From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #174 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, July 3 2003 Volume 06 : Number 174 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Wow [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: Hurricane! [ReallyHip@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V6 #173 [bmad ] what's on the heel [Catherine Molanphy ] Bounced message [owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ] Re: what's on the heel [TitleTK@aol.com] Bounced message [Jase ] Las Vegas Show ["Jon Box" ] Re: why aren't you guys going nuts over "jeremy engle?" [Emil Breton ] "Insanity" mp3 and ogg ["Michael Honaker" ] Re: Unknown Liz Songs (4th Album Roughs) [Catherine Molanphy ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 01:15:26 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Wow http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0327/phair.php Three must read reviews. Take that, NY Times. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:22:06 -0400 From: ReallyHip@aol.com Subject: Re: Hurricane! I pay for songs because I want to give the artist my money, to encourage their art. I do not pay for, let's say... the new Pink song. :) Don't knock people's reasons for paying for music. - -Michael "real good time" - Pink, 'Feel Good Time'. :) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:29:45 -0700 (PDT) From: bmad Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #173 i was sad she dropped the "saturday saturday... what's on the heel" round. i don't know which version that originally came from but i always thought it was the prettiest part of the song. bennett _________________________________ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:13:14 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: Hurricane! Wowowowow... I just DLed "HurricaneCindy" from the :cough:free:cough: FTP site and I'm digesting it. This has been in my top five Liz songs for several years now, and I've enjoyed all its incarnations. Some initial impressions: Pros: She kept the "what's that piece of ass I see" intro that I grew to love in the WCSEsessions version of this song. The production is a *little* too slick for my tastes, but not overly so. It's nice. (In contrast, I did NOT like the strings added to "Perfect World" on WCSE) Cons: She eliminated the "put it on the stereo and play... all my life I've wanted them to say..." bridge which was in both the ShelvedDemos and WCSEsessions versions... I think this is unfortunate. It added a whole 'nother level of interpretation to the song. It expanded the theme to include memory, a longtime childhood dream of being famous, being known, instead of just focusing on the post-pubescent desire for male attention... which is also part of the song's theme, IMO, but not its entirety. All in all, I'm just glad this pet song of mine is finally getting a hearing. Yay! - - --Catherine SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 01:46:45 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: what's on the heel > From: bmad > i was sad she dropped the "saturday saturday... what's on the heel" round. i > don't know which version that originally came from but i always thought it was > the prettiest part of the song. > > bennett Yes! That, too. Yeah, I think she eliminated that lyric from the WCSEsessions version, too. But I agree... it was special. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 02:06:16 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: what's on the heel > From: bmad > i was sad she dropped the "saturday saturday... what's on the heel" round. i > don't know which version that originally came from but i always thought it was > the prettiest part of the song. > > bennett Yes! That, too. Yeah, I think she eliminated that lyric from the WCSEsessions version, too. But I agree... it was special. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 02:45:52 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "sandra" To: Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #173 Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 00:31:36 -0500 i gotta say, i'm amazed at the soup-to-nuts impressions of little digger. your taste is your taste, and i totally dig that (har). but i'm still baffled at how we can be so different. catherine, for example, wrote that she can't get into "go on ahead" or "little digger" because "while they're both intensely personal, they're just too literal > and unsubtle for me to groove on. They read to me more like a journal entry > than a work of art. I *should* find them poignant and touching, but I don't. How are these songs more of a journal entry than, say, Chopsticks? I'm just musing here. Granted, I didn't "get" Go On Ahead till recently either -- now I think it's an incredibly sad, revealing, and touching song. And yes, I became a mom last year. I fully accept that has something to do with it. I hate to be all "you'd see it differently if you had kids" but ... you'd see it differently if you had kids. I am a stereotype. and then someone ... oh jeez, EMIL, said: "Little Digger" actually > is in my Top 3 from the new record (if I use my > imagination -- ha, ha), but the "trucks on the bed" > thing is *weak*. Arf. Dude, that is one of if not THE strongest image on the entire fucking album to me. I daresay it's the only time a Liz song has made me cry. Different strokes. sandra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 06:09:20 -0400 From: "Falk, Brian" Subject: why aren't you guys going nuts over "jeremy engle?" it seems like there should be more commotion over this one...i love how it is arranged...it just keeps gathering momentum and is by far the most satisfying of the new songs...to me. it's like...that's the song we deserved for sitting here going on and on about nothing but sitcom jingles and calvin klein ads for the last 5 years...that and about a dozen more like it....shit. [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 06:09:20 -0400 From: "Falk, Brian" Subject: why aren't you guys going nuts over "jeremy engle?" it seems like there should be more commotion over this one...i love how it is arranged...it just keeps gathering momentum and is by far the most satisfying of the new songs...to me. it's like...that's the song we deserved for sitting here going on and on about nothing but sitcom jingles and calvin klein ads for the last 5 years...that and about a dozen more like it....shit. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:39:22 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: FW: Liz EP for Macs I thought y'all might get a kick out of this... esp. the last paragraph. Hee! - --Catherine - ---------- From: Christopher Molanphy HeyHeyHey... Thanx for all the info. I tried the Mac tips on Charles Miller's page, and I got closer (setting IE as my default browser was key -- apparently that's how WIMP authorizes each friggin' track). But still, no dice: WIMP looks like it's playing the song, but I hear nothing -- no stream, no moving tracker arrow, nothing. So what did I do? Download the MP3s, of course! I've got 'em. I can burn 'em to CD for ya. Shall I? Let me know. Oh BOY am I gonna let the EMI rep have it when I talk to him/her later today. Sheez, what's the point of all this? That would include lots of money, BROTHER CHRIS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 08:37:55 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: what's on the heel In a message dated 7/2/03 1:41:54 AM Eastern Daylight Time, catherinemolanphy@earthlink.net writes: << WCSEsessions version, too. >> No, it's in there. james ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 12:32:39 -0400 From: Jase Subject: Bounced message Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 08:16:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [Little Digger] From: Catherine Molanphy To: "by way of Jase " Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.1.20030702024454.00a51a60@mail.cogeco.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > From: "sandra" > > i gotta say, i'm amazed at the soup-to-nuts impressions of little digger. > your taste is your taste, and i totally dig that (har). but i'm still > baffled at how we can be so different. catherine, for example, wrote that > she can't get into "go on ahead" or "little digger" because >> "while they're both intensely personal, they're just too literal and unsubtle >> for me to groove on. They read to me more like a journal entry than a work of >> art. I *should* find them poignant and touching, but I don't. > > How are these songs more of a journal entry than, say, Chopsticks? Interesting comparison and, incidentally, "Chopsticks" is one of my least favorite of her songs. That being said, I still would put "Chopsticks" in a slightly different category, because lyrically I think that song is more of a snapshot or a cinematic impression than "Digger" or "Go On Ahead" are. Maybe "journal entry" was a poor analogy... I was trying to get at something else... I think the lyrics to those two songs are more like prose than poetry... there's very little metaphor in either. > and then someone ... oh jeez, EMIL, said: >> "Little Digger" actually is in my Top 3 from the new record (if I use my >> imagination -- ha, ha), but the "trucks on the bed" thing is *weak*. Arf. > > Dude, that is one of if not THE strongest image on the entire fucking album > to me. I daresay it's the only time a Liz song has made me cry. Different > strokes. As you say, different strokes. And also, as you say, it's baffling how we can all be so different. But there you are. - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 14:21:37 -0400 From: "Jon Box" Subject: Las Vegas Show Anyone know whether the Las Vegas show is still on? Her webiste has taken the date off the tour listing, but House of Blues still has the show. According to the HOB website, she will be playing with Patrick Park, does anyone know of this guy? Thanks ____________________________________________________________ Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! http://login.mail.lycos.com/r/referral?aid=27005 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 11:33:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Re: why aren't you guys going nuts over "jeremy engle?" Brian Falk: > it seems like there should be more commotion over > this one...i love how it is arranged...it just keeps > gathering momentum and is by far the most satisfying > of the new songs...to me. dude, I've been *trying* to start a commotion! It's also my favorite, and if I think back over the years, remembering which "new" Liz songs seemed on par with "old", I'd say this one is up there with "Blood Keeper" and "Don't have Time". I like it better than anything on all of wcse. I'm *nuts* for it. Here's why: 1) It's completely imagined, despite its This-is-how-it-happened literalness (thank you, MSN chat) 2) it's so un-commercial, there isn't anything resembling a chorus, or even a *refrain* -- there isn't even a line that gets repeated *once* 3) The way the lead vocal mines the depths of her range, as in days of yore (the low notes have always been good to her, you know) 4) The harmony vocal (if you want to know what my idea of tasteful harmony is) 5) the image conjured by the lines "Jeremy needs me / to wipe from his eye / some gelatinous thingie / that his brother's rebuttaling mouthful let fly" -- hysterical! 6) her use of words that don't yet officially exist ('rebuttaling', 'thingie', 'googly') 7) the notion of a communist family living in a rent-controlled apartment in Manhattan 8) the double-guitar effect that appears briefly, on the second verse 9) the synth noise that shimmers -- and then promptly fades -- behind the phrase "his googly eyes" 10) the fact that her guitar is loud & clear from start to finish! So, yeah, I'm nuts. What else is new. - -emil __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:07:00 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: FW: Liz first-week sales Got this from my brother today... - --Catherine - ---------- So here's the latest from Billboard on the first-week sales: http://www.billboard.com/bb/daily/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1926761 Despite a hit on the Adult Top 40 Tracks chart and a glossy new power-pop sound, the self-titled new album from singer Liz Phair falls short of the first-week sales total of 1998's "whitechocolatespaceegg" (Capitol). The latter sold 39,000 when it debuted, and the new release tops off at 35,000 units, landing at No. 27. I think they're being a little harsh -- sales for CDs are down across the board from five years ago (#1 albums used to average around 400,000 copies; now they're averaging about 200,000). So selling only 4,000 less than a 1998 album is really not bad. Then again, they're sort of right -- after a huge promotional blitz (Jay Leno, etc.) and increased airplay, the new one really should be outselling the last one, at least by a little. I finally got my Mac to play the WIMP files -- play, not download. I still get an error when I try to download the songs. The EMI PR rep was kinda confused (I still haven't talked to their tech guy); she says on her PC it was a cinch, and she's not even a PC whiz, etc. She also says the DRM on this EP is the same copy protection they use on all Windows-based music -- i.e., anything you load from Rhapsody or PressPlay or whatever. But that still doesn't solve my Mac issue. When I told her it wasn't working on the Mac, she didn't really have an answer for me. After I got off the phone w/her, I tried it on my boss's PC, running Windows 98, and guess what? It didn't work there either! Crazy. Screw this, BROTHER CHRIS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 18:14:12 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: Re: why aren't you guys going nuts over "jeremy engle?" (sorry, Emil... I meant to send this one to the list... I have to remember to stop hitting reply) > Brian Falk: >> it seems like there should be more commotion over >> this one... Not everybody's been able to get the EP yet. > 2) it's so un-commercial, there isn't anything > resembling a chorus, or even a *refrain* -- there > isn't even a line that gets repeated *once* This is where I have to part ways with you... I groove on songs that have BOTH catchy pop hooks and/or traditional song format AND innovative lyrics. Songs don't win any points with me for being avante-garde unless it WORKS without having to rationalize it. That's a bit of a dodgy statement, I know, but it's something I just get a feel for. That being said, I need to listen to Jeremy Engle a little more to see what I think... - --Catherine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 19:07:24 -0400 From: Patrick Bucci Subject: Unknown Liz Songs (4th Album Roughs) I'm fairly new to this list, and I receive the mailings in digest form and don't always have the time to read them completely, so I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but nothing I've seen has alluded to it. A couple months ago, when I first heard that the new album had leaked onto the internet, I logged onto a file sharing network to attempt to find said files, and I ended up downloading three tracks, without titles, that I assumed to be taken from the new album. However, weeks later, with the album readily available, as well as the additional EP tracks, and now even the Apple Store bonus track, I have yet to see these original three tracks I downloaded surface. The files were in .aif format, so they were fairly large and I was only able to download three, of what appeared to be a whole album's worth, before the person who was sharing them disconnected from the network. In fact, the third track is cut short because it was mid-download when the disconnection occurred. They were simply titled "Track 03", "Track 05", and "Track 07", and were tagged in iTunes as "4th Album Roughs". Shortly later I was able to identify "Track 03" as "Red Light Fever", albeit in an different incarnation, much slower and quieter than the version that ended up on the album. "Track 05" contains the chorus "Tell me I'm a liar / A liar / Tell me I'm a liar" and "Track 07" the chorus "I'm in the rapids / And you're upstream / You're going to hit them after me / I'm in the rapids / And you're upstream / And you don't see it coming" I have since, after MANY, MANY attempts not been able to locate these files again anywhere. I'm assuming some one out there must know something about this tracks, considering they were downloadable from a peer-to-peer program and I guess I'm just interested in finding another "peer" who has these tracks and possibly more information about them, their origin, and better still, the remaining "4th Album Rough" tracks that I was not able to download. I would be more than willing to share any additional information about the songs that I have, lyrics, mp3s, etc. if the interest arises. Again, I would like to apologize profusely for wasting everybody's time if this has already been discussed at length and I somehow missed it (which would be most embarrassing). Thank you. Patrick simbeing@cox.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:05:20 -0400 From: "Michael Honaker" Subject: "Insanity" mp3 and ogg For those that are dying for the track and are among us out-of-the-loop PC users, you can find the link on the message board here: http://supernova.board.dk3.com/ (No, you do not have to register to view the board) In my opinion, the .ogg sounds much better, so if you want to give .ogg a chance, check it out. Otherwise, the mp3 is available too, in a 192 bitrate. Thanks to Erica for helping to figure this whole mess out. You rock, Erica! - -Michael http://suprnova.lunamorena.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jul 2003 20:28:07 -0400 From: Catherine Molanphy Subject: Re: Unknown Liz Songs (4th Album Roughs) I'm also new here (well, returning after long sabbatical), and "4th Album Roughs" is something I've never heard of. I hopehopehope someone out there has got all of these tracks. Liz's unpolished stuff is the stuff I love best, and what keeps me coming back. - --Catherine > From: Patrick Bucci > I have since, after MANY, MANY attempts not been able to locate these > files again anywhere. I'm assuming some one out there must know > something about this tracks, considering they were downloadable from a > peer-to-peer program and I guess I'm just interested in finding another > "peer" who has these tracks and possibly more information about them, > their origin, and better still, the remaining "4th Album Rough" tracks > that I was not able to download. I would be more than willing to share > any additional information about the songs that I have, lyrics, mp3s, > etc. if the interest arises. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 20:32:27 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Insanity Jesus Christ this is an awesome track. The more I hear of Liz's "trickling out" tracks, the more I despise the new album. Insanity is rough, quirky, funny, jazzy, poppy, modern and totally Liz Phair! Do we know anything about the production credits? Love that piano. I love Michael! james ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Jason Tedford Subject: Re: Unknown Liz Songs (4th Album Roughs) I don't think anyone on the list has mentioned finding or having any rough tracks/demos from the new album. I know I'm certainly intrigued to know this stuff is out there somewhere. What file sharing program were you using? Also, is there any way you could post/share the three tracks you found with the list? Jason Patrick Bucci wrote: I'm fairly new to this list, and I receive the mailings in digest form and don't always have the time to read them completely, so I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but nothing I've seen has alluded to it. A couple months ago, when I first heard that the new album had leaked onto the internet, I logged onto a file sharing network to attempt to find said files, and I ended up downloading three tracks, without titles, that I assumed to be taken from the new album. However, weeks later, with the album readily available, as well as the additional EP tracks, and now even the Apple Store bonus track, I have yet to see these original three tracks I downloaded surface. SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 23:56:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Griffes Subject: detroit show? the metro times says the show is this Sunday w/ tix going onsale the day before. that has to be a major misprint. Dan? Steve ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #174 ************************************