get on the radio and is being honest about it." then i hear her contradicting herself, talking about how she wants to get off capitol, she wants to go back to indie, if the record flops, she's in a win win situation, how some of the lyrics make her "choke" - then some of the songs are "very close to her heart". i think stuff happened so fast for her - she hardly knows what the hell is going on with it. she sounds more up and down on it than i do. this record - the press, the hilarious quotes liz has given about - could very well be a nervous breakdown put to music. a recorded artistic crisis. whatever - i'll be at the detroit show with bells on and i'll be singing along with every word to Why Can't I.. dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 08:20:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: [support-system] "Liz Phair" jumps back into the Billboard Top 100 Don't see that anyone mentioned this but the album is back in the top 100 at 95. Keeping fingers crossed that it continues to rise. Come on Capitol, right now is the right time to release Extraordinary! :) Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:05:08 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] Re: why waste your time? you know you're gonna be mine > From: "dana p." (quoting me) >>> But don't vilify Liz for *not* being into the social aspect of performing. >>> Or thinking that she "owes" that to people. If a musical artist is truly >>> comfortable with having intimate conversations with total strangers, then I >>> admit to misjudging them with my above "good dog" (tm jeremy) comment. If >>> they're doing it purely to "work the crowd" then I think it's disingenuous. >>> And who's to know which is which? > who cares? "working the crowd" is just part of being PROFESSIONAL. i'm > serious. That's an entirely different argument. Neither Brian nor Jeremy seemed bothered by her lack of professionality, they cited a lack of courtesy and personal decency. My counter-argument to that was that none of her actions were in any way discourteous given the lack of true personal involvement one has with a stranger. If you want to argue that Liz is a very unprofessional performer, I'll grant you that with bells on. There's plenty of very able, smooth, affable, "professional" performers out there whose music does nothing for me. I didn't start listening to Liz because of her on-stage persona... did you? > the other point i'm making is that, from strictly a business standpoint, her > aloofness, which i'm assuming she thinks is funny and/or "cool," Why do you assume that? > ok, fine, maybe she doesn't "owe" the fans any shout-outs, but how the hell do > we "owe" her (financial) support for the bullshit she pulls? Who said we owe her anything more than the bucks we plunked down for the record? As far as the live show goes, I will say that I don't think it's worth the ticket price, but I think that for almost every artist's concert. If the musical experience at the show disappoints you, complain about that. That's valid. You paid for the ticket, you're owed good music. But getting one's knickers in a bunch about her not smiling enough or not "connecting" with the fans enough, while an understandable emotional reaction, is not defendable in any logical terms. > think about it. does her label "owe" her for her (go with me here) remarkable > rapport-building skills, which would in turn build album sales? I haven't the slightest idea what Capitol expects of her, and why should I care? Why do you care if the record company isn't getting its money's worth? > plus, i'm frankly shocked that brian tells her this story, in which she > figures prominently, and her vanity and egocentrism didn't even pick up on > that. if it were me, i'd be braggin' all over the stage. and don't tell me > she's not vain or egocentric, because i'll *never* stop laughing.... And you know this how? > this isn't about "vilifying" her for being a self-centered diva pulling a > 'tude, it's about saying she's in *no position* to go doing that stuff So, it would be okay for her to not give a shout-out if she had a bunch of #1 singles? That's your most odious and cynical argument by far, and I'm regarded as pretty damn cynical. Really, you should be a record exec... you seem to sympathize with the business side of things enough to be one. But I'll say it again, I don't think the original list members who brought this issue up in the first place were bothered by her lack of professionalism. They can correct me if I'm wrong... > if she doesn't get a clue soon, i'm telling you, she'll be back in her old > bedroom with the laura ashley wallpaper, singing songs into a 4-track. and > that's where they'll stay. either that or she'll be waiting tables at some > melrose avenue chi-chi eatery--and i'll pay a million bucks to see it, too. Follow your bliss, babe! Hey, if you get your wish I'll be all over those 4-tracks like white on rice. I don't give a rat's patoot where good music comes from, nor whom, just as long as I can get my mitts on it. - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 12:42:08 -0400 From: "Eric Ginsburg" Subject: Re:[support-system] Missing Liz >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 22:38:23 -0400 >From: "Stephanie" >Subject: [support-system] Missing Liz >Has anyone ever thought that maybe what they see as Liz's arrogance is >shyness? I always heard about her stage fright, maybe she still kind of >has >it. > Aren't many performers introverted? They can act, sing, and dance in front of a large crowed, but put them in a one-on-one situation, and they retreat to a cave in their mind. I know, I'm an introvert, too. - -Ginz _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 13:22:31 -0400 From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: [support-system] Re: Liz in Chgo See ya there tomorrow! Is anyone meeting up? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 19:55:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Stewart Subject: Re: [support-system] liz defending record There were a few other quotes from that article that really ticked me off, namely: "But what's rubbing a lot of people the wrong way isn't so much the songs themselves, it's the conscious slide into the mainstream Phair has taken with the disc." Uh, no. When it comes down to it, I don't give a rat's ass who produces the album, how popular it gets, etc. It's the god-awful, generic, uninspiring music that has disappointed me so much, especially from someone so formerly brilliant. I think many critics have said this, and fans too, but it's just the mainstream vs. indie thing that Liz and the journalists repeat ad nauseum. Poor Liz. So misunderstood. And the real winner for ass-backward logic: "The way I look at it, if I can get on radio ... if more people like me get on the radio, wouldn't radio be a better place?" Except, Liz, you're forgetting one thing. You sound like everyone else on the radio. You ain't changing shit in the music business or radio by copying what's already there. I can't believe she'd really be stupid enough to say something like this, but then again..... Anyway, can't wait to hear about the Chicago shows this weekend. I expect full, detailed reports. Will Liz be pelted with rotton tomotoes? Be carried off into the night on the shoulders of Chicagoans and be hailed as a returning hero? Oh the suspense. Kate __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 23:44:29 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] test test ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #225 ************************************