From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #187 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, July 15 2003 Volume 06 : Number 187 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: liz at tower (jewel) [Steve Rhodes ] Bounced message [owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ] R.E.M. / other things [Catherine Molanphy ] Re: WCI's popularity [Al Madrid ] it's not in her nature [Emil Breton ] Re: R.E.M. / other things [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] liz on to 40 [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] new Billboard article [Emil Breton ] RE: WCI's popularity ["INMAN, DAVID B" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 19:51:01 -0800 From: Steve Rhodes Subject: Re: liz at tower (jewel) thanks for the tower story. Funny thing is I think Jewel opened for Liz at the Warfield in SF years ago. We had never heard of Jewel, so didn't show up until her set ended. As far as criticism, Jewel has come in for her share especially for her poetry ( slam poet Beau Sia even did a parody of her book). But the attacks on liz are harsher perhaps because more is expected of her. steve http://ari.typepad.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:33:04 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:39:20 -0700 From: pgw To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: RE: red light fever fever >Okay, now I like [Red Light Fever] a LOT. ... >Who's with me? ... >p.p.s. My Big Stinker Award still goes to "Rock Me". "I'm starting to think >that young guys rule," might very well be the most embarrassing lyric on Liz >Phair album to date. Interesting to see these two sentiments in the same message, 'cause I think that the lyric "somewhere's a place in your heart" ruins Red Light Fever, which would otherwise be a very good song. It embarrasses me more than anything else on the album, though there are plenty of honorable mentions. After my first concentrated listen, I only liked six out of fourteen songs (Red Light Fever, with major reservations over the Worst Lyric Ever, Take a Look, Little Digger [best song on album], Firewalker, Love/Hate and My Bionic Eyes.) Meanwhile, I like all the songs on the EP and if you throw in Insanity that's six right there! Down makes seven, and you get the idea: the best songs on this album got left off. By the way, I REALLY like track 3 on the EP, the title of which I can't remember. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:35:02 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "overpavement" To: Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #185 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:55:35 -0400 dumbest article on the liz controversy is in rolling stone and on rollingstone.com. doesn't even warrant a link, but basically the guy is making the same argument everyone else who feels compelled to defend this record makes: that people who don't like it are joyless snobs who spend half their day whacking off to 'exile', dreaming that liz is their girlfriend. it's silly. many people dislike the new album for many different reasons. and if they were looking for whacking material, they'd be in goo heaven right now. really, i don't know why there's this personal-attack angle to most of these articles, describing fans of 'exile' as underweight, bad-skinned boys who slouch, and girls who find sylvia plath romantic. it's like they're saying, 'no one could not like this new record unless they're shlubs. i like it. i'm not a shlub. you don't like it. ergo, you're a shlub. like it, and you'll stop being one!' and *then* they have the balls to call 'exile' or 'whip smart' or even 'wcse' fans elitists... an aging douchebag who writes for rolling stone calling other people 'elitists'. that's rich. someone wrote: >>But all of this got me thinking about it. I hope that LP does well because to support her career she's' going to need a younger fan base that can do that - - -- fill up all of her shows and buy all of her records. << from what we've seen so far, she'll do 'okay', but it's not looking good for going platinum right now. around 55,000 copies after 2 weeks and going from 27 to like 57 isn't going to cut it. but, maybe the subsequent singles and tour will boost the interest and it'll do better. i doubt they're panicking at capitol, but they can't be too thrilled when michelle branch is way out-selling liz, and without nearly the press attention. and branch's reviews are only a little better, but not much. it's just a knack some people have for writing a single and others just never will have it. 'are you happy now?' is just catchier, even if there's no logical reason for saying that. it just is. so, liz was in a tight spot from the get-go. if she couldn't make *her own* music more appealing, because she lacks the 'hit gene', then it was always going to be tough for her to make someone else's music work for her. i was reading Mojo magazine, and they have a big article on R.E.M., and they talk about the album 'document', and peter buck says, 'the first side is the best album we've ever made...the second half is weird stuff and the single. i never liked 'the one i loved' -- and apparently neither did he -- but it was a single that was appealing and popular, and still retained the essence of r.e.m. same with 'losing my religion', 'drive', and even 'everybody hurts'. (we'll just ignore shiny happy papple.) i touched on this before, but i'm still very interested that r.e.m. sold over 10 million copies of 'out of time', 'automatic', and 'monster', and no one ever accused them -- ever -- of not being totally themselves on those records. even people who didn't like 'monster' don't think they were pandering. but some of that is just the benefit and protection of being in a band, instead of a solo performer who has to be more 'out there'. i continue to pull for liz, but i was in a few different record stores (well, barnes & noble, best buy, places like that) while i was traveling over the weekend, and none of them had liz's cd featured in any way. if you looked for it, you could find it, but she is getting way more play on the apple store (where 'insanity' continues to be the most-downloaded song, and LP is usually 1st, 2nd, or 3rd on their album chart) than she's getting from the retailers i've seen. like i said, maybe the second and third singles will catch on and generate more sales -- and the touring should help too. >>The other thing that sort of has irked me lately is that Liz and Jewel are both trying to do something different from their "old" images. Why is it that Jewel's transformation seems somewhat acceptable? Sure, she had radio hits before. But maybe Liz didn't go pop enough. Imagine a Liz Phair dance album! If the secret to Madonna's success is the ability to reinvent herself, then why shouldn't Liz keep trying? (If what she wants is pop success, that is.) << jewel has several things going for her: a) she learned a lesson when some club guys remixed a song from her last album and turned it into a huge dance hit. b) she just dove right in, never 'explained' herself, and apparently made a really good dance record with smarter-than-your-average-bear lyrics. c) she has (pardon my observation) that chest, and looks great on the cover of blender and on that dumb craig kilborn show, and she just went with the whole makeover thing, flaunting it before gravity and metabolism both catch up. d) jewel is a very, very experienced performer. so, she can adopt a persona more easily than liz can. the reviews of LP that have panned it basically say the problem is that you can't find liz in half the songs on the self-titled album. if she could somehow have embraced the whole thing more thoroughly, and not relied so heavily on things like being dressed by the label and trying to sound like avril, then she could have moved to a brighter sound and she would've been fine. but there's a one-foot-in-the-water feel to her move, like she's hedging her bets, that makes it hard to accept it. and, she talks about money all the time. jewel will just say she likes dance music, wanted to try something different, and wanted to turn her image upside down. she did all those things, so people leave her alone. at this point, liz saying she doesn't care about sales numbers is like those 'charlies angels' dopes saying they didn't make the sequel for the money. they're all taking a lesson from a certain president: if at first you don't succeed, and if at second you don't succeed, then change the way you describe your goals and claim success! >> i don't even know if they are still recording and i could say anything to help this situation out. so the guys say thanks for letting us interview you and ask us to record releasees for them to use these clips any time in any way shape or form forever. the camera guy tells me taht they want to use these to put on her website soon. << i will say that capitol is spending some money and promoting liz in ways they never did before. it'll be interesting to see if they cut bait soon if the sales don't pick up. but they get some credit because their support up to now has been very strong, if a bit mis-guided in many ways. what's that line from the last episode of that old mary tyler moore show... 'when a donkey flies, you don't get mad at it because it only stayed up in the air for 20 seconds.' :) someone else wrote: >>Subject: L.A. Times article about the Matrix mentions Liz Phair. Also on VH-1's top 20 countdown this morn, during the video, Liz was able to talk about her "new" sound. Also the hosts mentioned the N.Y. Times review and Liz' letter to the editor. << yes, but the article is pretty lame. at the end the one guy in the matrix says, 'she debuted at 27, and she's never charted that high before.' yeah, maybe. but she sold fewer copies to hit #27, and she dropped 30 spots the next week. like they say, it's a marathon, not a sprint, but even marathoners aren't thrilled to fall back twice as far in the race as they were at the beginning. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:35:50 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "brynneandscott" To: Subject: The Liz Phair Debacle Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 02:53:44 -0400 Don't if people saw this but this guy isn't exactly on Liz's side. I'm still a fan. Scott Well, if Liz Phair didn't commit career suicide with her ALBUM, she CERTAINLY has with her letter in Sunday's "New York Times". Make no mistake, Liz Phair is twisting slowly in the wind. But is it HER FAULT?? I guess there's a certain demo of middle class women who need Liz Phair to talk dirty, speak their sexual fantasies. But I never got it. I mean first and foremost, the woman CAN'T SING! It would be as if you or I made a record. Oh, the concepts are good. I mean better than the gutter/back alley posing that usually passes for female rock and roll. And one has to give her credit for avoiding the female singer/songwriter ghetto. But, DOES ANYBODY TRULY CARE?? I mean is Liz Phair a major artist? No. Absolutely not. Which makes one wonder why Capitol chose to keep her and let all the other Matador acts go. Major labels need records to go platinum. Not even gold anymore, not with the marketing money they spend. Really, does anybody anywhere expect Liz Phair to go PLATINUM? Actually, I was stunned upon hearing the sales figures of her two previous albums. 400,000 and 266,000 respectively. God, if you're on an indie label, you can live QUITE handsomely on those royalties. Yes, in the indie world YOU DO get royalties. It's ALL about royalties instead of advances. Assuming, of course, your label doesn't go out of business. But Liz is on a major. And make no mistake. Liz IS NOT from the lower class world. That's one of the unspoken truths of the major label game. Hell, we can do WHATEVER we want with these acts because they DON'T KNOW BETTER! They come from nowhere, and they're going BACK TO NOWHERE! You've watched "Behind The Music". What, that guy in Flock Of Seagulls is working in a FACTORY?? Moving boxes, doing MANUAL LABOR! The lower classes live the dream. They drink, they drug, get ripped off by managers, blow all their money and...are over. Either literally dead or destitute. But Liz Phair is not lower class. No, Liz Phair is UPPER MIDDLE CLASS! Hell, she went to OBERLIN! And not being stupid, she could see...the end. Hell, read all the interviews. She says I'M A SINGLE MOM! I'VE GOT TO RAISE MY KID! Actually, I don't believe that. I believe she's the single child of a relatively well to do couple and therefore will inherit plenty of bucks, and is being shtupped the excess she might need ANYWAY! This bleeding heart story, it's b.s. to me. But, STILL, she knows the game. Which the lower class losers don't. Because she's EDUCATED! She knows that if her album doesn't go platinum...she's gonna get dropped. And then, being in her late thirties, with the tar of the major label failure, she will have lost her cred and will mean nothing in indie circles and will be DONE! Make no mistake, Liz Phair isn't worried about the money, she's worried about being OVER! No media visibility. None of the perks of Hollywood royalty. Just like you and me. Normal. Average. One of the gang. ANATHEMA to her. And THAT'S why she was amenable to selling out. Not that she sold out at first. She worked with MICHAEL PENN? I mean do you want to SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT?? The dude had ONE HIT, and only because Bob Buziak was about to lose his job and spent a fortune on a video and made the project RCA's number one priority. Still, Buziak lost his job. And Michael Penn has never meant anything since. Oh, his WIFE means a bit. But nothing near the hype. Never has someone with so little talent gotten such positive press. She was dropped from all those major labels because SHE DIDN'T DELIVER! I have no problem with her writing music for films, having an indie career...just make it so I never have to read about her in the "New York Times Magazine" ever again. I have no doubt that the Penn-produced record Phair delivered to Capitol was substandard and would have gone straight into the dumper. Because I can HEAR IT! Yes, the non-Matrix songs on this new album are music to commit suicide by...on a rainy day. Now what would a REASONABLE company President have said?? What would BOB KRASNOW have said? What would CHRIS BLACKWELL have said? What would Jerry Moss have said? They would have said the record sucked. That it wasn't her. That she should dig deep down into her soul and try to deliver the REAL HER! Think about it. Melissa Etheridge delivered a slick first album. Blackwell, who'd been ENAMORED of her live, said he didn't like it. She rerecorded it live in a weekend and...her career was begun. Sheryl Crow recorded an album that evidenced the work she'd done with Michael Jackson. That record wasn't released (actually...most of her story occurred after Jerry Moss had left A&M, but Al Cafaro had TRAINED under Jerry Moss). She went and made an EXPERIMENTAL record with a bunch of dudes in Pasadena, and VOILA! She became a star. But that was the eighties. The NINETIES! What does TODAY'S record company President say?? FUCK ART, I NEED SALES!! Yes, EVERYTHING is beholden to sales. We don't care if your next record is a hit, we don't care if we trash your career, we need hits TODAY! How else can you explain turning Jewel into Shakira? How else can you explain turning Liz Phair into Avril Lavigne? In both cases, the PURE ESSENCE of what these acts were, their CREDIBILITY, was thrust aside, in pursuit of the almighty dollar. And, what's even MORE fascinating is...these records weren't made for the audience, they were made for the RADIO! THINK about it. The rule of rock is you start with the core, the base. In BOTH these cases ANYBODY could see you were going to ALIENATE the core. That's criminal. But, what makes you think OTHERS are gonna go for it? REALLY! I mean you're trying to motivate casual buyers who, if they DO buy a record, won't buy the follow-up? This is a PLAN?? No, the rule would be to speak to the base, and then grow it. But radio doesn't PLAY this kind of music. HOW fucked up is it when a label ONLY will sign what radio will play, when KIDS are turning off the radio and radio plays hardly ANY TRACKS! Think about that. That's a recipe for DEATH! And the labels are executing it. Signing their own death warrant. And PAYING, via indie promotion, to hasten the process. One would think that the labels would say THERE MUST BE ANOTHER WAY, and try NEW avenues. But no...they don't want people exposed to things online for a low transaction fee, they want to charge a buck a track, hoping people will purchase the same lame songs they hear on the radio. And THIS is going to grow the business? And then there's the imaging. NOBODY WANTS TO FUCK LIZ PHAIR!!! Doll her up however you want. She's not a delicious babe. The attraction to her is WHAT'S BETWEEN THE EARS! Hell, she'd be better off wearing a high collar. DARING people to dig deeper, to go inside. Not only is the base offended, but the world at large. Hell, she's thirty six and she's acting like she's nineteen. It's GROSS! But is it Liz Phair's fault. No, it's Andy Slater's fault. Liz is a pawn in the Capitol game. She'll be forgotten in a few weeks. But the same bullshit system will continue. Hell, they're still trying to work LISA MARIE PRESLEY! Not that it's only about Andy Slater. It's about SO MANY LABELS! These are the dudes who did psychedelics, grew their hair long, were renegades...and now they're sold out schmucks feeding the public pabulum? Hell, they make Morris Levy look GOOD! Sure, he was a crook, but at least he knew the heat of a HIT! There's no heat in Lisa Marie Presley and no heat in this Liz Phair album. But none of the press...says anything about Andy Slater. About the system. Oh, you're railing that Disney and Viacom didn't report on the loosening of the FCC regulations?? The label publicity departments will cut off anybody who reveals the man behind the curtain. And those who aren't sucking at the corporate tit...wouldn't waste their time writing stories on such a run-down childish industry. Liz Phair made a mistake. She'll be punished for it, no doubt. Without a backbone, you sacrifice your credibility. She has. Hell, listen to the Matrix songs, she can even SING! Oh, the majesty of Pro Tools...but now she sounds just like EVERYBODY ELSE! Capitol Records made a bigger mistake. If Liz Phair gets another chance, she'll fly straight and narrow, be true to herself. Capitol Records is gonna get chance after chance after chance. And they're gonna fuck up and fumble each one. And THESE are the people crying about downloading, saying we've got to protect the artist? BALDERDASH. Lefsetz@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 05:36:34 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "John Mullaney" To: Subject: Fridays Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 09:08:04 -0400 Okay well yesterday I was at the Bar at TGI Fridays in Boston (newbury st) when Why Can't I came blasting out of their music system. Now they just subscribe to one of those music CD companies that usually provide older numbers so I was pretty friggen surprised. Liz playing now at your local TGI Fridays ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 07:34:57 -0400 From: Dominic Subject: I've got it..Read it if you want another thought on the self-titled album... Hi my friends ! I hadn't downloaded any of the new songs until I bought the new cd last week...I was pretty scared reading all those harsh reviews...but I simply had to buy it anyway...Honestly, I don't know how all this criticism came to life...It's no EIG but PLEASE it is a pretty solid album...Obviously, it blends well with today's commercial stuff...It's not as innovative or different as I would like it to be (two elements that made me like Liz in the first place) but I enjoy it a lot ! *Little Digger* and *My Bionic Eyes* were standout tracks for me after the first listen...I now feel relieved that Liz hasn't completely let me down.... Come on ! Dominic Montreal ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 08:52:24 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: liz at tower (jewel) In a message dated 7/15/03 1:21:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, srhodes@well.com writes: << But the attacks on liz are harsher perhaps because more is expected of her. >> This is exactly right. The thing is, Liz's fan base is more intelligent than your average crazed fans. I think she knows it and doesn't like it. It's also the reason many people get so defensive when someone doesn't like the new album . . . I'm gonna be frank here . . . some people just didn't get EIG, they don't understand the sheer irony of it, but get the straightforwardness of lines like "somewhere's a place in your heart." I think Liz tried to offend her fans pretty badly towards the beginning, trying to make us mad and abandon her, therefore leaving the record to people who either didn't know of her or needed a dumbed down version of her. Some guy said "what's attractive about Liz Phair is not what's between her legs but between her ears." How true that is. Only problem is that it's what's between your legs that sells . . . so Liz has to act dumber than she is to sell records. Reverse feminism? Maybe. james james ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 13:08:02 +0000 (UTC) From: Organ Man Subject: Re: red light fever fever > p.p.s. My Big Stinker Award still goes to "Rock Me". "I'm starting to think > that young guys rule," might very well be the most embarrassing lyric on Liz > Phair album to date. IMHO, the line is intended to be ridiculous. The song is about a woman picking up a guy 9 years younger than her, and the guy is more than a little clueless. "Rock me" is part of a story told in a four song series.-- WCI--falls in lust Its sweet--goes to his apartment Rock Me-- goes to bed with him (the orgasmic bridge is a nice touch) Take a look--The post-mortem where she describes her affair as "a disaster." In this context, I can' fault Rock Me's lyrics. The music was a little overdone. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:01:56 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: R.E.M. / other things > From: "overpavement" > i touched on this before, but i'm still very interested that r.e.m. sold over > 10 million copies of 'out of time', 'automatic', and 'monster', and no one > ever accused them -- ever -- of not being totally themselves on those records. Not to be nitpicky, but I remember when "Out of Time" was released there were a LOT of people accusing them of selling out. I specifically remember Michael Stipe defending himself in interviews, including his lipsyncing in the LMR video. > but there's a one-foot-in-the-water feel to her move, Mmmm... I agree totally. Something I've said about Liz ever since WCSE, and what I love about her, is she seems to NOT KNOW HOW to be mainstream. She tries really hard, but her nature leads her to be odd and subversive, without realizing it. This is a great contrast to other artists, who have to try the other way around. They're naturally conventional, and then later in their careers they go through all sorts of contortions to appear "indie" and "alternative". Liz is died-in-the-wool. > 'when a donkey flies, you don't get mad at it because it only stayed up in the > air for 20 seconds.' :) LOL! - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:31:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: WCI's popularity Here's an update on the Rate The Music section of the All Access Music Group: Despite what some of the reviewers and some fans think, Why Can't I is most popular among females 25-34 as it ranked No. 4 in popularity with 56% being familiar and 8% saying burn it (tired of). It is also quite popular with the boys. Males 18-24  it was ranked No. 8 in popularity with 88% being familiar and just 5% saying burn it. Males 18-34  No. 8 in popularity with 76% being familiar and 6% saying burn it. Males 25-34  No. 8 in pop. with 63% familiar and 8% saying burn it. Females 18-24 it only came in at No. 15 in pop with 60% familiar and 9% saying burn it. Females 18-34 it was 12th in pop. with 58% familiar and 8% saying burn it. 12 years+  No. 14 in pop. 65% familiar, 8% burn. All People 18-34  No. 10 in pop. 65% familiar, 8% burn. All People 18-49  No. 14 in pop. 64% familiar, 9% burn. All People 25-54  No. 15 in pop. 63% familiar 9% burn. Teens  No. 8 in pop. 68% familiar, 7% burn. Well, surprisingly, so far the reviewers are half wrong when they say that Liz made music for teens. Seems like Males 18-34 are really digging the song. Last week it wasn't even in the top 15 for males 25-34 and now it is #8 in that category. As I said above, Females 25-34 are WCI's biggest fans so far according to these stats. It also appears to be one of those slow-moving hits. It is the No. 8 ranked song on Star 98.7 here in L.A. jumping up two spots. Last night on the way home from running, I heard it played twice in 20 minutes. Once for just the playlist and once for the Top 5 for the Ride. This isn't even the best radio song on the album. Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 10:45:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: Re: WCI's popularity Ahh, one more thing, WCI is the only song that has been in the Top 5 for the Ride here in L.A. everyday for well over a month. :) Go Liz!!! You gave me so many fuckin great memories during my college years and taught me so much by listening to your music. I support you on this and wish you well if you can read this because I know how fuckin talented you are and everyone should know your music! :) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:34:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: it's not in her nature - --- Catherine Molanphy wrote: > Something I've said about Liz ever since WCSE, and > what I love about her, is > she seems to NOT KNOW HOW to be mainstream. She > tries really hard, but her > nature leads her to be odd and subversive, without > realizing it. True! In high school, I guess, it was easier to pretend to be stupid; all she had to do was not show up for class, and she was better-liked (or at least not as much of a pain to her classmates). Now she has to perfect the whole serious-pop-star singing thing, which involves a lot of 'sincere' smiles, come-hither looks, and head-shaking. Her terrified voice and stoner eyes were much more believable (and appealing) on late-night talk shows in 1994 than her phoney-baloney, 'suburban dimwit' "Polyester Bride" thing on Rosie O'Donnell. And even in the new publicity photos, she looks ridiculously awkward with her head cocked back in every shot. I'm sorry this sounds so harsh (like, "don't even bother trying, girlfriend, it ain't happening!"), but seriously -- it's not working. I feel sorry for her. Hoo-boy. dug the Chicago in-store report. thanks, LilRussianGirl. By the by, anyone who thinks the sales of the new album thus far are somehow impressive might be shocked to learn that Whip-smart (which some of you might remember as -- strangely enough -- much edgier fare) ALSO debuted at #27 on the Billboard Album Chart. Not sure about its first-week numbers. AND "Supernova" was a friggin' Top 10 Modern Rock HIT, with its video all over MTV (as an "Alternative Nation" staple and a "Buzz Clip" that fall, with a clip in a heavily-rotated promo commercial). So that Matrix guy was wrong, daddy, wrong. There's nothing notable about the 'success' of "WCI" or the album so far, esp. when you consider the amount of $$$ spent on the single, its video, and the album as a whole, and then compare that to Liz' commercial efforts in late '94. Sorry that this is all so negative. I wish Liz the best, I really do. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:27:41 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: Re: R.E.M. / other things In a message dated 7/15/2003 9:56:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, catherinemolanphy@earthlink.net writes: > Something I've said about Liz ever since WCSE, and what I love about her, > is > she seems to NOT KNOW HOW to be mainstream. She tries really hard, but her > nature leads her to be odd and subversive, without realizing it. My former landlord's sister (yes, I know how ridiculous that sounds, but I swear it's true) was a schoolmate of Liz's (in her graduating class in high school). How you have described her is how they described how she was perceived by them in h.s. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:34:36 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: liz on to 40 OK, I'm ignorant. So if it is being released to top 40 stations soon does that mean that in the near future I can hear Casey Casem playing Liz on his weekly countdown show soon? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 12:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: new Billboard article This is a great read, although I suspect it was conducted some time ago, given the inclusion of the quote at the very end (which appeared on billboard.com a few weeks ago). At least now we know the plan for her post-Capitol era. Phair Play: Liz Indulges In The Major Label Game By Todd Martens Capitol Records released Liz Phair's fourth album on June 24, but not too long ago the artist was fighting to get off the label. A critic's darling from the start, Capitol had expected the photogenic Phair, who's modeled for Gap and Calvin Klein, to become the next Sheryl Crow. It didn't happen. Phair's last album, 1998's "whitechocolatespaceegg," was her first without any connection to indie Matador Records. It was also her worst selling. While none of her albums have sold more than 400,000 copies in the U.S., according to Nielsen SoundScan, "spaceegg" failed to even top 300,000. Tired of the expectations, Phair wanted back in the indie world. "A few years ago I waged a campaign to get off [Capitol]," Phair says. "If I only sold 100,000 records, I'd still make more money than if I sold 1 million on a major. Major labels give you a lot of flattery and perks, but you're not an entrepreneur, and once you get in your 30s, that bothers you. It bothers me." Capitol, however, wasn't ready to cut Phair loose. Convinced that Phair could yet be made a pop star, the label introduced her to songwriting trio the Matrix, who co-wrote and co-produced much of Avril Lavigne's Arista debut "Let Go." The pairing resulted in four songs on "Liz Phair." The album sees the artist shying away from the oddball melodies and conversational lyrics that marked her earlier work. Instead, the new album is all major label gloss. "There was a period before I was working with the Matrix where Capitol kept telling me, 'Hmm, you're not quite there,'" Phair says. "That pisses me off. At one point [then Capitol president] Roy Lott was like, 'We want a verse-chorus-verse-chorus-bridge-double chorus.' So I was like, 'If that's what you want, fine.' I'm still writing all those quirky weird songs. They just don't reach people. If I'm going to be on a major label, then I'm going to be the queen bee and have fun with it." Yet how can an artist who is frustrated with the major label system be comfortable being a part of it? "I'm in a win-win situation," Phair says. "If this record goes, I can do things on my own. But if this record doesn't go, then Capitol will drop me because of the amount of money they've spent on it, and I can go to an indie." While Phair is proud of her work with the Matrix, she knew that there would be compromises. "The Matrix were told by Capitol that they would only get paid it they wrote hit-type songs," Phair says. "Don't kid yourself, that's what I'm getting told, too. I knew if I wanted promotional dollars, I would have to turn in something to get on the radio. Yet what we did was very true. "We sat with our notebooks and scribbled away and fought over lines and I kept saying I wouldn't sing something if it wasn't me," she continues. "It was a different process, but it wasn't this devil machine that came in to obliterate my point of view." It took Phair some time getting used to a pop formula, says the Matrix's Lauren Christy. "For the first single ["Why Can't I"], she was like, 'I love this, but this is such a big chorus. Can I do that?' We're like, 'Of course you can.' The song is this crazy-in-love type thing, and I think Liz was worried about that, but we told her what she's saying is really edgy ... It might sound a little bit like Avril Lavigne, but the subject matter is nothing like Avril." Phair didn't always win her arguments with the Matrix. The song "Favorite," for instance, features a chorus in which Phair repeatedly compares her lover to an undergarment. "That chorus makes me choke a little," she says. "The Matrix fought really hard, and they won. The verses, however, are totally me. I guess it's just like you're a painter, and someone says you're going to do a public works project. It's not like you can't be creative within those restrictions." Phair anticipated a backlash from longtime fans. In fact, the Chicago Tribune, Phair's hometown paper that championed her early in her career, blasted her new sound last March with a story entitled "Older, But Not Better." Reviews on the new album have generally been mixed, with most critics not knowing exactly what to make of Phair's bid for pop stardom. The L.A. Weekly, for instance, ran an unprecedented four reviews of the set, and a general consensus was still not reached. Perhaps recognizing the new album would divide long-time fans, Capitol has gone to great lengths to placate Phair's already existing fan base. The label has released a five-song, online-only EP, collecting some of the less-mainstream fare she recorded. Owners of her new album can download the songs when a purchased copy is inserted into a computer's CD-ROM drive. The online songs were originally recorded for "Liz Phair," and hint that the album was initially shaping up to be more in line with Phair's idiosyncratic past. The artist says she hopes to release more songs via her Web site throughout the year. "I have all these songs we recorded for the album, and I need to find a way to get them out with tossing them off," Phair says. "It's very confusing and difficult to know what to do with them. There will certainly be more songs on the Web, but I want to put out a lot, and I want to put out songs that are just works in progress. I'm trying to figure out how to do this." Thus far, sales for "Liz Phair" are trailing those of "spaceegg." After two weeks on The Billboard 200, "Liz Phair" has sold 55,000 copies, while the latter had moved 62,000 units in the same period. Yet there are signs that "Liz Phair" is about to pick up steam. For the first time in her career, "Why Can't I" has landed Phair a video in heavy rotation on VHI, and the song was up to No. 17 last week on Billboard sister publication Airplay Monitor's Adult Top 40 chart. More than 10 years after she released her debut album, Phair is now heard alongside recent releases from Michelle Branch and Jewel, and that's exactly what she wants. "This album represents me trying to get the voice of an authentic woman where young girls will hear it," Phair says. "I feel very frustrated with music and women and their role. I hope to God I can take my name at the end of this and make my own little recordings, but nobody made me do anything. If you hate this, point at me." Phair will launch a co-headlining U.S. tour with Jason Mraz July 21 in San Francisco. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 15:42:22 -0500 From: "INMAN, DAVID B" Subject: RE: WCI's popularity RE: Despite what some of the reviewers and some fans think, Why Can't I is most popular among females 25-34 as it ranked No. 4 in popularity with 56% being familiar and 8% saying burn it (tired of). It is also quite popular with the boys. Males 18-24  it was ranked No. 8 in popularity with 88% being familiar and just 5% saying burn it. Males 18-34  No. 8 in popularity with 76% being familiar and 6% saying burn it. Males 25-34  No. 8 in pop. with 63% familiar and 8% saying burn it. Females 18-24 it only came in at No. 15 in pop with 60% familiar and 9% saying burn it. Females 18-34 it was 12th in pop. with 58% familiar and 8% saying burn it. 12 years+  No. 14 in pop. 65% familiar, 8% burn. All People 18-34  No. 10 in pop. 65% familiar, 8% burn. All People 18-49  No. 14 in pop. 64% familiar, 9% burn. All People 25-54  No. 15 in pop. 63% familiar 9% burn. Teens  No. 8 in pop. 68% familiar, 7% burn. I wonder why none of these folks are buying the cd? 55,000 units sold to date? - -----Original Message----- From: Al Madrid [mailto:almadrid_2000@yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2003 12:31 PM To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: WCI's popularity Here's an update on the Rate The Music section of the All Access Music Group: Despite what some of the reviewers and some fans think, Why Can't I is most popular among females 25-34 as it ranked No. 4 in popularity with 56% being familiar and 8% saying burn it (tired of). It is also quite popular with the boys. Males 18-24  it was ranked No. 8 in popularity with 88% being familiar and just 5% saying burn it. Males 18-34  No. 8 in popularity with 76% being familiar and 6% saying burn it. Males 25-34  No. 8 in pop. with 63% familiar and 8% saying burn it. Females 18-24 it only came in at No. 15 in pop with 60% familiar and 9% saying burn it. Females 18-34 it was 12th in pop. with 58% familiar and 8% saying burn it. 12 years+  No. 14 in pop. 65% familiar, 8% burn. All People 18-34  No. 10 in pop. 65% familiar, 8% burn. All People 18-49  No. 14 in pop. 64% familiar, 9% burn. All People 25-54  No. 15 in pop. 63% familiar 9% burn. Teens  No. 8 in pop. 68% familiar, 7% burn. Well, surprisingly, so far the reviewers are half wrong when they say that Liz made music for teens. Seems like Males 18-34 are really digging the song. Last week it wasn't even in the top 15 for males 25-34 and now it is #8 in that category. As I said above, Females 25-34 are WCI's biggest fans so far according to these stats. It also appears to be one of those slow-moving hits. It is the No. 8 ranked song on Star 98.7 here in L.A. jumping up two spots. Last night on the way home from running, I heard it played twice in 20 minutes. Once for just the playlist and once for the Top 5 for the Ride. This isn't even the best radio song on the album. Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #187 ************************************