From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #177 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Sunday, July 6 2003 Volume 06 : Number 177 Today's Subjects: ----------------- guys, it's just pop music [bmad ] Re: guys, it's just pop music [Brett Jones ] did i miss something? ["Mike Katsoulis" ] potential song titles ["Headache79" ] for those of you that just can't get enough ["trent [hardcore since '74l]] Other songs that bring tears to my eyes [Mariam Hamou ] Re: guys, it's just pop music [Andrea Uptmor ] Re: guys, it's just pop music [TitleTK@aol.com] P2P says "catch me if you can" ["dana p." ] Re: guys, it's just pop music [robert joyner ] Re: P2P says "catch me if you can" [Matt Tilden ] Re: guys, it's just pop music [Catherine Molanphy ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 23:09:33 -0700 (PDT) From: bmad Subject: guys, it's just pop music Hey everyone, I think that with all the controversy on the list lately, everyone should step back for a moment, take a deep breath, and remember something very important: music does NOT MATTER. music is NOT a cure for cancer, it is NOT rocket science and it is NOT A WEAPON OF MASS DESTRUCTION. people are getting way too passionate about the discussion. please, it's pop music we're talking about here, not high art. it's meant to entertain us and keep our mind off of traffic in rush hour, nothing more, nothing less. everyone who thinks that liz phair's new album is "boring and derivative" need to get a life. i'm sure all you people who are saying she is just like april lavine probably even like to sing along to pink when you are in your car. what hypocrites you are. if you like pink enough to sing along to her in your car, why can't you accept Liz Phair being influenced by April Lavine? pink is a pop sensation and april lavine is a pop sensation, and they are very alike in the sense that they both sing on radio hits, so why shouldn't Liz Phair copy April if you like to sing along to pink? you are all just hypocrite snobs. i think that everyone should copy april's song, because it is very popular and i want my favorite musical performers to be able to eat. they are not in this for charity, after all, and art is not lucrative. if our favorite artists continue to persist at such a low profit endeavor they will be evicted from their apartments and become hobos, in which case they won't be able to put out compact discs. if that happens, we won't have anything to distract us from traffic at all. i think if all musical entertainers, starting with liz phair, copy april's song it will be very good for pop music because then everyone will make a lot of money and then they will be able to copy SK8RBOI next and put that on the radio too. I am glad Liz Phair chose COMPLICATED to copy first because I have already heard it many times, so I know that I enjoy it. Also, I enjoy songs with the "robot voice" in them, because this is now the year 2000 and it is time to start enjoying robots. in conclusion, i would like to say that i will buy liz phair's album whether it is good or it is bad, because it is just music, not brain surgery. Liz Phair deserves to be supported by listeners because, whether or not his music is good or bad, she is a great musician, and she is not in this for charity. and remember guys, before you waste your time disagreeing with me, music does not matter, which makes disagreement for deluded losers only. thank you, lisa SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Jun 2003 02:15:15 -0400 From: Brett Jones Subject: Re: guys, it's just pop music First off, put down the crack pipe and take two steps back. Secondly, who is this April girl you keep talking about? - -- Brett Jones brett@5foot2.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 03:22:35 -0500 From: "Mike Katsoulis" Subject: did i miss something? i think i missed the post where a link was given to download 3 demos from the new liz phair album... i thought they were supposed to be up at the same FTP site as the EP songs, but i can't find them there. Can someone please send me a link? Mike ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 04:37:43 -0400 (EDT) From: "Headache79" Subject: potential song titles hey all, just a few thoughts on potential song titles, based on the type of titles liz has used in the past. track 5: the liar song track 7: michael row the boat ashore or white-water rafter paul "As I got older I had to step out of the lines. And make up my own mind. As I got light as a feather they got stiff as a board. I can't feel any more, but I can fake it forever." Liz Phair, "Bionic Eyes" The most personalized portal on the Web! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:02:11 -0400 From: "trent [hardcore since '74l]" Subject: for those of you that just can't get enough Here you will find a whole slew of reviews of LP: http://www.metacritic.com/music/artists/phairliz/lizphair/ - --- "frankly it's ludicrous to have these interlocking bodies and not interlock please remove your clothing now." anya -- buffy the vampire slayer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 12:08:59 -0400 From: Mariam Hamou Subject: Other songs that bring tears to my eyes It's really interesting to read what other people's personal experiences are with songs. I never thought a song like Little Digger would bring tears to someone's eyes but I guess I don't have kids. I too think it's a great song (very personal) but that's what's amazing about Liz - she really personalizes the songs! I guess there are a few songs that got me weepy eyed, one was divorce song - I had to listen to it a good 12-15 times before I stopped crying. Not because I've gone through a divorce or anything, but it's just so damn sad and anyone who's gone through an intense relationship would understand. Another one is Perfect World - it's hard to love someone so much when you know it can't work out because of something out of your control. Beginning to see the light is also like that. I found that the songs are really therapeutic and cause a sense of catharsis while listening to them if you're going through a tough breakup. I'm really interested in what songs make people cry and why? I could probably go on about this but I wanna throw this question out to the list to see what people's reactions are. Mariam Hamou Sometimes a dream is what makes you a slave. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 13:31:40 -0500 From: Andrea Uptmor Subject: Re: guys, it's just pop music > and remember guys, before you waste your time disagreeing with me, music does > not matter, which makes disagreement for deluded losers only. > If music does not matter to you, then you have never really listened to music. andrea U. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:46:23 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: guys, it's just pop music In a message dated 7/5/03 2:32:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, auptmo@artic.edu writes: << If music does not matter to you, then you have never really listened to music. >> Bravo Andrea! Lisa, Everyone continues to say that if you don't like the new album than don't listen to it. Well, if you don't like people talking about it, than don't read the emails. Music does matter, it changes lives, it makes people think, it brings people together. And if you don't think so, you know nothing about music. How dare you say that people don't have lives because they care about something? Especially something that you obviously care enough about to write an angry message in retort. Liz Phair makes up about 1% of everything in my life . . . but was an influence in my life and others on this list. If you don't agree with people's opinions, than back up your argument with why you like the damn album. You know nothing about anyone on this list and it is extremely pretentious of you to think otherwise. james ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:17:16 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: P2P says "catch me if you can" [Jase said: To me, that's bogus ... and yet another reason why the record companies never get it right. If Capitol were smart, they'd still offer the track on iTunes, but they'd also put out a CD single for "Why Can't I?" with "Insanity" as a b-side. That way, pretty much anyone who wants to hear the song -- and pay for it - -- would have the ability to do so. Seriously, they stand to make a much bigger profit off of a single, which is a lot more easily accessible, than they will just offering it up on iTunes alone. Hell, even when iTunes is available for Windows, that still doesn't help those people who don't own a computer at all....I feel bad that I can't toss a dollar Liz's way for the track, but I don't feel bad about any money Capitol won't be seeing because people are downloading it for free. If they wanted our cash bad enough, they'd make it easier for us to spend it on their product.] EXACTLY. i'm wondering if you've checked out that RIAA thread i talked about on Velvet Rope, because that's exactly what everyone there is arguing about. also, there's another thread on there called "what would YOU do?" and it's about providing suggestions for how the labels/music industry can keep afloat. i thought there were some excellent suggestions on there, including "bring back the single," "completely revamp artist/label contracts," and "outlaw payola." like you, my beef with the music industry is their need to *relentlessly control access* and how they constanly bungle their attempts to do so. many people on those threads are citing the fact that labels screw talent over royally and then move on to their next victim, all in the name of profit, and so it's a huge joke they're using the RIAA to clamp down on "lost revenue" resulting from the use of napster/P2P et al. and i agree with this. and, as jase points out, why bitch about lost revenue if you can't harness the technology to provide that all-important access? this makes no sense. how long have they had to get their act together on that one?? maybe they need to wise up like alot of multibillion-dollar companies who hire the people who hacked into their systems to then do their IT security; like the FBI hired frank abignale for their check fraud unit: *hire these P2P kids to set up your systems, boneheads!!! DUH!!* that said, i'd like to point out that many on the liz thread are hoping that *andy sayler* is the one who gets a big kick in the head for the way capitol is marketing her. you can't argue that much of the blame rests on his shoulders. he's the last word, after all. she can run around in all the trampy clothes she wants, that's her decision, but it's ultimately *his* decision as to how she's gonna appear in their promo materials and how she's gonna "sound." so, i hope he gets his ass kicked. i have no idea whom he answers to and i have no idea when the day of reckoning is scheduled.... so, we'll see. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 14:39:46 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: Re: guys, it's just pop music - --- bmad wrote: > > and remember guys, before you waste your time > disagreeing with me, music does not matter, which > makes disagreement for deluded losers only. > > thank you, > lisa > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! c'mon bennett, that post is like so last month! in that it was much funnier when you posted much the same mocking sentiment last month. i don't like the new album very much either but i believe in kindness to animals, so i won't bother beating a dead horse. this new stuff that is leaking out to me is a much more constructive use of my time. "Insanity" knocks my socks with that old school Carly Simon-ish right off the tip of the tongue smart lyricism. This song totally walks in to the party like it was walking onto a yacht, winning back of this disaffected Liz phan. "Capsized in the Whitewater/The Rapids Song" - has a bouncy charm and a funny metaphor that has me wanting to hear the second half of this abbreviated song. "Jeremy Engle" is Liz at her esoteric best. Reading the lyrics you wonder anyone could make a song out of that acid inspired vision, but Liz pulls it off with easy aplomb. Sure the L Phizzy, er, Liz Phair LP maybe be a mixed bag but this Elizabeth Clark Phair LP that I'm amassing from these tossed off tracks is shaping up to be quite something. later Robert ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Supernova Discussion Board http://supernova.board.dk3.com/2/ - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Jul 2003 16:08:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Tilden Subject: Re: P2P says "catch me if you can" Personally I have no problem with the system as it is today. The artists I want to give my money to are getting itas opposed to before when I wouldn't buy any CD's unless they were by established acts and I'd heard 4 or 5 tracks from it. I'm completely against the RIAA's arguments because despite the validity of their claims it all boils down to, "oh wait, these people aren't letting us screw them anymore" As far as artists getting paid is concerned, to me they've got to earn it. If they make good music, I'll buy it if not I'm gonna delete the mp3's anyway. - --- "dana p." wrote: > [Jase said: To me, that's bogus ... and yet another > reason why the record > companies never get it right. If Capitol were smart, > they'd still offer > the track on iTunes, but they'd also put out a CD > single for "Why Can't > I?" with "Insanity" as a b-side. That way, pretty > much anyone who wants > to hear the song -- and pay for it - -- would have > the ability to do so. > Seriously, they stand to make a much bigger profit > off of a single, which > is a lot more easily accessible, than they will just > offering it up on > iTunes alone. Hell, even when iTunes is available > for Windows, that still > doesn't help those people who don't own a computer > at all....I feel bad > that I can't toss a dollar Liz's way for the track, > but I don't feel bad > about any money Capitol won't be seeing because > people are downloading it > for free. If they wanted our cash bad enough, they'd > make it easier for > us to spend it on their product.] EXACTLY. i'm > wondering if you've > checked out that RIAA thread i talked about on > Velvet Rope, because > that's exactly what everyone there is arguing about. > also, there's > another thread on there called "what would YOU do?" > and it's about > providing suggestions for how the labels/music > industry can keep afloat. > i thought there were some excellent suggestions on > there, including > "bring back the single," "completely revamp > artist/label contracts," and > "outlaw payola." like you, my beef with the music > industry is their need > to *relentlessly control access* and how they > constanly bungle their > attempts to do so. many people on those threads are > citing the fact that > labels screw talent over royally and then move on to > their next victim, > all in the name of profit, and so it's a huge joke > they're using the RIAA > to clamp down on "lost revenue" resulting from the > use of napster/P2P et > al. and i agree with this. and, as jase points out, > why bitch about lost > revenue if you can't harness the technology to > provide that all-important > access? this makes no sense. how long have they had > to get their act > together on that one?? maybe they need to wise up > like alot of > multibillion-dollar companies who hire the people > who hacked into their > systems to then do their IT security; like the FBI > hired frank abignale > for their check fraud unit: *hire these P2P kids to > set up your systems, > boneheads!!! DUH!!* that said, i'd like to point > out that many on the > liz thread are hoping that *andy sayler* is the one > who gets a big kick > in the head for the way capitol is marketing her. > you can't argue that > much of the blame rests on his shoulders. he's the > last word, after all. > she can run around in all the trampy clothes she > wants, that's her > decision, but it's ultimately *his* decision as to > how she's gonna appear > in their promo materials and how she's gonna > "sound." so, i hope he > gets his ass kicked. i have no idea whom he answers > to and i have no idea > when the day of reckoning is scheduled.... so, > we'll see. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:43:39 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: Re: guys, it's just pop music > First off, put down the crack pipe and take two steps back. Secondly, > who is this April girl you keep talking about? > -- > Brett Jones > brett@5foot2.com LOL! "Guys, it's just pop music so it doesn't matter, that's why I'm typing three screens' worth about it, and i'm subscribed to a discussion list about it. Don't write back!" - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 00:54:04 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: Re: Other songs that bring tears to my eyes > I'm really interested in what songs make people cry and why? I could > probably go on about this but I wanna throw this question out to the > list to see what people's reactions are. > > Mariam Hamou I've never enjoyed Liz on the "tears" level... her very literal songs like "Little Digger" & "Go On Ahead" don't do much for me. That's not to say her music can't be emotionally cathartic... when Liz gets crazy angry in "Jealousy", I get angry right along with her. I guess not much music makes me cry... the only song I can think of (non-Liz) that gets me *close* to choking up is "Little Tin Soldier" by Donovan. When the tin soldier and the ballerina jump into the fire together it really gets me. *crosses fingers and desperately hopes that SOMEONE will have heard this song* - --Catherine p.s. not on topic: current favorite Liz lyric is "Without you I'm just another Dorian Gray..." Okay, yeah, I'm a sucker for booky references... but it also goes with the meter of the tune REALLY well. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Jul 2003 01:02:48 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: "Friend Of Mine" Anyone else grooving on this song? Almost has a Whip Smart feel to it... it's a song you could easily overlook because the lyrics are nothing special, but I like the sound with the lazy, grinding tempo, and also the guitar solo, which is rare for me to appreciate. It's one of the few times where I think the slick production was done really well... really complements the song. - --Catherine ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #177 ************************************