From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #223 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, August 20 2003 Volume 06 : Number 223 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [support-system] OMGOMGOMGOMG [Erin ] [support-system] wishes [Steve Rhodes ] Re: [support-system] OMGOMGOMGOMG [TitleTK@aol.com] [support-system] liz access [Dan MacDonald ] [support-system] Ummm.... [Moe ] [support-system] Re: Details [] [support-system] Re: Wicked screensaver [] [support-system] Re: Approved [] [support-system] Re: That movie [] [support-system] where is the love? ["dana p." ] [support-system] Re: Your application [] [support-system] Re: Approved [] [support-system] Re: My love is bigger than your love [fallout@purdue.edu] [support-system] Re: Approved [] [support-system] Re: support-system-digest V6 #222 [Al Madrid ] [support-system] Re: That movie [] [support-system] Re: What was her name? [Al Madrid ] [support-system] Re: Wicked screensaver [] [support-system] Re: My love is bigger than your love [Catherine Molanphy] [support-system] Re: Approved [] [support-system] Re: where is the love? [Catherine Molanphy ] [support-system] liz in detroit ["Nicole M. Eisenmann" ] [support-system] what makes ME happy... [Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] OMGOMGOMGOMG Hi Evry1!!!! I juSt saw LIZZ Fair with JASON MRAZ (I love you baby!) and i tink she is teh hawtest rocker ever! esp. 4 being soooooo old! LOL newayz, i signed up for da list because LIZ rawks! and she is teh luckiest 4 toring wit JASON MRAZ!!!!! she does have a dirty mouth though :( i did NOT want my bf listening to her say those things! oh well! *LOL* TAKE KARE, BFF, CLASS OF 08 RULZ!!! Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:28:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Rhodes Subject: [support-system] wishes It seems like she might have been willing to write a happy b-day note. I can understand not wishing a happy b-day at the show. Sorry that pissed you off. I've become friends or at least gotten to know some musicians and writers I admire. Nobody incredibly famous (though definately incredibly talented). It always is strange when I go to a gig or reading and see what fans want or expect from them. For all of us, there will be things liz will do/say (songs and albums she'll produce) that we don't like. But I don't understand the anger. It isn't worth getting so upset (and she may write a song or do something you really like and then you'll look back and wonder what you were thinking). Steve http://ari.typepad.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 08:07:30 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: [support-system] OMGOMGOMGOMG In a message dated 8/19/03 1:51:39 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marzchik263@yahoo.com writes: << I juSt saw LIZZ Fair with JASON MRAZ (I love you baby!) and i tink she is teh hawtest rocker ever! esp. 4 being soooooo old! LOL >> I fell for it the first two times . . . but this fake email is a little too much . . . james ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 08:57:20 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: [support-system] liz access i know this is an annoying question - i have been reading everyone's reviews of the shows and they are amazing - i'm curious what liz has been like for each show with regard to signing stuff. is it easier to meet her before or after the show (i'm talking about solo shows, not the mraz shows)? i know someone wrote yesterday that she came out 1/2 hour after the show and signed everything, which is great... is there any consistency with regard to her coming out? does she always come out 1/2 hour after? if i don't meet her this time, someone's getting murdered. and catherine...moi? irascible? well...i guess if i don't get to meet liz, that'll be the case. and the birthday thing...well yeah..that sucks...but shit. she really doesn't owe us anything. she's basically wearing black panties and doing a song and dance up there for us as it is...i don't necessarily think it's a bad thing for an artist to say a little something to a fan..i don't think it's a power trip either if they are fully accessible int hat way. i think - if they do, they do - if not, no biggie. the same goes for signing stuff. some people sign stuff - some walk right to the tour bus..does that make them an asshole? it sucks for us, but we are just a bunch of people who don't know her personally, but want her to write a tiny piece of herself onto a $15.99 piece of plastic we bought. that could get annoying too. after the breeders - i don't think i'll ever meet anyone more accessible, in their calibre. all of them were genuinely NICE people who would not only sign anything, but would actually have conversations with their fans and listen and contribute back and even *gasp* instigate conversation. that totally rocks. but i don't expect that from liz, or anyone. that's just a pure bonus. okay i had coffee with lisa loeb in detroit after the show too. that was weird. the whole time i was trying to be all down to earth and have a semi-normal conversation but in my head i was screaming "oh my gaaawwwd!! reality bites! it's the reality bites girl! holy shit!!" poor famous people. dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 06:14:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Moe Subject: [support-system] Ummm.... From: "Falk, Brian" >don't patronize me, you cunt. you're not as smart as you think you are. Unfortunately, running out of intelligent arguments and therefore having to resort to sexist insults to make one's point does not make that point at all but has the opposite effect of weakening it. And from reading her posts here, Catherine looks pretty damn smart to me. Moe __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:29:33 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Details Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of movie0045.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:29:46 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Wicked screensaver Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of wicked_scr.scr] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:30:23 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Approved See the attached file for details [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of application.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 12:52:56 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: That movie Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of document_all.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 09:58:37 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: [support-system] where is the love? <> ummm, what?? christ, i thought *i* was cynical.... good grief; ya know, some musicians/bands really really enjoy the social aspect of performing. they like to deal with it as a big party. and why not?? it's fun; it's about the love, it's about sharing. oh, sorry, is that too stupid? sheeeesh.... jeremy, for what it's worth, i support your POV on this. i totally agree. brian, i'm sorry she was such an idiot. the whole kizmet/harmonic convergence aspect of your story is awesome and if anyone had a reason for a request.... the shout-out woulda been off-the-charts cool. *** i dunno, i'm hearing some really bad reviews of her performances. i understand it *undoubtedly* sucks to be opening for a newcomer, but she of all people should know that's just the politics of the biz. but you still gotta get out there and work it. for a woman who committed oh-mi-god juvenilia to tape to earn some sheckels, the diva 'tude at shows is *not* the way to go. what an idiot. she's learning the "hollywood" thing like, hmmm, someone from the midwest. she's assuming you go around having headaches and being too tired and where the fuck are my fred leightons? when you *really* work in the biz, you show up on time and you work. for however long it takes. and if you don't, word gets around fast. and you don't get hired for the next gig, or the next one after that. it's called being politic. and it's an absolute necessity. at this point, i'm secretly hoping she has to go out and get a "real" job. 'cause, big surprise, she's never had one. and that whole "baby bird" speech of hers--christ, i thought *i* was self-centered..... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:02:22 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Your details Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of application.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:17:52 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Your application Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of application.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:20:35 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Approved See the attached file for details [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of thank_you.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:35:21 -0500 From: fallout@purdue.edu Subject: [support-system] Re: My love is bigger than your love Quoting the [adjective] Catherine: >" ... he didn't even wave to us, and we'd been standing there in the rain for hours >and we all caught pneumonia and he OWES us *something* dammit!!" I bought your CDs. I came to your concert. My purchasing of your wares are my way of saying I admire you, and what you do. I am a human being. I do not need to be lied to and placated like the elderly. I'm just asking for a favor. Say no, that's fine. But I'm telling you I'm going to be there, and you're telling me you'll do it. More Cathy: >And that's where I disagree... nobody owes you shit. But everybody owes everybody some common courtesy, cunt. It's not just that it's a dick move to say "Sure! I'll do that," and then not, it's backstabbing and disrespectful. And she or any one else can pull this old fan/new fan shit, but these are old fans who are still there, who still came to the concert, who still bought the CD even though it's plastic novelty dog shit. These are still important fans. You can be a dick all you want, the public eats that shit up, but you are important to me, as I am important to you. Just treat me with a little dignity is all. I'm not wearing pig-tails and a navel ring outside your fan bus as you rush breathlessly from you stadium venue to your private jet. You're opening for John Mayer 2: Rise of the Machines. > don't patronize me, you cunt. you're not as smart as you think you are. Awesome. Nevertheless, FYI, what's the big deal? What's he going to do? Ask Liz Phair to dis you on stage? And now ... SOMEBODY BACK ME UP HERE, OR DISAGREE, OR SOMETHING: SHE LOOKS LIKE SHE HAS A FRONT-BUTT ON THE COVER OF AMP AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS HEARD THAT SONG? GOD, LET ME KNOW. jeremy (why would I lie about my name? and choose 'jeremy'? i'd more likely pick Cecil.) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 13:42:57 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Approved Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of thank_you.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:59:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: [support-system] Re: support-system-digest V6 #222 Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:32:04 -0500 From: fallout@purdue.edu Subject: [support-system] What was her name? All right, you fucking creeps and supporters and detractors and casual train-wrecks, listen to me. I'm sick of my precious and momentously important posts being lost amidst a sea of concert reviews, and I've got something to say. Don't you fucking make me type in caps, and don't you goddamn think I won't do it. So poor Brian Falk wants Liz Phair to wish his girlfriend happy birthday while she's [Phair] is onstage performing at the 930club, which, thanks to the magic of the Internet, I now know is in Washington D.C. Because Falk, which I'll call him since he did not sign off on his e-mail with any nomenclature, in his windswept romanticized view of the world, thought he would ask a favor of a rock star. Well, tough shit, son, because you are not or will ever be a concern in her mind. I think Catherine put it well when she said this: > What happened to my point? Oh yeah... if you wanna hand in your fanclub > card, and you do it because you think her music irredemably sucks now, then > I'll respect you. Do the same because she wouldn't give you a shout-out at a > concert, and I will not. Should you care if I respect you or not? Hell no. Yeah, hell no. But that's bullshit. That's so much exempting bullshit. It's a looming, sky- darkening, sun blotting mountain of bullshit. And neither Catherine nor anyone else should defend her for it. Didn't somebody here request a song from Phair for their friend or something, and she agreed to do it? And then she didn't? And nobody on the list here said ANYTHING. And I couldn't fucking believe it. What the goddamn shit? If she gave me a fucking pat on the head like that, I'd be furious. I was furious for whomever it happened to, but also much too lazy to mention it. The point is not that she didn't play it, because who know's if she remembers how, there's the setlist, time constraints, blah blah whatever, the point is that she smiled and gave you a little treat and called you a good dog. Who's a good dog? Huh, who's a good dog, who's a gooooooood dog? Yes, you areYES you are! Sure, I'll play your little song! Goooud dooog! And now there's Falk, who looks out at the universe and sees this magnificent series of coincidences and the planet-aligning possibility of bringing the whole thing back around to a wonderful conclusion. And, I'm sorry if I'm just putting all kinds of words (and swear words) in your mouth, he must of just thought, this is going to fucking happen, and it's going to be great. It has to fucking happen, because the universe is too damn perfect for it not to. But it doesn't. I have seen, at a Guster concert, marriage proposal onstage, and the playing of a music video by a college student. This was at two separate concerts. And Guster is a much bigger phenomenon than Phair, concertly speaking. The point is that fun shit happens all the time at concerts, and all kinds of bands honor all kinds of requests, because it's what you do for your fans. Liz Phair is not a rock star. She's a blip on the radar. She's opening for Jason Mraz, who wears his hats sideways. Al, who said the album is certainly not failing, take a fucking look around. The most hopeful you can be is to say that the album may not yet fail. There's a ton of rumor and heresay surrounding Liz Phair and "Liz Phair," the least of which is not that bizarre fucking story from her mom about how she didn't want to work with The Matrix, which I may or may not believe. Anyhow, nobody fucking knows what's she's faking and what's genuine, and who gives a shit? If she can't do you a simple favor after the hundreds of dollars you gave her, fuck her. She's a bitch. I can live with that. Oh man, what an awful, rambly e-mail. I'm sorry I was so demanding that it be read. It isn't my best work. But somebody fucking back me up on this: 1) does it not look like she's sporting a front-butt on the AMP cover? 2) somebody here has to have heard that song by the decemberists. somebody. I hate myself. jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:03:16 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Your application Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of document_all.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:05:23 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: That movie Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of thank_you.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 11:14:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: [support-system] Re: What was her name? Oops accidentally sent an a reply without the reply. First of all, I could give a shit if I ever meet Liz Phair and I don't have the time to try and do so and I could give a rats ass about her giving me or my boyfriend a shout out at a concert even if I asked and she said yes. I'd just figure, tough luck, oh well, who cares? Shit I haven't even been to one of her concerts and probably won't make the one at Hollywood Avalon, though I would love to be able to see her play live. But I love her music, I love her acoustic sets, I love her in the raw and lo-fi and I love her more polished and produced and I love her upper no-lip and I support her music because I like it and I like what I know about her which is probably not even half of who the real Liz Phair is. Who fuckin cares if she or any other musicians give anyone a shout out. It's not about you. No one is there to hear your name shouted out and Liz doesn't owe anyone anything and I don't expect anything from her except to continue writing songs and releasing albums. If she's a bitch, so she's a bitch. Some people on here have said she's very accessible and others say she isn't. Anyway, Falk, don't take it personal. It isn't. If Chad Lowe can forgive Hillary Swank, well then... By the way Jeremy, woops, that's what I meant to say about the album, it is in no way failing as in it isn't over yet. Some of us predicted that Extraordinary will be the single that will take Liz to the next level in the world of pop stardom. Hearing the song on one of the biggest pop stations in the country on the radio the other night gives me more hope that it will indeed be released as the second single. I believe they will probably test it in L.A. first (as they did WCI) and go from there. I know it isn't doing that well right now, but it's too early to call the album a failure. There have been hundreds of albums that took some time to get off the ground. Al Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:32:04 -0500 From: fallout@purdue.edu Subject: [support-system] What was her name? All right, you fucking creeps and supporters and detractors and casual train-wrecks, listen to me. I'm sick of my precious and momentously important posts being lost amidst a sea of concert reviews, and I've got something to say. Don't you fucking make me type in caps, and don't you goddamn think I won't do it. So poor Brian Falk wants Liz Phair to wish his girlfriend happy birthday while she's [Phair] is onstage performing at the 930club, which, thanks to the magic of the Internet, I now know is in Washington D.C. Because Falk, which I'll call him since he did not sign off on his e-mail with any nomenclature, in his windswept romanticized view of the world, thought he would ask a favor of a rock star. Well, tough shit, son, because you are not or will ever be a concern in her mind. I think Catherine put it well when she said this: > What happened to my point? Oh yeah... if you wanna hand in your fanclub > card, and you do it because you think her music irredemably sucks now, then > I'll respect you. Do the same because she wouldn't give you a shout-out at a > concert, and I will not. Should you care if I respect you or not? Hell no. Yeah, hell no. But that's bullshit. That's so much exempting bullshit. It's a looming, sky- darkening, sun blotting mountain of bullshit. And neither Catherine nor anyone else should defend her for it. Didn't somebody here request a song from Phair for their friend or something, and she agreed to do it? And then she didn't? And nobody on the list here said ANYTHING. And I couldn't fucking believe it. What the goddamn shit? If she gave me a fucking pat on the head like that, I'd be furious. I was furious for whomever it happened to, but also much too lazy to mention it. The point is not that she didn't play it, because who know's if she remembers how, there's the setlist, time constraints, blah blah whatever, the point is that she smiled and gave you a little treat and called you a good dog. Who's a good dog? Huh, who's a good dog, who's a gooooooood dog? Yes, you areYES you are! Sure, I'll play your little song! Goooud dooog! And now there's Falk, who looks out at the universe and sees this magnificent series of coincidences and the planet-aligning possibility of bringing the whole thing back around to a wonderful conclusion. And, I'm sorry if I'm just putting all kinds of words (and swear words) in your mouth, he must of just thought, this is going to fucking happen, and it's going to be great. It has to fucking happen, because the universe is too damn perfect for it not to. But it doesn't. I have seen, at a Guster concert, marriage proposal onstage, and the playing of a music video by a college student. This was at two separate concerts. And Guster is a much bigger phenomenon than Phair, concertly speaking. The point is that fun shit happens all the time at concerts, and all kinds of bands honor all kinds of requests, because it's what you do for your fans. Liz Phair is not a rock star. She's a blip on the radar. She's opening for Jason Mraz, who wears his hats sideways. Al, who said the album is certainly not failing, take a fucking look around. The most hopeful you can be is to say that the album may not yet fail. There's a ton of rumor and heresay surrounding Liz Phair and "Liz Phair," the least of which is not that bizarre fucking story from her mom about how she didn't want to work with The Matrix, which I may or may not believe. Anyhow, nobody fucking knows what's she's faking and what's genuine, and who gives a shit? If she can't do you a simple favor after the hundreds of dollars you gave her, fuck her. She's a bitch. I can live with that. Oh man, what an awful, rambly e-mail. I'm sorry I was so demanding that it be read. It isn't my best work. But somebody fucking back me up on this: 1) does it not look like she's sporting a front-butt on the AMP cover? 2) somebody here has to have heard that song by the decemberists. somebody. I hate myself. jeremy __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:24:25 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Details Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of your_details.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:29:59 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Wicked screensaver See the attached file for details [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of document_all.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:46:37 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] Re: My love is bigger than your love > Quoting the [adjective] Catherine: >> " ... he didn't even wave to us, and we'd been standing there in the rain for >> hours and we all caught pneumonia and he OWES us *something* dammit!!" > > I bought your CDs. I came to your concert. My purchasing of your wares are my > way of saying I admire you, and what you do. I am a human being. SNIP! I took this to private e-mail because it's becoming quite flame-like, and I'm guessing the majority of you don't want to have their inboxes cluttered with a pissing contest. Of course, if you're like me and *enjoy* a feisty convo, I'll be happy to forward on the text... - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:38:29 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Approved Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of thank_you.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 14:58:01 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] Re: where is the love? dana p. wrote: (quoting me) > < for fans that are the "gooood dog" ones... they're perpetuating the illusion > that their fans are their friends, or that they're somehow all-powerful > distributors of manna to the populace.>> > ummm, what?? christ, i thought *i* was cynical.... good grief; ya know, some > musicians/bands really really enjoy the social aspect of performing. they like > to deal with it as a big party. and why not?? it's fun; it's about the love, > it's about sharing. oh, sorry, is that too stupid? :sigh: No, it's not too stupid. But don't vilify Liz for *not* being into the social aspect of performing. Or thinking that she "owes" that to people. If a musical artist is truly comfortable with having intimate conversations with total strangers, then I admit to misjudging them with my above "good dog" (tm jeremy) comment. If they're doing it purely to "work the crowd" then I think it's disingenuous. And who's to know which is which? - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 15:41:46 --0400 From: Subject: [support-system] Re: Your application Please see the attached file for details. [demime 0.97c-p1 removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of movie0045.pif] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 16:53:40 -0400 From: "Nicole M. Eisenmann" Subject: [support-system] liz in detroit i am planning on seeing liz in detroit! whoo hoo! :) anyone else?? nicole ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 17:29:03 -0500 From: "sandra" Subject: [support-system] stewart's coat I'm responding to a three-week old post. Apologies. I was on vacation, then home being a mom and working against deadline for a while, and lamenting the fact that I cannot make one fucking Liz show on this whole goddamn tour. (Not bitter. Not.) Anyway, James, about "Stewart's Coat" -- is that the song that is played at the very end of "When A Man Loves a Woman," with Meg Ryan and Andy Garcia? It's one of my favorite movies and I've always loved this song. Thanks so much for providing the info for it. Would you happen to have an MP3? sandra > > "Stewart's Coat" is an absolutely heartbreaking old song of Ricki Lee Jones. > It was recorded on the "Traffic in Paradise" album and live on "Naked Songs." > I highly doubt Liz ever did a recording of it . . . but I could be > (hopefully) wrong. A lot of times those downloading programs confuse artists. > > james ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:42:13 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] what makes ME happy... Holy crap... well, here's a welcome relief to all of my bad karma on the list lately... I just heard the WCSEsessions boot for the very first time (thank you thank you, you lovely boot fairy! and I mean that in the best sense!) and whoa! This is the crazy thing... I always loved "What Makes You Happy", but now! The "sessions" version kicks its ass in every way! Whywhywhy does Liz have to overthink how her songs are produced? Doesn't she know that her first instinct on how a song should sound is invariably the best one? Did she think she had to go all "techno" in order to seem current? Pooh! The way it was, the song had this fabulous, big, 1970's sound to it... then she had to go and muddle it. I wish my music vocabulary were better, so I could describe exactly what I love about it... And Russian Girl... okay, this might be one that I like even better in a later incarnation (holy self-contradiction, batman!), but the essence of what I like about it is still the same. She's a dumm-kopf for not always using this in her live show.... dum-kopf, I say! My major problem with Liz is that she has no idea how good she is... she consistently either under-values or mis-values her own talent. And all the clowns she seems to surround herself with in the industry don't get it either... sorry... I'm foaming at the mouth. I'll post more incoherent babble about these tracks at a later date, I'm sure... majorly overstaying my welcome, Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 04:41:21 +0000 From: "over pavema" Subject: [support-system] from mesmerizing to patronizing! >From: "Falk, Brian" >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:51:34 -0400 >To: > >don't patronize me, you cunt. you're not as smart as you think you are. well, the jury's probably still out on how smart catherine is or isn't. but you are definltely not as articulate as you think you are, since everyone knows that if you're really trying to show women how much you despise them, then the proper phrasing is 'silly cunt'. it's more dismissive and disrespectful. and, while it lacks the alliteration of 'dumb cunt', it's got more impact because it shows women everywhere that you will not stand for their worthless opinions, or sit still while any one of them disagrees with you. in fact, you'll get so worked up into a lather, why, you'll call them names! so, while i'm sure the women in your life are proud as can be of your brilliance and virility (and i'm also sure the fine people in your school district would be tickled to see you using their email system to launch these spectacularly crushing emails), a lot of people on the list would say a line has been crossed. shock and awe (or lots of hand-wringing) may be the intended result, but sad and sort of crummy and dull-witted is what it really is. not to mention unwarranted, since catherine's point was both valid (even if you didn't like it) and smart (even if you didn't recognize it). i don't know catherine, and she definitely doesn't need my boney ass defending her. but it's just plain lame to take out the disappointment of your liz-fixated expectations on her. eh, whatever. maybe this is the sort of thing you find hilarious. i've met people like that before, too. _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #223 ************************************