From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #186 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, July 15 2003 Volume 06 : Number 186 Today's Subjects: ----------------- school's out--what did you expect? ["dana p." ] Yahoo!'s Picks of the Week slams Liz (fwd) [Steve Rhodes ] WCI radio update [Al Madrid ] Re: WCI radio update [Organ Man ] liz at tower, more. ["christine m." ] Washington Post article [Catherine Lewis ] wtmx show [robert joyner ] Insanity ["Jon Burk" ] Re: Insanity [ewest ] Re: Insanity [Brett Jones ] The album [s.fried@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au] red light fever fever [Catherine Molanphy Subject: school's out--what did you expect? [> The other thing that sort of has irked me lately is that Liz and Jewel are > both trying to do something different from their "old" images. Why is it that > Jewel's transformation seems somewhat acceptable? 'Cuz Jewel always wrote crap music and crap poetry and nobody expects much out of her anyway. (Well, okay, *I* don't expect much out of her.) Jewel was *always* just posing at being "indie" and thoughtful and insightful, so her seeming move to popify her image is really no change at all. Perhaps she's just being more honest now.... she always was just a piece of ass and nothing more, maybe she's finally come to grips with it. That said, I really have no problem with Liz going for the big bucks. I think it's something I've said on this list already, but maybe it bears repeating. As I said in another post, I kind of take a perverse thrill in the thought of her managing to pull the wool over the eyes of mainstream music, posing as a pop princess.] i pretty much agree with the jewel thing. i don't know if i'd necessarily call it crap, but she never came close to liz's insight and wordplay and sense of humor. i don't think she was ever "posing"; she was very earnest. she's just not as good a writer. [she has a very lovely voice, though....] same thing with sheryl crow. i'm so relatively uninterested in both musically that i couldn't care less if they "sell out" or pose for maxim or do a "diva show" or whatever. par for the course, as far as i'm concerned. plus, both are enormously successful anyway, so, it's totally moot--there's really no issue of "selling out" for either one of them. for liz, on the other hand, it's a different story because she's a unique talent. and i don't think for a minute that's she's "in control" and playing the game to a T. don't kid yourself. there'll be no sweet revenge here because it's all so transparent, even to those adults who are unfamiliar with her earlier work. [the teen audience, on the other hand, they're dumb] it's desperate measures at this point. that's why people are pissed. like i've said a million times, if EIG went platinum, none of this would be happening. and, you know, no one hates HER; it's this whole situation with the marketing and the hard sell. that stuff turns alot of people off. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 01:33:39 -0800 From: Steve Rhodes Subject: Yahoo!'s Picks of the Week slams Liz (fwd) - --- begin forwarded text Subject: Yahoo!'s Picks of the Week (July 14, 2003) Here's the latest email installment of Yahoo! Picks. Thank you for your interest in our feature. As always, you can access the full document that surrounds these picks online at: http://picks.yahoo.com/picks/ I Despise You and Your So-called Taste http://www.chthonicionic.net/bile/ New albums come out all the time, and many of them deserve to be lambasted by rock fans and critics (take note, Liz Phair). But what if you opened your favorite music magazine and found every album review filled with vitriol and rage? We've found such a site, featuring a critic who proudly states, "I despise you and I hate your taste in music." And he knows his stuff. Type in a band, singer, song, or album, and he'll come back with a review laden with disgust. For instance, he says Metallica "sound like a dawn chorus of cats slowly being ground into mince for the cheap meat market." Talk about St. Anger. How about Grammy Award-winning Norah Jones? Everyone likes her, right? Not this guy, who compares her tunes to the "little ticking noise that maggots make as they feed." The reviews are harsh, and profanity is occasionally used to get the point across, but this unnamed critic's bitter cynicism results in shocking entertainment. - --- end forwarded text ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:47:18 -0400 From: "trent [hardcore since '74l]" Subject: Liz article @ MTV.com Liz Phair Defends Pop Album, Chooses Tour Over Exile 07.14.2003 7:55 AM EDT Liz Phair Photo: Andrew Shapter for MTV.com "You don't get the full impact until you actually go through it, but I definitely knew we were going to get heat." - Liz Phair Anyone familiar with Liz Phair's indie-rock touchstone Exile in Guyville probably isn't surprised by the stiff wall of criticism that came with the release of her self-titled fourth album. And no one could have seen it coming as well as Phair herself. "You don't get the full impact until you actually go through it," she said, "but I definitely knew we were going to get heat." The heat - cold criticism, really - stems from the marked musical change best exemplified by the album's first single, "Why Can't I?," which was co-written by songwriting trio the Matrix. Yes, the same Matrix who helped Avril get "Complicated," and the similarities between the two are impossible to overlook. Acoustic guitar lays the foundation for each tune, and a similar vocal cadence leads into the choruses, both of which are punctuated by a crunchy electric guitar. Compared to the lo-fi sound of the decade-old Guyville, Liz Phair, released June 24, sounds as polished and detailed as a cherry red Corvette. And while Guyville contained what could be construed as love songs, none were so saccharinely blatant as lines like "Why can't I breathe whenever I think about you?" from Phair's current single. Thus the question on the minds of Phair pundits is: After three albums that awarded her the title of dreamy indie queen (among other things), has Liz Phair become so desperate for a mainstream single that she's resorted to "selling out" with those responsible for "Sk8er Boi"? The move toward a more radio-friendly sound isn't so much desperation as it is evolution, Phair explained. "[The change] is both a feature of how long it was between records," she said, referring to the five-year gap since whitechocolatespaceegg, "and also me kind of pulling out of a specific scene. I mean, I've been out of this indie scene for a long time, and I think people don't know that. And because I am the kind of person that still likes Wilco and I've just played some shows with the Flaming Lips, there is this thing about me that I think people don't know. And that's that I enjoy both radio hits and kind of obscure music. And maybe on this record they are hearing more of my tastes swinging to a range that they are not comfortable with." Collaborating with the Matrix wasn't as difficult as one might assume for Phair, who's previously taken co-songwriting credit only sparingly. It helped that she called Lauren Christy, Scott Spock and Graham Edwards friends before she knew them collectively as the Matrix. "I went to meet the Matrix," she recalled, "and once I opened the door and saw who it was ... [I realized] I had known them already, I just didn't know what they did for a living. And so I was immediately very sure that it would be a positive creative experience. I trusted them." Together they composed four of the album's 14 tracks, and Phair considers them among most dynamic tunes in her repertoire. They're at least the biggest departure. And they're also the best evidence of her new direction, and what she looks forward to playing most when she embarks on a five-week tour on July 21, even if some of the audience bought tickets solely for the chance to hear Phair classics like "F--- and Run," "Flower" and "Supernova." "I love those songs when I hear them. They are some of the things I like to sing live the best because they are challenging vocal exercises," she said. "They're just fabulous and just send me into a whole different place artistically. "But that's not what people [who've only heard 'Why Can't I?'] are experiencing yet. They are just kind of getting a record and hearing that these are the people who produced Avril, and they're spinning out a little bit. And I think what will happen over the next year is, when people hear me live and hear the old songs next to the new songs, it's really a pretty good blend. Like, 'Wow, live it all makes sense.' " Liz Phair tour dates, according to Capitol Records: 7/21 - San Francisco, CA @ The Fillmore 7/22 - Portland, OR @ Crystal Ballroom 7/23 - Seattle, WA @ The Showbox 7/26 - Tempe, AZ @ Marquee Theatre 7/27 - Las Vegas, NV @ House of Blues 7/28 - Salt Lake City, UT @ Zephyr Club 7/30 - Denver, CO @ Paramount Theatre 8/1 - Dallas, TX @ Granada Theatre 8/2 - Austin, TX @ Stubb's 8/3 - Houston, TX @ Verizon Wireless Theater 8/5 - St. Louis, MO @ The Pageant 8/6 - Cleveland, OH @ Agora Theater 8/10 - New York, NY @ Bowery Ballroom 8/12 - Philadelphia, PA @ Electric Factory 8/13 - New York, NY @ Roseland Ballroom 8/16 - Washington, DC @ 9:30 Club 8/17 - Boston, MA @ Avalon 8/21 - Chicago, IL @ Metro 8/22 - Chicago, IL @ Metro 8/25 - Detroit, MI @ St. Andrews Hall 8/26 - Indianapolis, IN @ The Vogue 8/28 - Minneapolis, MN @ First Avenue - -Joe D'Angelo ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:03:47 -0400 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: Liz's guitarist from what i understand, the guitarist (bassist?) for Liz @ her Tower Records performance was Jason Narducy of Verbow. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 09:47:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: WCI radio update For anyone who is interested: It had lost some speed last week with no stations picking it up and had fallen off the Jump and Taking Off charts on the All Access Music Group's web site. However, it has now reappeared on both as two new stations have picked it up totaling 80 stations in all and 1397 spins around the country. It is No. 17 having been 18 last week on the Hot AC Charts and is scheduled for a release date to the Top 40 Mainstream stations on July 16. My belief is, after reading many different msg. boards, i.e. VH-1,etc. and reviews from Amazon, Yahoo, etc., that a lot people folks who hear it, really like WCI (and I'm not talking about her the "old" fans because they are the only ones that give the album 1 stars when reviewing) Some guy wrote that he really likes the song and that it is cool, but he wants to hear the next single before he buys the album. Extraordinary will get these kind of folks to buy the album. That song is awesome. I don't care what anyone says about it. It is one of my all-time fav Liz songs. the guitar riffs on it are so cool and the drums are too and it 100 times better than Complicated! Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 17:14:55 +0000 (UTC) From: Organ Man Subject: Re: WCI radio update WCI is getting play time in Chicago on the pop stations. FYI, my wife, who has less ecletic tastes than mine, likes the CD. She did not particularly care for Liz's other music. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:46:21 -0500 From: "christine m." Subject: liz at tower, more. I also was at the Tower to see Liz. The first few posts mostly summed it up. I got there at 5:55....didn't think I would get it, as the line was across the balcony, down the stairs, and around the building. I got it, but was way in the back and could not see anything. I did get to say hello, and get a CD signed later on, too. My friend - a new fan - could not believe how short Liz is, and commented on it. She then showed us her huge high heels. It made his day, he's in love now too. I'm sure there are pleanty of people going to the concerts, and i haven't had time to read the list regularly, but are any of you planning on meeting up before/after the concert to hang out? I'll be at the Thursday and Saturday ones.....and the Friday if I can get my hands on tickets. Does anyone want to make some sort of shirt to commemorate the event...something like "Phair Tour 2003" ? Just an idea... Christine - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:47:11 -0500 (CDT) From: Catherine Lewis Subject: Washington Post article http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A43833-2003Jul11.html Haven't seen this article posted here yet, so I thought I'd pass it along. Segal (music editor for Wash Post) is notoriously an idiot, but it's an interesting read, even though it doesn't say anything. A couple of points to mention: 1) That's the most Sheryl Crow-looking photograph of Liz Phair I've ever seen. Nice fact-checking. 2) Nice fact-checking on the title of Liz Phair's first record. 3) One would think that since he devotes quite a bit of time talking about Phair and about Sheryl's "C'mon C'mon" that he might've mentioned that Phair sings on it, but, y'know, you can't have everything. Wash Post online is free, but you might have to enter in your zip code before they let you see that article. Catherine. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 11:32:30 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: wtmx show for those who don't know.....the wtmx show is available over at Michael's Supernova LPE site in mp3 and oog. cool interview plus Acoustic WCI, Extra, and Supernova. If anyone has any other liz shows so far (Palladium show , Bonaroo, etc) it would be cool if they could up them to Brett's 5foot2 ftp site. Thanks for hosting all that cool Liz stuff, Brett. You rule! later Robert ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Supernova Discussion Board http://supernova.board.dk3.com/2/ - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 13:44:20 -0500 From: "Jon Burk" Subject: Insanity For those of you PC users begging for Insanity, it is now up on the 5foot2 ftp site at ftp://ftp.5foot2.com/pub/liz/ Download INSANITY2, as INSANITY is incomplete. Thanks to Myron for uploading and to Brett for hosting and to me for coordinating the transaction. ;) Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 12:04:01 -0700 From: ewest Subject: Re: Insanity What are the unknown tracks? is there a complete set out there? On Monday, July 14, 2003, at 11:44 AM, Jon Burk wrote: > For those of you PC users begging for Insanity, it is now up on the > 5foot2 > ftp site at ftp://ftp.5foot2.com/pub/liz/ > > Download INSANITY2, as INSANITY is incomplete. Thanks to Myron for > uploading > and to Brett for hosting and to me for coordinating the transaction. ;) > > Jon ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 15:55:40 -0400 From: Brett Jones Subject: Re: Insanity The partial INSANITY.mp3 has been deleted. I renamed INSANITY2.mp3 to INSANITY.mp3. Jon Burk wrote: > For those of you PC users begging for Insanity, it is now up on the 5foot2 > ftp site at ftp://ftp.5foot2.com/pub/liz/ > > Download INSANITY2, as INSANITY is incomplete. Thanks to Myron for uploading > and to Brett for hosting and to me for coordinating the transaction. ;) > > Jon - -- Brett Jones brett@5foot2.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2003 11:44:26 +1000 From: s.fried@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au Subject: The album Finally got the album Saturday, went into it with REALLY low expectations and let me say those expectations have been met. The one word that comes to mind re this album is: bland. To my ears it's just boring, it's not good pop, it's not even catchy. The only songs I like are Take a look, Little Digger, Firewalker, Why Can't I and to some extent Extraordinary and Rock Me. Is it just me or does the intro to Extraordinary sound like the Smashing Pumpkins? Like the Everlasting Gaze? (I'm sure ole Billy would love to hear that). There's another song on it that reminds me heaps of that Everclear song Wonderful, can't remember which one though. Anyways I will be really surprised if this album is a big hit cause quite frankly Avril's songs are better pop songs than these, they're at least catchy. I know if I'm in the mood for pop I listen to the Corrs or the Tuesdays - maybe Liz should have enlisted the help of the Corrs if she wanted to make a pop record, I'm sure they would have d! one a far better job than the Matrix. The artwork is just embarrassing, almost as embarrassing as the Favourite and H.W.C. (Liz is joking in that song right? I mean the best magazine advice...???) songs. I noticed that it was (partially?) done by Mary Fagot who also did Black Rebel Motorcycle Club's artwork - who are also on Capitol. No wonder BRMC look like such posers if their artwork/photography was done by, I'm assuming, a Capitol person. I don't think the Michael Penn produced songs sound anything like Aimee Mann either. As a friend says I'm just gonna pretend this album didn't happen as it is going straight into the disillusioned pile only to be listened to once in a blue moon and at that, only to a few songs on it. Haven't been able to access the EP but the EP better be worth the money I spent on buying the cd new, I should have waited till I found it 2nd-hand. At least I got it discounted...Sally "Won't you come on down to my rescue?" Echo and the Bunnymen ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:10:36 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: red light fever fever Okay, now I like this song a LOT. The production on LP is a little too sweetly slick, but it doesn't completely ruin it. I think I'd like to hear all SIX differently produced versions. Who's with me? ;^) - --Catherine p.s. My updated "list": Insanity, H.W.C., Bionic Eyes, Shallow Opportunities, Red Light Fever, Friend of Mine, Firewalker, Take A Look. Honorable mention for single potential: Extraordinary p.p.s. My Big Stinker Award still goes to "Rock Me". "I'm starting to think that young guys rule," might very well be the most embarrassing lyric on Liz Phair album to date. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 22:07:11 EDT From: NeverTell1117@aol.com Subject: re: red light fever fever definately! I can't get enough of the alternate version, and I like the album version as well. - -robbie- ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #186 ************************************