From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #178 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, July 7 2003 Volume 06 : Number 178 Today's Subjects: ----------------- re: "Friend Of Mine" / published review ["Chris DeLisle" ] friend of mine [Dan MacDonald ] Re: support-system-digest V6 #177 [XMystery79@aol.com] from today's boston globe [robert joyner ] i don't have cancer, i AM one.... ["dana p." ] [none] ["Jessica Corso" ] Re: Subject: guys, it's just pop music ["jeF kearns" ] alternate album sequence [robert joyner ] Bounced message [owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase Subject: re: "Friend Of Mine" / published review Catherine, i absolutely love "Friend of Mine" ~ it's one of my favorites on the record. re: it's a song you could easily overlook because the lyrics are nothing special well, i'm going to have to disagree with you in that i don't think the lyrics are "nothing special." in Bob Dylan's canon, the "Nashville Skyline" and "John Wesley Harding" albums are still viewed as classic albums, but most all of the lyrics on those two albums are simple in comparison to his 1965-66 output. the "Liz Phair" album is definitely simpler lyrically, but it doesn't mean it's always less artistic. at the risk of being laughed at by Emil, i think "Friend of Mine" is actually quite profound on the subject of friendship. especially in regards to relationships involving significant others and spouses, i think. the whole idea of friendship being a foundation towards those kinds of relationships usually gets lost amid all the fighting, arguing, petty shit, games and eventual dissolution or divorce. when she sings "it's been so long since you've been a friend to me"...that's the line that kills me. i've had far too many relationships (some weirder, some more intimate, some with male friends, some with female friends) since "wcse" came out that have ended or been truncated a little bit, and i guess "Friend of Mine" is my "Little Digger" emotionally. for anyone who would like to read a positive review on the record, you might want to head over to: http://www.ent-today.com/6-27-03/disc-domain.htm#liz to read a first-time published aspring writer ~ namely, me. if it's a poor link, i'll copy the review here in the future. it's not an excellent piece of writing, but it's kind of a thrill to see your own name in lights... chris deLisle ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 00:59:02 -0700 (PDT) From: bmad Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #177 yeah, you're right robert and i apologize. i guess a couple of things in the digest last night inspired me to post, but i will try to move on. the only thing you are wrong about is that it wasn't me who made a similar post a month ago (as far as i remember) which makes me unoriginal and apparently less funny also. much respect to whomever i was unintentionally copying. i promise to try to remain more current in the future. in the spirit of which, my thoughts on the new songs are that i really like them. you are so right about the carly simonish (carole kingish?) vibe on Insanity, which makes me like it even more. i have to say, i'm a little sick of hurricane cindy by now, and this isn't my favorite version of it, but otherwise the EP is great. despite its total nonsense, jeremy engle actually has a lot of meat to it, i think, and it's catchy in spite of itself. convo between two bouncers has really crystalized into something fantastic. it might be my favorite song on here, and i never liked it before. maybe i just wasn't listening closely enough. does anyone else think that Fine Again is the perfect third song in a triptych that begins with You Have No Idea and Beginning to See the Light? They seem to plot the course of a relationship, and they're very musically linked. maybe it's because i just had kind of an awful breakup situation, but i personally find Fine Again to be kind of depressing. it seems to be about that period after breaking up (or at the very end of a relationship) where you try to convince yourself that you might just be able to work things out, that things aren't over even though it's so obvious that they are. anyway, i think these three songs are the beginning, middle and end of one story. i'm so desperate now to hear the other demos... the tell me i'm a liar song is really awesome, and i like this version of red light fever better too, in some ways. i kind of think we should have a contest to see who can come up with the best alternate album sequence. my nomination for a title: IT'S A WAR. bennett >robert joyner wrote... > >c'mon bennett, that post is like so last month! in >that it was much funnier when you posted much the same >mocking sentiment last month. > >i don't like the new album very much either but i >believe in kindness to animals, so i won't bother >beating a dead horse. this new stuff that is leaking >out to me is a much more constructive use of my time. SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 10:39:16 -0400 From: Mariam Hamou Subject: Re: guys, it's just pop music Lisa, why are you on this list? Plus, how old are you? Your writing sounds like you're in that perfect "April Lavine" demographic. We have NO issue with you buying the new Liz Phair, on the contrary, the fact that you buy the cd will fund her side projects like the EP - however, you have no place criticizing a group of people that understand Liz's true potential as a songwriter because they expect more from her than pop tunes. Furthermore, I guess it does not matter to you that there are entire disciplines in academia which create discourse on Music, Art, Literature, Film and other forms of expressive media - they're probably "deluded losers" to you too. Lisa, I'm not wasting my time disagreeing with you because your argument is silly - but what I do think you should be weary of is that critical cognizance is essential when trying to articulate your opinion. Do you understand from what you've said that you discredited something you participate in? I'm going to stop now (because I could just go on for pages). Mariam Sometimes a dream makes you slave ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 11:58:57 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: friend of mine catherine wrote: Anyone else grooving on this song? Almost has a Whip Smart feel to it... it's a song you could easily overlook because the lyrics are nothing special, but I like the sound with the lazy, grinding tempo, and also the guitar solo, which is rare for me to appreciate. this is by far my favorite song on the album, hands down. at first listen it did nothing for me, and the appeal just crept up on me. it grew on me so much, it prompted me to burn a copy of the song - JUST that song - onto a disc and mail it to my friend who i haven't spoken to in a few years. just the whole "it's been so long since you've been a friend of mine......what happend? when did you let go of me..." etc... the lyrics are just so plain - it reminds me of the directness on exile in guyville that i loved so much. just plain, simple and to the point. and yeah - that guitar solo is fantastically fun. I also think we should all start making it our mission in life to find copies of the Julie Johnson songs. I'm still dying to see that movie too. also - to the girl who started the whole "it's just pop music it doesn't matter/it's not the cure for cancer" thing - i agree in part. yeah - it sucks that liz's new album is about as edgey as a pair of lefty scissors - and at times the production is so slick that it is borderline slimy - but five years down the road - i don't think i'll be losing any sleep over it. big deal she wants to make money. she's still making good art - the EP is proof of that. as for music "not mattering" - fuck that. one of the reasons i'm alive today is music. speaking of which, i'm going to see the Gossip tonight - and then again tomorrow in London!! can't wait!! laters. dan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:03:43 EDT From: XMystery79@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #177 In a message dated 7/6/2003 1:16:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: > > everyone who thinks that liz phair's new album is "boring and derivative" > need to get a life. i'm sure all you people who are saying she is just like > april lavine probably even like to sing along to pink when you are in your car. > what hypocrites you are. if you like pink enough to sing along to her in > your car, why can't you accept Liz Phair being influenced by April Lavine? > pink is a pop sensation and april lavine is a pop sensation, and they are very > alike in the sense that they both sing on radio hits, so why shouldn't Liz > Phair copy April if you like to sing along to pink? > > I just joined this list and consider myself more of a casual fan of Liz Phair, I became interested in her music after seeing her open for Alanis Morrisette a few years ago (she was way better than AM was) and picked up WCSE after that, then I saw her play lilith fair in 99 and figured she was a pretty good artist. Like most people I kept hearing a new album was coming out and kept getting delayed, and maybe 2 weeks ago I was actually aware it was finally out. I almost bought the edited copy before I realized it. I had read a review about it sounding Avril-ish but personally I don't have a problem with Avril Lavigne so that didn't bother me. I really only saw hints of it as Liz has a very unique voice. I guess I had no real expectations so I enjoy the album. I mean Rock me is just a funny, self deprecating kind of song that you don't hear too often. Sometimes people need a break from all the seriousness. I run the Sheryl Crow mailing list and to a lesser extent people were saying the same things when C'mon C'mon came out-it's too poppy, it's not as good as The Globe Sessions, etc. In the meantime they neglected to listen to the lyrics in some of the "poppy" songs and Weather Channel is just a depressing piece-but there are those who feel justified in judging and album by it's single and you can't persuade them from their dead set opinions. Some people have a hard time dealing with the fact that music isn't static. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 11:45:03 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: from today's boston globe CRITIC'S NOTEBOOK Change? How dare they? Career makeovers, whether popular or not, take courage By Matthew Gilbert, Globe Staff, 7/6/2003 When Jefferson Airplane sang ''Life is change, how it differs from the rocks'' back in 1968, it had uptight squares -- and not Liz Phair -- in mind. The hippie band, which changed into Jefferson Starship and then simply Starship before changing back into Jefferson Airplane, was rooting for the power of reinvention -- and not the rocker who gave birth to the 1998 CD ''whitechocolatespaceegg.'' But the lyric could easily be dusted off and used as a defense plea by Phair, who is currently on trial by critics and fans for her recent rock shape-shift. The revered indie voice of anger and lust on 1993's ''Exile in Guyville,'' Phair has just released a high-gloss pop album that is quickly exiling listeners to bummersville. With the have-we-met-before title of ''Liz Phair,'' it is her strained effort to become exactly the kind of Britney-Christina-Avril doll that her listeners have praised her for not being. See Liz dull her verbal edge, see Liz torque up her world-weary vocals, see Liz get produced beyond recognition. Amid the vitriolic debate about Phair, who recently answered a drubbing in The New York Times with a letter attacking the drubber, Meghan O'Rourke, I'd like to be fair to Phair. It is true that, with the exception of two or three tracks, her ''Liz Phair'' reinvention has been a creative failure, a 36-year-old's attempt to airbrush 18 years from her face, her mind, and her lexicon. But at least Phair has the cojones -- and I don't think the woman who wrote a song like ''Flower'' would mind my use of the word -- to defy expectations, to do something out of character, to resist the critical-darling indie-queen pigeonhole created for her by others. Phair deserves credit for doing what she wants, even if what she wants isn't particularly cool. Joni Mitchell faced the same kind of flak in the mid-1970s, when she tired of her role as the melodic folkie in cork sandals and patchouli. She left many fans and critics behind as she explored jazz, African rhythms, and a more nuanced vocal delivery on albums that, in retrospect, are among her best. Which is not to say that ''Liz Phair'' will prove to be ahead of its time, as Mitchell's ''The Hissing of Summer Lawns'' did, unless the future is all about teenybopper cash-ins. But Mitchell's career has been more fruitful in the long run because of her unpredicted detours and, yes, her garish missteps, which included a few grabs for radio airplay. Rickie Lee Jones, too, pulled a major stylistic switcheroo, abandoning her slurry boho identity in 1997 on ''Ghostyhead,'' a fine, trip-hoppy journey that left her fans perplexed. Either chastened or tapped out, Jones has released only an album of cover songs and an early live recording since ''Ghostyhead.'' Neil Young is currently reminding audiences that he's an artist who refuses to be pinned to the wall. His summer tour is with Crazy Horse, but instead of performing their predictable rock classics, he and the band are unveiling Young's ''Greendale,'' a concept album that won't be in stores until August. The shows feature actors and dancers, a story line about smalltown America, and an appearance by Satan. It's all as unexpected as Young's computerized digressions were when he released ''Trans'' in 1982. Fans often feel hostile toward artistic changes in direction, like parents whose children are misbehaving. We fit our icons into boxes on our music racks, or on our bookshelves, or in our video cabinets, so that when Harrison Ford decides to play a romantic lead, we look away. We forget that these artists may be bored delivering the same old same old -- even if we aren't tired of receiving it. They want to stay interested in their work, to protect themselves from cruising on automatic pilot. I remember turning up my nose at Nicolas Cage, who fled the indie film world after his ''Leaving Las Vegas'' Oscar to become the post-Schwarzenegger-Stallone action hero du jour in movies such as ''Con Air'' and ''The Rock.'' Why would he stop playing interesting losers to inhabit wooden men wielding guns and catchphrases? Along with the financial advantages, Cage, who occasionally still works on less formulaic projects like ''Adaptation,'' may have needed to escape his eccentric routine, to play to the mainstream. He may have needed to explore another side of his talent. That's what Bob Dylan was doing so famously at the Newport Folk Festival in 1965, when he came out as an electric rocker to audience boos. And that was what Dylan was doing again in the late 1970s and early 1980s, when he threw audiences off balance by celebrating his newfound born-again Christianity in his music. ''More of same'' is a mantra in the world of entertainment, where all good -- and bad -- things must not pass unrepeated and uncloned. The big message directed to artists -- not only from audiences, but from labels and studios and networks -- is for them to maintain their brand, to remain safely commodified. When reality TV succeeds, make more of it; when movie sequels top the gross charts, clog multiplexes with them; when the Rolling Stones sell out stadiums, keep Mick strutting. It took a lot of self-possession for Martin Scorsese to go against type to make ''The Age of Innocence,'' for Bruce Springsteen to quiet down with ''Nebraska,'' and for R.E.M. to forsake hook-driven rock to foray into the ambient, electronic worlds of ''Up'' and ''Reveal.'' One of the most exciting moments on TV last season came courtesy of ''Alias'' creator J.J. Abrams, who boldly decided to reinvent his series smack in the middle of its second year. Not only did Abrams throw his male and female heroes into a love affair (instead of endlessly dragging out their flirtation like most TV writers), he trashed the overarching double-agent premise that defined the series. It was an exhilarating turn, a risky move that has only improved the product. Makeover for the sake of makeover is a trickier activity, something willful pop figures like Madonna overdo to hide their lack of artistic center. They are practiced in the art of distracting us with allusive poses and costuming. But redirection can be a great thing, even when it's as unsatisfying and potentially financially motivated as ''Liz Phair.'' If the Liz Phairs of the entertainment world don't risk making mistakes, they run the risk of sounding like broken records. Matthew Gilbert can be reached at gilbert@globe.com. ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Supernova Discussion Board http://supernova.board.dk3.com/2/ - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 14:56:40 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: i don't have cancer, i AM one.... [Personally I have no problem with the system as it istoday. The artists I want to give my money to aregetting itas opposed to before when I wouldn't buy anyCD's unless they were by established acts and I'dheard 4 or 5 tracks from it. I'm completely againstthe RIAA's arguments because despite the validity oftheir claims it all boils down to, "oh wait, thesepeople aren't letting us screw them anymore" As far as artists getting paid is concerned, to methey've got to earn it. If they make good music, I'llbuy it if not I'm gonna delete the mp3's anyway.] well, i'm talking more about the atrocious business practices of the labels, which has been discussed at length on this list many times over the years. the way labels run their "business," in terms of managing their "properties," is a million times worse than the old movie studio system back in the '30s and '40s. i'm talking specifically about the practice of signing over copyright. as i understand it, when you sign with a label, any material created while said artist is under contract belongs to the label. basically you get the situation where the product that the label is distributing and promoting *would not even exist* without the artist having first created it, but too bad, once you sign your deal with the devil.... you're screwed in so many ways. especially if you don't become some superstar group that can fill stadiums. as far as i know, for the rest of 'em, they make no money from CD sales at all because of the fee structure; it's all from touring--extensively. middle and upper management live like fat cats while musicians are stuggling to survive. it's bullshit. *** i live in san diego and one thread i ran into on the Velvet Rope board was "what ever happened to san diego?," 'cause the scene here was touted, in the early 90s, as "the next seattle." and, indeed, there were quite a few really good bands here. well, i'll tell you what happened to san diego. as it turns out, i worked with a guy who was in a band called inch; a bunch of other people i worked with knew a bunch of other people in all the other noteworthy bands at the time. i knew/knew about people in three bands that got signed. it was all very exciting. and then, sure enough--and not like they weren't prepared--they each got boned, thoroughly. the stories are no different from the other horror stories outlined on this list. same deal: they got the money to make their first CD, tours were promised, tours were cancelled, follow-up CDs were promised, follow-up CDs were cancelled and on and on. i don't know if they ended up owing money, but i wouldn't be surprised. at all. in the end, each band was unceremoniously dropped. see ya.... *** i know there was talk of all these musicians forming some kind of collective; i don't know what happened with that. i just read, on the rope, about morrissey's plans to release new material in september and that he signed with a new label; i read the same thing about shelby lynne (which, ha ha, is something i probably WILL buy upon release; i'm wondering if liz felt she could blow off shelby based on her most recent "love, shelby" instead of "i am".... which is *totally* interesting if you know anything about those two releases), who'll be releasing her new stuff through--tah dah--capitol. they're releasing it as is; they're not sexing her up at all, prolly 'cause "love, shelby" tanked.... anyway, people kept saying, "geez, why don't they just distribute it themselves?" which always sounds like a good idea, and i know i keep citing ani difranco on that one, but ani's a force of nature, for chrissakes.... so i can see how these people get stuck. i wish there was a better way, i really do. *** very funny, bennett ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 18:18:51 -0400 From: "Jessica Corso" Subject: [none] >I'm really interested in what songs make people cry and why? I haven't cried to Liz in years, but I did last night driving down I-95 on my way home listening to Exile. Just a little teary, especially when the sun was setting and the wind got cooler and "Shatter" came on...I guess partly because it's the beginning of a month long separation w/my significant other, and I knew I was going home to an empty house.....but anyway it was quite beautifu. Jessical _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:43:28 +0000 From: "jeF kearns" Subject: Re: Subject: guys, it's just pop music Actually, music is a cure for cancer. It has been shown that certain frequencies disintegrate cancer cells. For example when the Ionian scale was sung into Hela cancer cells, their structure disorganized very quickly. When the Ionian scale was played on the xylophone ... fourteen minutes was enough to explode cancer cells. Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:09:33 -0700 (PDT) From: bmad Subject: guys, it's just pop music Hey everyone, I think that with all the controversy on the list lately, everyone should step back for a moment, take a deep breath, and remember something very important: music does NOT MATTER. music is NOT a cure for cancer, _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 22:56:45 +0000 From: "jeF kearns" Subject: online EP problems Is anyone else having trouble with the online EP? I keep getting a message that my disc authentication fails (but it's the original copy). I really want to hear this thing. Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:49:06 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: alternate album sequence this one is for you, bennett, my alternate album sequence. more of a linear, conceptual album.... burn this to cd and see how you like it folks. good mix of the high and low art from all these recording sessions. 1 - why can't I - Liz telling how it felt in the moment. being unfaithful to your current partner, but totally smitten with a new love. 2 - Shallow Opportunity - Liz looking back at the same situation with a more cynical dissection of how it all went down. 3- It's sweet - this new guy is a sublime roll in the hay 4- Bouncer's conversation - the first cracks and fissures in the relationship. told from the third person perspective of the bouncer observing the lady being stood up. 5- Tell me I'm a liar - Something isn't jibing here. Your story doesn't hold water mister. 6- Down - She's being cheated on, told from liz's perspective. I know you know her around from the way she's so familiar. I'm hearing lies, I'm feeling the sting of surprise 7- Red Light Fever- Cheating from his perspective. His brain racked from indecision. 8- Firewalker- My hopes are like embers, and you step on them like they are dead. 9- Friend of Mine - the title says it all 10- Insanity - Liz realizing the total craziness of the relationship but not having the strength to extricate herself " come back to me baby, don't you want to find insanity with me" "don't you love me anymore" 11 - The rapids song - the relationship is over and I'm in a rough patch right now but yours is coming too buddy just you wait 12 extraordinary - I am extraordinary if you ever get to know me (but you never did) 13- bionic eyes - hardened by experiences, this is an ode to a cynical female machismo that provides a shell against getting hurt again 14 - Love/Hate - the perfect album finisher. The final kiss off "and nothings gonna change" ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Supernova Discussion Board http://supernova.board.dk3.com/2/ - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:28:55 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "Chris DeLisle" To: Subject: re: it's just pop music Date: Sun, 6 Jul 2003 15:29:51 -0400 ah, Lisa, the sacrificial lamb... well, you've brought up a very good point/theme to everything that is Liz Phair (and the new album). do not take the following as a rant or an attack... the thing about music is that it's the soundtrack to our lives. those who have chosen to subscribe to this mailing list chose a long time ago that music was going to be very important to them and that it's an integral part of their character and identity. we chose long ago that the only 4 albums in our collection WEREN'T going to be "Steve Miller Band's Greatest Hits," "Jimmy Buffett's Greatest Hits," Bob Marley's "Legend" and Bad Company's "10 From 6." those are the albums that all those people in college played at parties to get drunk by and to find uninhibited members of the opposite sex by...we chose long ago that there was something sick and wrong about Kenny G... and Liz Phair shot her load, so to speak, back in 1993. what she can't ever go back to again is the state when she wasn't musically an Artist. i can sort of understand why so much anger came out when the latest record came out. where i think the anger really stems from is that she only releases an album every 4 or 5 years. if she were to release an album every year or two, i hardly think there would have been so much furor. the latest album would have just been the one "where she tried to sell more records." instead, it's a whole period or an era. but i think many jumped the gun and perhaps should have had more faith in Liz. the 5-song EP and other songs from these last 4 or 5 years have proven that she still has the goods, in spades. Liz Phair stands for so much in so many of our lives. every single person on this mailing list has a lot invested in her, especially those who have waited the last 5 years for this album. all those days when there was only one posting to the bulletin board...all those days when a mere mention of a sighting or a soundtrack (never released) or a photo shoot or a commercial was cause for celebration. we have all invested a portion of our day to L.P. there's individuals like Aaron Walker who, a long time ago, had THE web-site on the Internet for Phair afficionados. there's Ken Lee, who has had the MOTHER of all web-sites on Liz the last handful of years. there's Jason Long, who has kept this "6'1" / Support System" mailing list going for so many years. there's Craig King, and Catherine (from the Ivy League), and Andrea, and all the Katies, and Brett Jones, and Robert Joyner who had "The Slick Divide" web-site going (sorry if i'm getting the site wrong ~ personally, i visit Ken's site the most) and Meredith, and numerous others, and...even yours truly, a jackass who's bought six or seven copies of the last two records the first week they came out to send off to friends JUST so Liz could have more records sales...who's battled members of the Sound Opinions Message Board defending Liz like Aragorn defending Frodo from the Nazgul at Weathertop...ok, that's a bit much... ...but it's a nice segue to the fact that movies aren't just movies and books aren't just books and paintings aren't just paintings. art is a reflection to all of us. that may be sad, as so much crap proliferates through media channels these days and the bar isn't being raised anymore, but lowered (mostly). pop music, Lisa, as you've defined it, is really the kind of music that's here today and gone tomorrow, living forever frozen in a certain time period. in the amount of time between "wcse" and "LP," N'Sync has gone on to be a world-wide phenomenon and moved on to other things. i think the same was true of the New Kids On The Block. pop music is really "of its day" (i wish i knew a French term for that...du jour?). it's the kind of music that says "this came out in 1979" or "this came out in 1964" or whatever. certain artists, like Liz, transcend all that. so, no, i don't believe Liz can ever just be "pop music." and i don't really think the new album is, either. i think Liz is giving it one final shot. in the culture that we live in, images can sell quite a bit. she's still hotter than hell, so why not give it a go. my guess is that the next album ~ hopefully NOT to be released in 2007 or 2008, but sooner ~ will be more of a return to "form." i've got a vision in the future where Liz writes songs, records them, puts them in an area where we can respond to them for some great subscription price, and waits until she has the 14 or 15 choicest cuts, and then releases them on the public. wouldn't that be cool? but i digress. "it's only rock and roll" the Stones said in 1974, but it's odd that they released the song after all their best work was behind them. the last 30 years of the Stones' work does indeed REEK of that sentiment. but "Let It Bleed" meant a whole lot more and those who actually lived in 1970 (and were like us) would tell you. as i can't figure out a clever way to end this little essay of mine, let me conclude by saying that no, i don't think it's just pop music. chris deLisle p.s. -- i don't feel guilty about having "Insanity" on MP3 without paying because of the aforementioned lunacy of buying 7 copies of the "LP" record the first week. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:30:46 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "Mitch W." To: Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #176 Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 08:07:50 -0400 Okay - so where does one find these "unknown tracks?!" ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #178 ************************************