From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #194 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, July 22 2003 Volume 06 : Number 194 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Bounced message [owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ] How come? [Catherine Molanphy ] Niko [Andrea Uptmor ] RE: i actually could be "stacy's mom".... ["INMAN, DAVID B" ] RE: Courtney's solo album ["INMAN, DAVID B" ] Re: Niko [Emil Breton ] Re: i actually could be "stacy's mom".... / Duran Duran [Catherine Molanp] RE: i actually could be "stacy's mom".... / Duran Duran ["INMAN, DAVID B"] Re: Liz review in Who [Catherine Molanphy ] One more Liz Article [AWeiss4338@aol.com] RE: Courtney's solo album [Jase ] Liz-related Veruca Salt song [NeverTell1117@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 02:05:38 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:14:49 +0200 From: Nikolaus Mitsarakis To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: Liz Phair interview on the Rolling Stone website Hi there, I do not know how many of you have read this interview (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=18393). OK, Liz, I think your new album sucks. Don't worry. You are not the first of my favorite artists who has released a disappointing album. That's (hopefully) not the end of your career and certainly not the end of the world. Three out of four is not bad at all. However, please do not try to speak for people like myself. That annoys the hell out of me. Especially when you are completely wrong with your comments. Case in point I: Quote: "I wanted them [her (former) fans] to have enough flexibility to say, "Well it's not what I expected, she's never going to make Guyville again but the tunes are kind of catchy and I can enjoy them." Well, please do not assume that people who liked your old stuff and do NOT like your new album are "inflexible." Besides, had you done another "Guyville" I would have been disappointed since who really needs another "Guyville"? We already have one. I enjoy ANY kind of music, as long as I like it. And, hey, I have even enjoyed "Sk8er Boi" more than anything on "Liz Phair", OK? I (am I the only one?) am certainly not generally anti-pop or anti-anything as far as music goes. I simply do not enjoy "Liz Phair." Case in point II: Quote: "Every time I played it [H.W.C.] for people, generally speaking, grown men had a lot of problems with it." I am a grown man and I do not have a problem with it. In fact, although I think that "Liz Phair" is disappointing, it is my (only) favorite of the bunch of songs on it. How come? Case in point III: Quote: "How come I [Liz] don't ever get to make songs that are blasted out of cars?" Many, many songs from your three first albums and various of your soundtrack cuts have been blasted out while I was driving. Do worry about that aspect. However, well, your new stuff most probably won't get too much airtime in my car. You can experiment with your music any way you want and as long as you want. You know that your fans (or former fans) have been a very patient bunch. And even if I or other people do not like it, it's OK. However, please speak about things you can be certain you know something about in the future, like wanting to earn lots of money, which is fine by me. Please do not speak for me. I'll take care of that myself, as you may be able to recognize here. Sincerely, Niko ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 21:11:00 +1000 From: Brian Cooper Subject: Re: Veruca Salt, Liz and cum James - I do really hate it when people use perfectly good logic to crush a discussion. ;-) Nice job. One a different note, I'm still trying to dig up that article that was used as a basis for H.W.C. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:51:52 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: How come? > From: Nikolaus Mitsarakis >> Case in point II: Quote: "Every time I played it [H.W.C.] for people, >> generally speaking, grown men had a lot of problems with it." > I am a grown man and I do not have a problem with it. In fact, although I > think that "Liz Phair" is disappointing, it is my (only) favorite of the bunch > of songs on it. How come? LOL. I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes this song... in terms of catchy happy songs, this one rocks me. (no pun in.) - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 08:48:05 -0500 From: Andrea Uptmor Subject: Niko um, reality check time, Niko. you're not making any sense. sorry. :) Quoting "by way of Jase " : > Date: Sat, 19 Jul 2003 12:14:49 +0200 > From: Nikolaus Mitsarakis > To: support-system-digest@smoe.org > Subject: Liz Phair interview on the Rolling Stone website > > Hi there, > > I do not know how many of you have read this interview > (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=18393). > > OK, Liz, I think your new album sucks. Don't worry. You are not the > first of my favorite artists who has released a disappointing album. > That's (hopefully) not the end of your career and certainly not the end > of the world. Three out of four is not bad at all. > > However, please do not try to speak for people like myself. That annoys > the hell out of me. > Especially when you are completely wrong with your comments. > > Case in point I: > Quote: "I wanted them [her (former) fans] to have enough flexibility to > say, "Well it's not what I expected, she's never going to make Guyville > again but the tunes are kind of catchy and I can enjoy them." > Well, please do not assume that people who liked your old stuff and do > NOT like your new album are "inflexible." Besides, had you done another > "Guyville" I would have been disappointed since who really needs another > "Guyville"? We already have one. I enjoy ANY kind of music, as long as I > like it. And, hey, I have even enjoyed "Sk8er Boi" more than anything on > "Liz Phair", OK? I (am I the only one?) am certainly not generally > anti-pop or anti-anything as far as music goes. I simply do not enjoy > "Liz Phair." > > Case in point II: > Quote: "Every time I played it [H.W.C.] for people, generally speaking, > grown men had a lot of problems with it." > I am a grown man and I do not have a problem with it. In fact, although > I think that "Liz Phair" is disappointing, it is my (only) favorite of > the bunch of songs on it. How come? > > Case in point III: > Quote: "How come I [Liz] don't ever get to make songs that are blasted > out of cars?" > Many, many songs from your three first albums and various of your > soundtrack cuts have been blasted out while I was driving. Do worry > about that aspect. However, well, your new stuff most probably won't get > too much airtime in my car. > > You can experiment with your music any way you want and as long as you > want. You know that your fans (or former fans) have been a very patient > bunch. And even if I or other people do not like it, it's OK. > > However, please speak about things you can be certain you know something > about in the future, like wanting to earn lots of money, which is fine > by me. Please do not speak for me. I'll take care of that myself, as you > may be able to recognize here. > > Sincerely, > Niko > - -- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:39:58 -0500 From: "INMAN, DAVID B" Subject: RE: i actually could be "stacy's mom".... O.K. so the temptation is to say what does all this have to do with Liz, but the FOW disc is about the only thing that gives me hope for the future of music - GOOD music without taking things way too seriously... Is there anyone who can honestly say Duran Duran wasn't/isn't a great band? Oh yeah, and I still have a crush on stacy's mom, she's still hot @ 70... "Is it so wrong, wanting to be at home with your record collection? It's not like collecting stamps, or beermats, or antique thimbles. There's a whole world in there, a nicer, dirtier, more violent, more peaceful, more colorful, sleazier, more dangerous, more loving world than the world I love in; there's history, and geography, and poetry, and countless other things I should have studied at school, including music" - Nick Hornby, High Fidelity - -----Original Message----- From: dana p. [mailto:daisywheel@mindspring.com] Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 4:13 PM To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: i actually could be "stacy's mom".... >>ditto, ditto, ditto, can't get the thing out of my cd player<< i know! and do they not have the *best* opening lines? "is that supposed to be a poker face or did someone get run over by a train?...", "he was killed by a cellular phone explosion...", "standing on a planter in the port authority, waiting for my bus to come...", "drivin' on the lawn, sleepin on the roof, drinkin' all the alcohol... all the kids from school will be naked in the pool...." excellent. plus i always dig their incessant tri-state references. i love these guys. i heard their live shows are great. speaking of live shows, i'm sincerely bummed i missed duran duran.... like, almost as much as when i missed the stones tour in '81. i'm not kidding. [or their '75 tour or whenever that was. i was a bit young for that one, but still.... what was i thinking?] some shows you just *gotta* see. anyway, i always thought duran duran really had it all figured out, and i always thought they were unfairly maligned! for being good looking--and, yeah, selling an obscene amount of records. but so what?? hey, they played and they won. kudos to them for getting out there after all this time. have you ever heard john taylor give an interview? that guy is a fucking riot. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:44:23 -0500 From: "INMAN, DAVID B" Subject: RE: How come? grown men have a problem with it because it is fiction that hits way too close to home. we've all dreamed of meeting this HWC woman who is energized by that which rules our lives...but we know she really doesn't exist... - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Molanphy [mailto:catherinemolanphy@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 7:52 AM To: Support System Subject: How come? > From: Nikolaus Mitsarakis >> Case in point II: Quote: "Every time I played it [H.W.C.] for people, >> generally speaking, grown men had a lot of problems with it." > I am a grown man and I do not have a problem with it. In fact, although I > think that "Liz Phair" is disappointing, it is my (only) favorite of the bunch > of songs on it. How come? LOL. I'm glad I'm not the only one who likes this song... in terms of catchy happy songs, this one rocks me. (no pun in.) - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 09:52:48 -0500 From: "INMAN, DAVID B" Subject: RE: Courtney's solo album could this be the last if kurt's songs? - -----Original Message----- From: s.fried@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au [mailto:s.fried@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au] Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 10:22 PM To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: Courtney's solo album Apparently Courtney's solo album is coming out (in Australia at least) October 28 - WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 11:50:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Re: Niko - --- Andrea Uptmor wrote: > um, reality check time, Niko. you're not making any > sense. sorry. :) THANK YOU, Niko, for the link to that interview; it was great. I love being reassured that there'll be legitimate Phair nuggets released all over the place in the months to come. She placates me so well. I definitely understood and wholeheartedly agreed with the follow-up comments from Nikolaus. Oh well, Liz has never spoken for or about me before, and I'm not surprised that she'd get it wrong (on the first try and all). It's perfectly all right. Before you all rush out to buy the new FoW (which, if I understood their new hit video correctly, is a Popping-out along the lines of "Liz Phair"), may I recommend the debut disc from Rooney? Most of the CD is shit, but that first track "Blueside" is the best thing I've heard so far this year (it's been a slow year), ahead of "Jeremy Engle" and the White Stripes' cover of "I Just Don't Know What to Do with Myself". 1 song out of 11 ain't bad. Hey, it's only like 9 bucks at Target. Most of the album is pop-by-numbers conventional and they more or less match the New Liz in terms of lyrical complexity, so it should satisfy many of you fine folks. Check them out! Peace 'n' luv, Emil __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:27:07 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: Re: i actually could be "stacy's mom".... / Duran Duran > From: "INMAN, DAVID B" > Is there anyone who can honestly say Duran Duran wasn't/isn't a great band? Not I. But hrmm... are our memories colored by nostalgia? I have such fond memories of hearing "New Moon on Monday" on the radio, and that "Rio" video was just *damn* exciting. Maybe they just caught the zeitgeist better than anyone else? I don't know... I'm asking. - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 15:22:51 -0500 From: "INMAN, DAVID B" Subject: RE: i actually could be "stacy's mom".... / Duran Duran I gotta go with "Reflex" as my favorite, but I loved Wild Boys and as for videos - Girls on Film, if nothing else because it was the first music video I ever saw that was R rated and had nudity. - -----Original Message----- From: Catherine Molanphy [mailto:catherinemolanphy@earthlink.net] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2003 3:27 PM To: Support System Subject: Re: i actually could be "stacy's mom".... / Duran Duran > From: "INMAN, DAVID B" > Is there anyone who can honestly say Duran Duran wasn't/isn't a great band? Not I. But hrmm... are our memories colored by nostalgia? I have such fond memories of hearing "New Moon on Monday" on the radio, and that "Rio" video was just *damn* exciting. Maybe they just caught the zeitgeist better than anyone else? I don't know... I'm asking. - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 16:36:25 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: Re: Liz review in Who > Sure, "Firewalker" plods, But he thinks "Rock Me" is clever... meh. - --Cath "I gotta tell you... babybabybaby..." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 17:27:27 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Griffes Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #193 I thought HWC was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek...a response to that faux "scientific study"...but each interviewer that asks never really gets her to explain what the purpose of writing and recording such a song was. she just talks about how she wants to empower women. she never actually says HOW she thinks the song empowers women. am i the only one who is thinking "where is the trojan man!?" re: VS Geez louise, Maree!? this is like the 4th bassist veruca salt has had in the past couple years. Blah. Beyond really sucks. The place where good old bands go to die...blondie, the go-gos, veruca salt... anyways, I don't believe that nina gordon went the route of "pop princess"...she went the blandish lilith fairy route...playing some of the shows, practically covering sarah maclachlan for the lead single...which indeed became a top ten hit on billboards "adult top 40". the second single also hit the top 40. she had more chart success than Resolver, and probably Eight Arms. has anyone heard lauren christy's solo albums? I didn't realize that i actually OWN a copy of "Breed" until I was perusing my collection the other day. I popped it in, and it sounds like tanya donelly gone terribly rotten. I don't understand how her record was so godawful and now she's probably a zillionaire due to her...songwriting? scary stuff. steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:08:51 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: One more Liz Article And an interesting one. http://www.eastbayexpress.com/issues/2003-07-16/music.html/1/index.html Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 20:04:48 -0400 From: Jase Subject: RE: Courtney's solo album "INMAN, DAVID B" wrote: >could this be the last if kurt's songs? Anybody who's actually listened to Hole's albums would know that the songs were written by Courtney and her band. To suggest otherwise seriously discounts the musical abilities of Eric Erlandson, Patty Schemel, Kristen Pfaff and Melissa Auf der Maur, as well as the lyric writing abilities of Ms. Love (who I personally feel is a much better lyricist than Cobain was). Also, anyone who's familiar with Hole at all knows that the bulk of _Live Through This_ (including three of the album's four singles: "Doll Parts," "Violet" and "Softer, Softest") was being performed at their shows throughout 1991, before Kurt and Courtney were a couple. Anyone who's heard _Pretty on the Inside_ (again written, recorded and released before Kurt and Courtney were a couple) can clearly see how the same imagery and themes from that album have been repeated throughout Hole's work ever since. There's no mistaking Courtney's lyrics for anything other than her own. Anyone who's heard the demos of the _Live Through This_ songs knows that that album was a hop, skip and a jump away from being a new wave record. It wasn't Kurt who "grungified" those songs for the band; that was the album's producers, Paul Kolderie and Sean Slade, who had just finished working on Radiohead's first album. The demos were more pure to Courtney's own musical inspirations -- all the new wave and post-punk bands she discovered while staying in Liverpool in the early '80s, hanging out with members of the Teardrop Explodes. Cobain wishes he could have written something as great as _Live Through This_. I can listen to it endlessly and never get sick of it; sad thing I can't say the same for his work. I do like Nirvana's albums, but I can only listen to them once before they go back on the shelf. They're not as consistent as Hole's own efforts; Cobain needed an editor. At least Courtney had three other bandmates to veto any lesser ideas. I can't wait until Courtney's album is out and knocks everyone on their asses; maybe then she'll finally get the credit she's due. The songs I've heard so far have been nothing short of brilliant; _Celebrity Skin_ was a great record, but this is the one that will up the ante. A walking study in Courtney-ology, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:57:54 EDT From: NeverTell1117@aol.com Subject: Liz-related Veruca Salt song I just bought a Veruca Salt album (Eight Arms To Hold You), and as I was looking up the band online I stumbled across this page. I thought this was interesting. Go here (http://www.louisepost.com/verucasalt.html) and look at the second "song you may or may not see on the new record". Does anyone know anything about this song?? -Robbie- ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #194 ************************************