From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #176 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, July 5 2003 Volume 06 : Number 176 Today's Subjects: ----------------- new album [Dan MacDonald ] review from The Onion (AV Club) [Emil Breton ] Liz at IGN.com [John-Paul Finger ] Morning Becomes Eclectic video [Emil Breton ] EP TROUBLES [SHERLY McLACHLAN ] whoa now.... ["dana p." ] Re: "Insanity" mp3 and ogg (and ethics) [Jase ] liz tour ? ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] Re: liz tour ? [robert joyner ] my favorite liz review ["sandra" ] who cares??? ["Luke Malone" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:44:15 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: new album i downloaded those unknown tracks - they totally rock. especially that "rapids" song. wow. with the EP songs, "down", "insanity" and now these two unknown songs (too bad the one is incomplete) - if we happen to get our hands on those three coveted julie johnson songs - that's 12 strong, great songs. and the album we've all *really* been waiting for. it's like, the true-grit fans go out and dig these songs up to get the goods. maybe "little digger" was a subliminal hint. maybe she calls her fans "diggers" and was telling us to search for the new songs. just kidding. seriously i'm kidding. anyway, i've been hearing Why Can't I? so much on the radio - it's starting to grow on me. go figure. i think the "best part of breaking up is finding someone else you can't get enough of/ someone who wants to be with you too.." line is soooooo cool. just colour me "avril"! totally for sure!! but i'm totally geeked about these unknown songs. so far - they sound fantastic. i can't wait for more to start surfacing. . is anyone placing any bets on when her next official album will be released? i remember, just after WCSE came out, someone took a guess that new material would be released Xmas 2003 - and at the time i thought that was ridiculous - but they weren't far off. i'm guessing....late 2004, or very early 2005. I just think - if she does get some momentum from this album and the new marketing/sound - they'll want to pump another album out of her soon. hopefully she keeps leaking these awesome songs along the way... dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:03:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: review from The Onion (AV Club) Liz Phair Liz Phair (Capitol) "You don't even know who Liz Phair is," Liz Phair sings to a younger lover on "Rock Me," one of the more palatable songs on her long-awaited, self-titled fourth album. But who can blame him? Even Phair doesn't seem to know who she is anymore. An artistic identity crisis in CD form, the disc has a little bit of confessional singer-songwriter material, a little bit of more calculated pop, and a lot of stuff so fussed-over that it sounds less like music than like demographically tested sonic sculpting. Phair never got enough credit for Whip-Smart and Whitechocolatespaceegg, solid albums that injected color into the grainy black-and-white imagery of her landmark debut Exile In Guyville. On Liz Phair, she seems to cop the attitude that since everyone always accuses her of selling out, she might as well go all the way with it. That includes roping in The Matrix, the production team behind Avril Lavigne's recent hits, which Phair has made no bones about attempting to emulate. But since Lavigne wants to sound like early Alanis Morissette, and Morissette started out trying to do a slicked-up impression of Liz Phair, isn't that a bit like Bruce Springsteen hiring away Jack Johnson's collaborators? That doesn't stop The Matrix from going all-out to push the album's first single, "Why Can't I?," over the top, but it's an embarrassingly awkward marriage of dumbed-down Phair songwriting and every tired production trick of the last year. (Some voices just weren't made for distorted echo effects.) The album mostly fails to improve on that low standard. It's hard to sound condescending singing to a child, but Phair pulls it off with "Little Digger." The lover-as-underwear metaphor of "Favorite" wouldn't work even with a better tune, and the semen-as-skin-conditioner ode "H.W.C." seems thrown in out of some vestigial desire to shock. Worst of all, the album closes with three decent songs, reminders of Phair's talent that are muted by what's come before. Maybe there wasn't time for that Clay Aiken duet. Keith Phipps __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 10:18:20 -0500 From: John-Paul Finger Subject: Liz at IGN.com Theres a nice Liz interview up at IGN.com. This is one of my favorite video game related websites that I frequent, so I was pretty amazed to see Lizon there, but its got some great stuff: http://music.ign.com/articles/427/427278p1.html Gems include: Liz Phair: I think you purists have got to chill out a little bitty bit. Liz Phair: No. You're not listening. Listen, listen, listen. Enjoy, John-Paul Austin, TX NP: The "Unknown three" - WOW ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:21:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Morning Becomes Eclectic video Go to www.kcrw.org/music and scroll down to "Morning Becomes Eclectic". I'm viewing it right now (too cool!) through an up-to-date Real One Player. Thanks to Erin (?) for the tip-off! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 09:23:44 -0700 (PDT) From: SHERLY McLACHLAN Subject: EP TROUBLES Hey Everyone, I know I'm alittle late to the party but my system was down so this was the first chance I had to try and get the ep. Has anyone complained to Capital becauses they are still having the same problems. I get about half way thru the download and then it errors out. I'm hoping someone will have a heart and host the downloads again so I can get a hold of them without the headaches. Would be much appreciated. Also Chicago fans WXRT is having a contest. You can win to tickets to a private show with Liz at the House of Blues the 9th of this month. Have a great 4th!!! Thanks Lor SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 10:08:58 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: whoa now.... well, i for one, am not angry at her "for going pop." she's always written pop songs. there were several radio-friendly songs on EIG, even. the problem is they didn't get on the radio. why? because she wasn't "playing the game." she was an outsider--and way too intimidating for the wanna-be scenesters who run the music business. so now it's this whole marketing thing (*and* working with the hottest production team in the biz right now) that's landing her on the map--with clear channel, which really is all you need. at this point, my hope is that after all this she can go back to doing what she always did (writing intriguing pop songs) and sneak in her old self once she's more "established." if that's indeed what she's doing, i get it. that's fine with me. but, i have to say, when i heard those matrix songs, i was shocked at how stoopid they are. shocked. the melodies are catchy, but.... oy. good pop is great. i have no problem with pop. it's fun, cheeky, and oftentimes brilliant, especially the ones where you finally figure out what the person really means. but they're not easy to write, either. her big problem right now is her entire previous career: people know what she's capable of in terms of writing and playing. she's no pop dud on her own. she's got it all over these clowns. so, this all seems pretty bizarre, like, we're all supposed to pretend she's just come out of nowhere. plus, if she's so interested in having a CAREER, why hasn't she spent more time dealing with girlysounds and her entire backcatalog and getting that out? you know, dealing with *the music*. it seems to me that if she's feels she's not good at managing that stuff, she'd hire someone to do that instead of worrying about scoring bit parts in movies and driving too fast in her beemer. she sucks at relating to her audience at the back end of the creative process. so everything she does smells of netting lucre, not "nurturing her career"--and then she gets pissed off when people call her on it. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:55:25 -0400 From: Jase Subject: Re: "Insanity" mp3 and ogg (and ethics) At 01:22 PM 7/03/03 -0500, you wrote: Aaron Walker wrote: >The Insanity single is (I imagine) primarily being downloaded by people who >did not buy the rights to hear it. Currently only Macintosh users can buy >that song so there are people prevented from purchasing it for technical >reasons. The iTunes Music Store for windows is due by the end of the year, >but that's a really long time to wait for something like this. > >I'd like to imagine that everyone who downloads that track will buy it as >soon as the iTunes Music Store is available for windows, but on some level I >fear they won't. In my mind, that hurts Liz. Anyone who's been on the list for a while knows how strongly I feel about artists' rights and that they receive due compensation for their work. At the same time, though, there's something about "exclusives" like this that just doesn't sit right with me. I think iTunes provides a great service; there are a lot of artists that I only like two or three songs by and I think it's great that they provide the ability to purchase individual tracks, while the artist still receives compensation. I think it may increase revenue for a lot of musicians -- people who are not inclined to buy a full-length album from a particular artist now have the option to buy just the songs they want. Hey, the sale of a single song is better than no sale at all. However, most of the music available on iTunes is also available through other channels; exclusives like "Insanity" are not, and that's where my problem lies. I can understand why both Liz and Capitol accepted whatever iTunes' offer was when they were approached; it gives them both a way to generate some additional revenue from a song that was already written, recorded and sitting in the vaults. Any profits that are realized will help recoup the album's recording budget that much sooner. I just wish that they wouldn't have made it an exclusive to iTunes and would have found additional ways to get the song out to those who want to hear it. Currently, to purchase from iTunes, you need to be a Mac user, have a credit card, and be a U.S. resident. That pretty much leaves out the majority of computer users, anyone under legal age (or with bad credit), and any fans who live in Canada, the UK, Australia, Japan, etc. Slightly exaggerated, but hey, what does that leave, about 40 Liz fans who can buy the damn thing? I, myself, have the credit card, but don't meet any of the other criteria. I want to buy the song, but they're not giving me the means to do so. To me, that's bogus ... and yet another reason why the record companies never get it right. If Capitol were smart, they'd still offer the track on iTunes, but they'd also put out a CD single for "Why Can't I?" with "Insanity" as a b-side. That way, pretty much anyone who wants to hear the song -- and pay for it - -- would have the ability to do so. Seriously, they stand to make a much bigger profit off of a single, which is a lot more easily accessible, than they will just offering it up on iTunes alone. Hell, even when iTunes is available for Windows, that still doesn't help those people who don't own a computer at all. You know, I wouldn't even care if the single was an import; I'd still buy it. Any decent record store would be able to order it in, and those who want to order in from online retailers could do that as well. I just don't have much sympathy in a case like this; if you're going to put out a song but not let the majority of the artist's fans have access to it, you'd be dumb not to think they're going to find an alternate means of getting ahold of it. I feel bad that I can't toss a dollar Liz's way for the track, but I don't feel bad about any money Capitol won't be seeing because people are downloading it for free. If they wanted our cash bad enough, they'd make it easier for us to spend it on their product. And you know, Capitol really needs to not alienate Liz's fanbase right now. I know a lot of old fans have already jumped ship because they don't like the new sound and how Liz is being promoted. I've seen a lot of people attack Liz on various message boards the past few weeks about the album and some of her perceived "anti-indie" comments in recent interviews. It's yet to be seen if the album will find her a wider audience or not, and a lot of people are hoping the record will fail (check out the Velvet Rope to see one of the more vicious examples of what I mean -- people are gloating over the fact the album's debut was lower than expected). If Capitol and Liz want to release more of the outtakes and make some money off them, there are some ideas I think they should consider: - - release the songs as b-sides on commercially available CD singles. They'd make a killing off all the diehards like us. - - take an example from what Ben Folds is doing and release a series of two or three EPs. Still offer them up through iTunes, but also sell CD copies at shows and through the official site (and have it so that people can pay by credit card or send in a cheque or money order). - - follow the R.E.M. model: they send out an exclusive single to all of their fan club members every Christmas. Sure, it's something you have to pay to join, but the same fans who would be interested in demos and outtakes in the first place are the same kind who subscribe to things like this. - - go forward with Liz's idea for an online subscription service. Have the tracks in MP3 format so that they will work on all platforms. Don't set it up like iTunes and have it available for U.S. residents only; set it up the way Kristin Hersh's "Works in Progress" service is and make it available to everyone. And, again, find a way to set it up so that those who don't have credit cards can make the payment through alternate means. The fans *will* buy, provided you give them the opportunity. I'm sure no one on this list wants to willfully steal Liz's music; heck, I imagine most of us go out and buy pretty much anything with Liz's name on it or her involvement. But also, as fans, we want to hear every song that's released in any form -- and if you don't give us the means to, we're going to find alternate ways of doing so. I feel kind of bad, because my reply to Aaron's thoughts turned out to be more of a rant, which is definitely not directed at him ... just my frustration with why the music industry just doesn't get it. Throwing in my two cents (since I just saved $0.99), Jase ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Jul 2003 13:50:34 -0400 From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: liz tour ? Hey all...After finally getting my signed copy (thank you aware records) i must say that the new album is not as bad as i thought it would be. I will review it later after it has had time to sink in. from the list a few days ago: >Jason Mraz will support at all shows except the Aug. 21-22 finales in Chicago Does this mean that the tour wraps up in late august and if you dont see her by aug 23 your S.O.L? or is there going to be a fall or winter leg of the tour? Sheese, i move to asheville from florida and now she says she is going to tour florida? ANyone have info on more tour dates past August? On another note...saw Sheryl Crow this past sunday at the amphiteatre in Cary, NC. Awesome show as we were dead center and second row! Go see her if you can....very loose and laid back but she rocked! Peter Stroud is a great guitarist. DarkSide oftheMoon _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 11:25:46 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: Re: liz tour ? - --- DarkSide oftheMoon wrote: > Does this mean that the tour wraps up in late august > and if you dont see her > by aug 23 your S.O.L? > or is there going to be a fall or winter leg of the > tour? > to tour florida? ANyone > have info on more tour dates past August? Liz said during the KCRW interview that: ......touring europe in late september / early october......touring all year, all the way through next summer........ surprised to see she is touring europe. Brad Wood e-mailed me one time about the gigography i used to do and had this to say about her experiences in europe: Brad Wood: "You missed one show, a dismal affair in Manchester @ the local university, where Liz & band played a poorly attended show in the cafeteria with Oasis opening up for us. Oasis had just been signed to Creation Recs. & were loutish, drunken idiots. We shared a dressing room w/them (a classroom) & Liam was especially drunk & antagonistic- resulting in a near-riot between us & Oasis' buddies. A rough night of being spit at, having beer thrown on us & general vocal abuse from Manchester's finest kind of made us wish to be home quickly. The next night we opened for Pumpkins @ Brixton Academy, where the spit flew again! Toss in a savage interview with the pinheaded Everett True (of NME) & it's no wonder Liz hasn't returned to the UK since 1993. " Doing club shows in Britain, the crowds are notorious for spitting on and disrespecting bands. (I think this is a show that myself and Craig King would have given our left arm to see, being big fans of both) Pure conjecture on my part here, but i see her doing something along the lines of the Alanis tour at some point ie opening several shows for some bigger name artists (sorry flaming lips fans). ps...we have to have a contest to name these 2 (or is it 3) new songs. as with most liz songs, no way is it as simple as the title being the main lyrical refrain. any ideas? oh and, Mr Bucci many thanks for the sharing of the liz-ness. you are heading to the top of my list of favorite List folk. later robert ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Supernova Discussion Board http://supernova.board.dk3.com/2/ - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:07:14 -0500 From: "sandra" Subject: my favorite liz review I don't remember seeing this yet; sorry if it's a repeat. sandra LIZ PHAIR Liz Phair (Capitol Records) Dear Haters, You know who you are. You write for The New York Times. You write for websites. You write your deepest thoughts and dreams in zines. You, indelicate Haters, kill Liz Phair with your words. Why? Because Liz reminds you that it's not 1993 anymore. You're working full-time, maybe for (gasp!) a Corporate Entity. You can't complain about all the guys you're sleeping with, because the only guy you're sleeping with is your husband. You can't close down the club, because you've got a brat on your breast. You discount Liz's new record, Liz Phair, because it's not her debut, Exile in Guyville. Liz has changed. If you let her get away with it, that'll mean you've changed too. You say her new record is a sellout because it includes songs produced by starmakers the Matrix. Point not taken. This record ranges widely. Some songs are what marketing types might call "sticky." When played on the radio, they inspire singalongs. You say this is a bad thing. I see you bopping down the street with your iPod set to Pink's "Get the Party Started," and I call you a hypocrite. To thine own self be true, Haters. You say this record isn't clever. This argument is baseless. I challenge anyone not to find the humor in the song "Rock Me": a thirtysomething Liz, chasing post-collegiate tail, is hit with the realization that "his record collection don't exist/ He doesn't even know who Liz Phair is." That shit is funny, and you know it. You claim this record has no depth. Claim denied! "Little Digger" is a heart-squeezing song about the effects of divorce on wee ones. When Liz sings, "I've done the damage/ The damage is done/ I pray to God that I'm the damaged one," you are simply not human if you fail to respond. Haters, in summary, you wish you were still wearing vintage dresses, working as a barista and blowing different guys every weekend. You're not, and you're taking it out on Liz Phair. Free Liz! (Caryn B. Brooks) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Jul 2003 05:05:57 +0000 From: "Luke Malone" Subject: who cares??? hey all, keith phipps is an over indulgent idiot. some of you guys are just being silly. who cares if shes wants to 'sell-out' if you were writing songs and producing music for x amount of years, wouldnt you want a little more recognition. i admit that i am a huge fan and have grown up with her music and i am a little reluctant to 'share' her with the world. but isn't this a little selfish of me? i think that everyone should chill, she is an individual who will make her own choices, if you dont like what you hear, just switch it off. seriously. i say good on her for taking a jump that is probably hard for her to do. i will still buy her records out of loyalty even if they are crap. people are gettin' a 'lil too obsessed with this issue, let her live her life. just had to get that off my chest. cheers everyone, luke malone. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail is now available on Australian mobile phones. 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