From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #222 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, August 19 2003 Volume 06 : Number 222 Today's Subjects: ----------------- [support-system] Re: liz opts not to return the favor to b-day katie ["An] Re: [support-system] Re: liz opts not to return the favor to b-day katie [TitleTK@aol.co] [support-system] i'm sleeping in the girls (bath)room [Dan MacDonald ] [support-system] CMJ November 1994 excerpt [Catherine Molanphy ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:34:18 -0400 From: "Andrea Steiner" Subject: [support-system] Re: liz opts not to return the favor to b-day katie > >ok now. if you were the "rock star" in this scenario, would you honor this request? well, as you either know or have surmised, liz didn't. the set started and ended with nary a birthday wish to any fan, old or recent. i guess she was afraid that one stupid little happy birthday would open up an entire pandora's box of personal requests, which could clearly elicit no other result than to derail her promising career as the grammy-winning piece-of-ass heartthrob who, after releasing 3 of the best albums i have ever heard, had to stoop down to opening for jason fucking mrrrraz. i guess when you think about that way it makes perfect sense, huh? > >stop the bus, i'm getting off. how do i unsubscribe? > Yes, it would have been unbelievably cool if Liz had honored your request, but I think you're being a bit unfair here and expecting too much of Liz. She's an entertainer with a full schedule and her own priorities, with plenty of people around her who are trying to get a piece of her all the time. I agree with Catherine--if you said you were no longer a fan because you weren't satisfied with her new material, that would be understandable and acceptable. But not getting a shout out at a concert days after speaking with her very briefly seems like a far fetched reason for renouncing in your fan status. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 08:16:04 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: [support-system] Re: liz opts not to return the favor to b-day katie In a message dated 8/18/03 2:35:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time, cynima@hotmail.com writes: << I agree with Catherine--if you said you were no longer a fan because you weren't satisfied with her new material, that would be understandable and acceptable. But not getting a shout out at a concert days after speaking with her very briefly seems like a far fetched reason for renouncing in your fan status. >> I also like Catherine's line about Liz being popular in high school . . . not that it makes anyone a bad person . . . but let's me honest here, part of what we like about Liz is her bitchiness. EIG is at least partly about using one's intelligence and beauty to get what we want. Some artists I would love to meet and hang out with (re:Kim Deal) b/c they are very down to earth. Liz simply isn't one of those artists and her music reflects that. james ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 10:25:03 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: [support-system] i'm sleeping in the girls (bath)room the enigmatic catherine molanphy wrote: I know in my gut that if Liz and I went to high school together we would NEVER have been friends. i probably wouldn't have been her friend either, but i for sure would have stared at her from far away...and if she was a bitchy snobby popular rich girl and made fun of me - i would have retorted with something like : "...bitch u gots no fuckin upper lip so shut tha hell up, bitch." then i would have tried to get all the stoners to start calling her "rat-mouth" and hope the nick name caught on with the jocks. not really. anyway, did anyone notice on the regis and kelly show that the version of Why Can't I? was shorter? unless i was daydreaming..but i swear, she cut out "the best part of breaking up is finding someone else u can't get enough of" part. for me, that's the redeeming part of the song!! but it just merged into the chorus. i'm guessing this is because of the 'haven't fucked yet" line...i dunno..that's just a pet peave of mine. it also sounds like she's huffing helium. when she was talking to regis and kelly, i kept thinking "huh? she doesn't sound like that..." i don't know...weird.. and that sucks about the birthday thing...but maybe she just flat out forgot. who knows? although...there was that time in grand rapids..she refused to say happy birthday to me too...wait....u don't think she's a jahova's witness do u?? oh dear god. what has capitol records done to her? bastards. dan ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 11:06:01 EDT From: BobDsn@aol.com Subject: [support-system] Liz @ Avalon in Boston - 8/17 My wife and I saw Liz last night at Boston's Avalon. Actually we saw a LOT more of Liz than we expected to. The Phair one was wearing less clothing than J-Lo's infamous Versace dress! Seriously, I have no idea who's dressing her for this tour, but she looked rather uncomfortable in her see-thru mini-dress (with matching bikini briefs). No wonder she doesn't move around much onstage. If she started jumping up an down her breasts would have popped right out of her plunging neckline. Yikes! Yeah, she's hot all right, but jeez . . . leave a little something to the imagination. ;-) OK, now about the music. After a thoroughly enjoyable 40-minute set by Boston alt-rockers Wheat there was a 20-minute wait while the stage was reset for Liz & Co. At a little past 8:00 the lights went down and Liz's band filed onstage and began 'tuning up.' Then Liz made her entrance to thunderous applause and whoops. The crowd was so pumped! She strapped on her trusty Fender Musicmaster and blasted off with 6'1". The mix was VERY LOUD! (My ears are still ringing a bit this morning. (Must remember earplugs . . . ) As many have noted in their reviews it was a bit difficult to hear Liz over the rest of the band at times. Since this has been reported at virtually every show on this tour you have to wonder about the doofus behind the mixing desk. The setlist was as follows, but not necessarily in the order listed: 6' 1" / Polyester Bride / Red Light Fever / Glory / Help Me Mary / Rock Me / Never Said / Perfect World / Johnny Feelgood / Divorce Song / Why Can't I? / Uncle Alvarez / Extraordinary / Flower (solo -- no singalong) / Supernova ===== encore ========= Little Digger (sung with her eyes closed) / Fuck and Run (total time = just over an hour) Some random observations: Liz's singing and guitar playing were both excellent. She really hits the high notes with confidence. The vocal coaching has clearly paid off. I didn't notice that many guitar changes. Liz stuck with her cream-colored Musicmaster with the red star thingy on it for most of the show. Midway through the set Liz remarked "It's been nice touring with Jason Mraz, but it's great to be headlining." This was followed by shouts of "Jason who?" from the crowd. (She clearly seemed resentful about having to share the spotlight with "Mr. Remedy." I think the comment was meant more for her management than the audience.) I'm surprised no one has mentioned that Liz's mop-topped guitarist and drummer are twin brothers. The guitarist was wearing a white T-shirt emblazoned with the "Big Muff" fuzz-pedal logo. The bassist was by far the best musician onstage. He also sang most of the backing vocals -- the high notes, not the low parts! He has a damned good falsetto. I actually liked hearing a guy sing backing vox on the _Guyville_ songs -- sounded more like the album versions. Liz's between song banter was pretty minimal. She made a few remarks about the NYC blackout; "We were doing a taping for VH-1 and blew out the power!" She also mentioned before Little Digger "I'm going to see my son Nick tomorrow. I can't wait!" (Little Digger was a lousy encore choice IMHO. Too much of a downer.) I thought it was kinda odd that while introducing her band Liz stumbled over the bass player's last name; "Is it Simmons or Simons?" Doesn't she speak to these guys? Don't they all travel together in the same bus? I'd like to be a fly on the wall in that tour bus. And speaking of tour buses, hers had two huge eyes drawn on the windshield shades. Pretty cute. About a half hour after the show ended Liz emerged from the stage door and proceeded to sign pretty much anything anyone offered her. She was very accommodating, but kept the chitchat to a minimum. To my surprise she was still wearing her skimpy stage outfit. She even posed for a few pictures with fans. Liz signed my _Liz Phair_ CD. She signed on the *actual CD* -- not the booklet. (I haven't tried playing it yet.) After signing a couple dozen T-shirts, ticket stubs and CD booklets Liz asked "Is there anyone else who needs anything?" I thought that was a peculiar turn of phrase. Made me feel like a parasite and not a fan. One fanatic asked Liz "If you sign my arm I'll get it tattooed." To which Liz replied, "Ooh, I don't think so. That's too creepy!" On the subway ride back home my wife and I talked a lot about Liz and what a bundle of contradictions she is. The *next* Liz Phair CD is going to be the most telling. I just hope it's not another five years in the making. Bob K. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 12:32:04 -0500 From: fallout@purdue.edu Subject: [support-system] What was her name? All right, you fucking creeps and supporters and detractors and casual train-wrecks, listen to me. I'm sick of my precious and momentously important posts being lost amidst a sea of concert reviews, and I've got something to say. Don't you fucking make me type in caps, and don't you goddamn think I won't do it. So poor Brian Falk wants Liz Phair to wish his girlfriend happy birthday while she's [Phair] is onstage performing at the 930club, which, thanks to the magic of the Internet, I now know is in Washington D.C. Because Falk, which I'll call him since he did not sign off on his e-mail with any nomenclature, in his windswept romanticized view of the world, thought he would ask a favor of a rock star. Well, tough shit, son, because you are not or will ever be a concern in her mind. I think Catherine put it well when she said this: > What happened to my point? Oh yeah... if you wanna hand in your fanclub > card, and you do it because you think her music irredemably sucks now, then > I'll respect you. Do the same because she wouldn't give you a shout-out at a > concert, and I will not. Should you care if I respect you or not? Hell no. Yeah, hell no. But that's bullshit. That's so much exempting bullshit. It's a looming, sky- darkening, sun blotting mountain of bullshit. And neither Catherine nor anyone else should defend her for it. Didn't somebody here request a song from Phair for their friend or something, and she agreed to do it? And then she didn't? And nobody on the list here said ANYTHING. And I couldn't fucking believe it. What the goddamn shit? If she gave me a fucking pat on the head like that, I'd be furious. I was furious for whomever it happened to, but also much too lazy to mention it. The point is not that she didn't play it, because who know's if she remembers how, there's the setlist, time constraints, blah blah whatever, the point is that she smiled and gave you a little treat and called you a good dog. Who's a good dog? Huh, who's a good dog, who's a gooooooood dog? Yes, you areYES you are! Sure, I'll play your little song! Goooud dooog! And now there's Falk, who looks out at the universe and sees this magnificent series of coincidences and the planet-aligning possibility of bringing the whole thing back around to a wonderful conclusion. And, I'm sorry if I'm just putting all kinds of words (and swear words) in your mouth, he must of just thought, this is going to fucking happen, and it's going to be great. It has to fucking happen, because the universe is too damn perfect for it not to. But it doesn't. I have seen, at a Guster concert, marriage proposal onstage, and the playing of a music video by a college student. This was at two separate concerts. And Guster is a much bigger phenomenon than Phair, concertly speaking. The point is that fun shit happens all the time at concerts, and all kinds of bands honor all kinds of requests, because it's what you do for your fans. Liz Phair is not a rock star. She's a blip on the radar. She's opening for Jason Mraz, who wears his hats sideways. Al, who said the album is certainly not failing, take a fucking look around. The most hopeful you can be is to say that the album may not yet fail. There's a ton of rumor and heresay surrounding Liz Phair and "Liz Phair," the least of which is not that bizarre fucking story from her mom about how she didn't want to work with The Matrix, which I may or may not believe. Anyhow, nobody fucking knows what's she's faking and what's genuine, and who gives a shit? If she can't do you a simple favor after the hundreds of dollars you gave her, fuck her. She's a bitch. I can live with that. Oh man, what an awful, rambly e-mail. I'm sorry I was so demanding that it be read. It isn't my best work. But somebody fucking back me up on this: 1) does it not look like she's sporting a front-butt on the AMP cover? 2) somebody here has to have heard that song by the decemberists. somebody. I hate myself. jeremy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:01:10 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] rat-mouth The irascible Dan McDonald wrote: > the enigmatic catherine molanphy wrote: Meee? An enigma? Damn yo... > and if she was a bitchy snobby popular rich girl and made fun of me - i would > have retorted with something like : "...bitch u gots no fuckin upper lip so > shut tha hell up, bitch." then i would have tried to get all the stoners to > start calling her "rat-mouth" and hope the nick name caught on with the jocks. > not really. LOL... I *love* her rat-mouth. For some reason I've always thought of that sort of mouth as being Irish... and I always wanted on when I was younger. I used to lift up my nose and look in the mirror at how it revealed my two upper teeth so fetchingly... and then I'd wish for a teeny-tiny nose to go with it, but you know... we all want what we don't have. > it also sounds like she's huffing helium. when she was talking to regis > and kelly, i kept thinking "huh? she doesn't sound like that..." I remember the first time I heard her speaking voice in an interview (I think it was on 120 minutes or something... anyway, way back in the day), I was shocked at her itty-bitty little girl voice. Sometimes I think that she had to work very hard on EIG to make her voice sound that deep and tough... she's probably always hated her voice. I dunno... I kind of get a kick out of it when she does that helium-huffing thing when she sings the high parts on WCI and Shallow Opportunities, but another part of me misses her gruff voice from GirlySound and EIG. > i don't know...weird.. and that sucks about the birthday thing...but > maybe she just flat out forgot. who knows? although...there was that time > in grand rapids..she refused to say happy birthday to me too...wait....u > don't think she's a jahova's witness do u?? > oh dear god. what has capitol records done to her? bastards. Like I said before, the saying happy birthday thing has always struck me as a "celebrity power" move... I wouldn't blame her for not doing it. I dunno... I guess I just don't care. - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 14:28:39 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: Re: [support-system] What was her name? Jeremy (is that your real name?) wrote: > The point is that fun shit happens all the time at concerts, and all kinds of > bands honor all kinds of requests, because it's what you do for your fans. This is a constant bone of contention on hundreds of fan mailing lists and message boards. Even for sports... two years ago when I became, frighteningly enough, a baseball freak, people used to post shit all the time saying that they were through with so-and-so player because he wouldn't sign their little kid's baseball/trading card/ticket stub or because, "he didn't even wave to us, and we'd been standing there in the rain for hours and we all caught pneumonia and he OWES us *something* dammit!!" And that's where I disagree... nobody owes you shit. When you choose to become a dedicated fan of someone, you take your time and your effort into your own hands, so to speak. I used to stand for hours in front of the pressgate at the ballpark just waiting for my favorite player to emerge so I could say hi to him and even once (God help me!) to give him oatmeal raisin cookies because I'd heard that they were his favorite kind. He always managed to slip out from another exit. I was frustrated and disappointed, but I didn't think he *owed* it to me to be there. On an instinctive level, I knew that part of the fun for me was in his very inaccessibility, and I enjoyed the game of trying to meet him. When I finally did figure out where to find him and got him to sign my baseball, it was a real moment of triumph, however fleeting. The remuneration you get for laying down hard-earned money for Liz's albums is the music itself and the pleasure of listening to it. I'll say it again, she doesn't owe any of us fuck-all. Not in a technical sense and not in the broader, moral sense either. If Brian chose to pin all his happiness of the concert in hearing Liz mention his girlfriend, then, I'm sorry to be harsh, but he deserved the misery he got. In my opinion, it's the bands and artists that do all those "little things" for fans that are the "gooood dog" ones... they're perpetuating the illusion that their fans are their friends, or that they're somehow all-powerful distributors of manna to the populace. The way I see it, *that's* the steaming pile of bullshit, not Liz's refusal to give birthday wishes. The day she starts doing stuff like that just may be the day she starts believing in her own celebrity. It'll probably happen anyway if this album hits big, I just don't want to hasten the moment. - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:39:20 -0400 From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: Re: [support-system] Liz on Regis and Kelly DId anyone see this? DID she play or get interviewed or both? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:11:46 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] FW: FYI - ---------- From: "Falk, Brian" Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:51:34 -0400 To: don't patronize me, you cunt. you're not as smart as you think you are. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 19:13:20 -0500 From: "Mike Katsoulis" Subject: [support-system] re: liz opts not to return the favor to b-day katie I understand why someone would be mad about Liz not giving a shot out. I was at Liz's St. Louis and Cleveland shows, and after the St. Louis show she said she would give myself and my friend a shot out during her Cleveland set. Did she? No way. I figured she wouldn't, but it really sucked that she didn't. Why not? Are our names too difficult to remember? Maybe writing them down would help... after all, she did repeat "Mike and Chrissy" about 5 times to yourself as a joke before we left. Is she too busy trying to impress Mraz's fans to give two shits about the fans who have stayed with her for ten years? I find Liz is opposite most artists. Most artists attempt to stay true to their music, and connect with their fans. They appreciate when a fan would prefer an intelligent conversation or a hug over a shitty autograph. Liz isn't like that. she would prefer to be a *star* who doesn't have enough time in her itinerary to speak to a fan. she doesn't care to give anything more than a signature. It's too bad she ISN'T a star, or at least not yet. The fact of the matter is that she is playing to a venue full of people who aren't there to see her, and do not give two shits about her. After the St. Louis show there was a pathetic number of fans waiting around her bus to speak to her. pathetic considering what she has accomplished in her career. She attempted to be all diva about it and walk straight to her bus before her guilty conscience made her turn around and complain she is too tired to be signing things to the 5 or 6 fans waiting. Liz should be taking these opportunities with fans and making the best of them. But no. Liz wants to be a star. I don't see how she can get there while shooting down those who support her. I don't mean to complain. After reading all the awesome stories of Liz encounters, I thought I simply caught her at the wrong time. This story made me re-think that. mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:19:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Re: [support-system] re: liz opts not to return the favor to b-day katie <> Um, yes. - -Emil __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:36:44 -0400 From: Jase Subject: [support-system] Detroit show? Just curious, is anyone else going to see Liz in Detroit next Monday? Jase ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 23:56:09 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: [support-system] CMJ November 1994 excerpt "That's usually at shows. You go afterward to sign some autographs and that's when I see that they're completely waiting for something, like little kids at a birthday party, 'Is there a clown? Is there a pony?'" She stops drawing on the backs of the day's mail to lean across the table and make her point. "They want something. They want their own personal snippet to go home and remember. All these hungry mouths, all these gaping baby birds. Some people see me as a wounded soul and want to get that. Some people see me as the girl that scorned them in the schoolyard and they want me to be bitchy and bratty. Some people see me as a kind of hippie collegiate. Think of all the different perceptions of what the songs say and that's the variety you get coming back at you." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 04:24:44 +0000 From: "over pavema" Subject: [none] er, um, well, yes, i will concede that my review did not take into account the fact that liz blew off your girlfriend's b'day. what was i thinking (or drinking)? :) sorry about the let-down. but, my two cents, for what it's worth: that birthday card moment meant more to those of us in the crowd that night than it did (or does) to liz, and that's not really anybody's fault. you should probably get points for making the effort anyway, even if it didn't exactly work out... o brian wrote: >last night at the 930club was my 8th and final liz phair concert. i was >very surprised to read overpavement's positive review of the show, as (to >me) it was the same crap as philly...just 4 days later. hated the crowd, >hate her silly little mop-topped band (goddamn it, where the hell are >buddy, mario and janet?!), hated the new-album-heavy setlist, and >especially hated the frequent references to jason mraz between songs as >part of her "give and take" with the audience. of course, if you are >hellbent on on turning 17 year old girls into your loyal fans, i guess it >is a smart thing to punctuate 50% of your remarks with "....ooooand jason >did this!" and "....jason said that!" shee-it. i almost vomited when she >started gushing about how good jason is at flicking guitar picks into the >audience. maybe that obnoxious hecker in philly who wondered aloud how >many times she fucked him is onto something. > >no, my motive was different: i bought that damn thing for the sole purpose >of informing liz personally (with both a succinct story and well-crafted >note) that b-day katie, the same wonderful pale plue-eyed angel who went to >the trouble of forwarding birthday greetings to liz just in time for her >last 930club performance in '99(what was it, like 3 days after her actual >birthday that night?), would in fact be celebrating HER OWN birthday the >night of the impending 930club show. and HOW FRICKIN COOL WOULD IT BE for >liz phair to set aside all her major-label airs for one goddamn minute and >wish an onstage happy birthday to a fan who had been adoring and loyal for >years on end? pretty frickin cool i would say. question was, could she be >talked into it? _________________________________________________________________ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #222 ************************************