From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #166 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, June 25 2003 Volume 06 : Number 166 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Who is Mraz? ["J. Alan Doak" ] Chicago Shows ["Allison Nack" ] okay. so I listened to the new album... [Emil Breton ] Dark, kind of Haunting [Al Madrid ] there's no business like ho business ["dana p." ] more reviews [Emil Breton ] Liz like Cheryl or Avril [Al Madrid ] Re: No Worries! [TitleTK@aol.com] pimpin' aint easy [robert joyner ] humping guitars. [Stephen Griffes ] Internet EP ... HiQ file is working now ["trent [hardcore since '74l]" ] The saddest possible conclusion ["Falk, Brian" ] The saddest possible conclusion ["Falk, Brian" ] RE: Internet EP MP3s ["trent [hardcore since '74l]" ] 6'1 [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Jason who? ["Eric Ginsburg" ] New mailing list site & Support System message board [Jase ] An Album Review [TitleTK@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:18:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Alan Doak" Subject: RE: Who is Mraz? Jason Mraz currently has a song getting heavy rotation in Detroit called The Remedy. Too heavy IMHO. He sings about a "dangerous liason" and "won't worry my life away". j. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:24:35 -0500 From: "Allison Nack" Subject: Chicago Shows << I'm looking forward to seeing her live does anybody know when the Metro tickets go on sale? >> From Metromix.com: LIZ PHAIR, Thursday, Aug. 21, and Friday, Aug. 22 ($20, all ages) at Metro. On sale noon Saturday, June 28, at the box office. Allison Nack ABN Information Services 773/276-1570 fax 413/487-0994 allisonnack@earthlink.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:28:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: okay. so I listened to the new album... I borrowed a co-worker's copy of the album today, not so much to satisfy my curiosity (which, thank you very much, had been pretty much satisfied by hearing 5 songs in their entirety -- 6, if you count "Firewalker" live, and from hearing a total of 60 seconds from each of the other 8 songs in 'sample' form, AND from reading the lyrics in their entirety -- phew!) but so that I could be sure I wasn't jumping the gun or missing the boat. AHEM. I hope no one skips over my post because I've been so Liz-negative lately; I really am going to be as objective and (hopefully) adequately analytical in my diagnosis. "Extraordinary", "H.W.C.", and "Little Digger" are the standout tracks. "Extraordinary" works in that bombastic, sing-along, radio-song way, and the lyrics aren't that bad (at least not on the first 2 verses). It does *kind of* rock. "H.W.C." works because the vocal melody is indelible at times (particularly in the way it lays atop the minor chord on the refrain, and in the way Liz stretches out the word 'cum' -- or 'come', as it is unfortunately spelled on the lyric sheet! -- over 4 notes). Hilarious lyrics, of course (even though she's being frightfully sincere) but I agree with anyone who's miffed at the (perceived) shallowness of them, compared to, um, "Flower" (since that's become the comparison de rigeur). "Little Digger", for all its manipulativenss (and over-the-top literal-ness), is definitely a wrencher -- "I got it from my dad"... I'm not crying with Liz, but yeah. Very pretty vocal melody. As for the rest of the album: I can honestly say I don't care to hear it again. Not because I'm a meanie, or because I'm a snob, or because I need to get out in the sun more often, or because I'm just a "young guy" and have a lot to learn about life, love, happiness, and parenting. I just honestly do not find it interesting in any way. The lyrics really ARE as banal as I always knew they were; standing on their own (as they did in my mind for the past month or so), they're really sad -- like Liz either *tried* to be as un-complicated and un-poetic as she could be, or maybe that she just truly didn't have the time (or ability) to bother with writing "challenging" (her word!) lyrics anymore. (This, of course, is familiar territory, sorry for re-stating it; AND, after reading the transcribed lyrics from the EP just now, I think Liz may have proven me wrong on that second charge!) In the context of the music, the lyrics are -- surprisingly -- completely ignorable. I had to laugh (and I mean *laugh*) when I read the suggestions to ignore the lyrics and just dig the music (which allegedly rocked), but now I see what that was all about. They're just syllables -- and with Liz apparently not playing an instrument at all on this album (WHAT THE FUCK?), she needed all the syllables she could get. Completely ignorable, and that ain't a good thang. As for the music, I'm sorry, but there's nothing, nothing, nothing about it that impresses me (on, like, a Whip-Smart level) or even "works on me" (on, like, a SHAKIRA level). On that Sound Discussion show, Greg Kot pointed to Liz's "idiosyncratic riffs" from Girlysound and Exile in Guyville (he forgot Whip-Smart) as evidence of her originality and knowledgeability in rock form and composition. Even if she was a "tepid" guitar player (as asshole Jim Farber alleges) who never bent notes, played solos, or managed the fine art of palm-dampening, her knowledge of the fretboard was impressive and, quite frequently, confounding. If the melodies/progressions weren't utterly bold and dizzying (as on "Stratford-on-Guy" and "Nashville" -- OH! "Nashville"!!!), they were rocking (or folking) in a tried-and-true, Stones-y, kompletely klassic way ("Six Feet One", "X-Ray Man", "Jealousy"). On the new album, the chord progressions are completely unsurprising, uninventive, plaintive, happy/sad (but mostly happy), hackneyed, safe, and BORING. So *NO*, the music does not "rock" and does not in any way make up for the anonymity of the lyrics. At least not for me. Exceptional radio pop, to me, is "I Want to Hold Your Hand" or, I dunno, any Sugar Ray song -- y'know, songs that actually *go somewhere*. These songs go nowhere. But that's me. The album doesn't repulse me so much as it leaves me dry (like the great PJ Harvey once said). I have a theory about why some people are disgusted and confused about the supposed lack of perception amongst those of us who hate the album, but it may be too offensive (although it needn't be) for me to state publicly. All is know is, what I used to love (and still love) about Liz Phair is NOWHERE to be found on this album. The Pitchfork review that I just submitted articulates that sentiment more precisely, perhaps. Okay, now I'm going to try to listen to the EP -- take THAT, Kenneth M. Lee! -- and I have to say, I'm a little excited... Cheers (and, really -- no REALLY -- no hard feelings), Emil __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:44:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Stewart Subject: Damn EP Okay, I'm going crazy here. I bought the darn CD so I could hear the EP and it's not working. Is anyone else getting "Fatal Error: Unknown Content ID" and the like? Is this my problem or theirs? You can email me off list. Kate __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:11:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: Dark, kind of Haunting Anyone remember like 3 or 4 years ago when Liz was said to be recording that in some article she said that the new stuff that she was writing was more on the dark side or something like that. At the time, Bloodkeeper came to my mind and then when I heard the live version of Firewalker I thought that had that kind of sound to it. Well, these EP songs must've been what she was talking about. They follow along with Bloodkeeper. Kind of dark and haunting. I love it!!! Also, I think Liz can belt out a very cool rockin song so why didn't she do that with WCI last night? Also, has it ever occured to anyone that Liz may look a little afraid/timid on stage because she may have had a hard time hearing her self sing and she was trying to concentrate on making her voice sound clear? I get the impression she can't really relax because she's focusing too much on the way her voice is coming out to the audience? I wish she would have just relaxed and did one of those Supernova kicks between one of the guitar riffs. Oh well, I really enjoyed her and agree that the backup singer didn't need to be there. night. Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:19:35 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: there's no business like ho business i think that was me who started the "ho" thing (??) when i named andy sayler, her boss, as her pimp. that was after reading the account of andy picking out her clothes for her. i was being facetious, and i never specifically referred to her as a "ho," but i still can't believe she had to go into his office to try clothes on for him. i think it's disgusting. and i hate *him* for it, primarily. i'm sorry; i thought that was pretty clear. it ties into the whole issue of labels not knowing what to do with her and robert made some pertinent comments on that as well. (sorry, robert, if i'm dragging you into this...) *** i must say, i'm sorta shocked at how many think she sucked on leno--i thought she did fine!! i really do! and i *hate* that song, but i thought she did just fine with it. huh.... interesting. she hit all her notes. she used to be a wreck and now she's fine. hmmmm. at first i was sorta wondering how it took all those people to play it, but she was only doing rhthym, and only a tiny bit. it makes sense: bass, lead, rhythm, drums, and keyboard. 'cause, hey, in this "new direction" you gotta have the techno stuff going, the fills, etc., hence the keyboard. *** i think chris's point about those bands all having each other is a really, really good one. i think that's it. 'cause if label idiots start pushing for this or that, they have to go up against four people. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 16:32:33 -0500 (CDT) From: Catherine Lewis Subject: Pitchfork review - reader mail Hey -- Whoever posted that Pitchfork review, thanks -- you beat me to the punch. For those of you who don't know, I write news for Pitchfork (yes, I wrote a story about Liz Phair almost 2 years ago, one of those "here's who Phair is working with this week" articles), AND I also run Pitchfork's mailbag (letters-to-the-editor on M-Th, and I've recently started a Friday column of reader polls). The point is: I'm hoping that tomorrow's mail column is going to be responses to the Phair review. If you've got any comments that you want to share with PF's readers/writers as a whole, email me offlist at catherine@pitchforkmedia.com -- I won't print 'em all, but I am going to pick out the best ones. (I'm really not trying to sollicit mail.... just letting you know that there's a venue to voice your complaints/praise of today's review, in case any of you wanted to take anything you've said on-list to the writer directly.) (Also: I'm on digest, so please respond to me directly.) Catherine. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:36:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: more reviews Sorry, everyone's sick of reading my crap, I know, but here's 2 more reviews that I thought "hit it" (no text-pasting this time; I realize it may all be a bit much, but I do encourage you to check them out): http://www.shakingthrough.net/music/reviews/2003/liz_phair_liz_phair_2003.html http://www.stylusmagazine.com/musicreviews/liz_phair-liz_phair.shtml __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:56:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: Liz like Cheryl or Avril Hope I'm not boring ya'll with all of my postings. I do really have a life but work is slow right now. Anyway, last one for the night because I remembered I forgot to post this. someone wrote: - -------------I don't really understand why her label isn't trying to market her as another Sheryl Crow, who is plenty successful and radio friendly, instead of as Avril Lavigne. "Why Can't I" has practically the same chorus as "Complicated." - ----------------- Well, I lent the LP CD to a co-worker of mine yesterday, she's 42 and loves Cheryl Crow and also like Avril. I thought for sure she would like the album, but she gave it back to me and said pretty much, "you know, it's OK. I think she has a good voice and all but if I'm going to listen to music like that, I've got Cheryl Crow. Ouch! I was offended. Not that Cheryl is bad, just that she didn't like it enough to look beyond that. This is the same lady that I had listen to EIG and didn't get it. My reason for this post, maybe we give Avril too much emphasis on this new album. WCI, in my opinion is the only song that is similar and even then in its overall content, it doesn't sound at all like Avril's style. This woman knew nothing of the Avril "connection" that some of you point out too much. night for sure, Al NP: Shallow Opportunities __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:05:04 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: No Worries! In a message dated 6/25/03 3:26:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, yeahdude73@yahoo.com writes: << You "love the new album"? Do you mean the EP? I just heard it in its entirety for the first time today (the album, that is -- I'm cueing up to hear the EP shortly), and even if I ignore the utterly banal >> Actually, I'm tired of having personal jabs against my character for critisizing things -- so whenever I give any critisism from now on I'm gonna heap the album with praise. My real review coming soon (I'm sure you're trembling with anticipation). james ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:51:55 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: pimpin' aint easy - --- "dana p." wrote: > i think that was me who started the "ho" thing (??) > when i named andy > sayler, her boss, as her pimp. that was after > reading the account of andy > picking out her clothes for her. i was being ......i'm sorry; i thought that was pretty > clear. it ties into the whole issue of labels not > knowing what to do with > her and robert made some pertinent comments on that > as well. (sorry, > robert, if i'm dragging you into this...) I'm the "Ho" Man in question. thanks for the helpful words, Dana. No need to apologize to Andrea, though. Most folks on the list took our comparisons of andy slater- liz phair to a pimp and ho comments for what they were.... a telling analogy of the whole sickening thing going on in the GQ article. See, Andy slater isn't a pimp he's actually the head of a billion dollar record label. Liz isn't selling herself on the corner of hollywood and vine. She's in that big round building ON hollywood and vine, making records. I think if Andrea is only able to take the literal translation of what we said then she missed out on on things like sarcasm, dry humor, etc..... If i had wanted to actually call Liz a ho I would have said something along the lines of " Liz is a total ho bag slut that would bang anything on two feet". But I didn't say that because 1) i don't believe that to be true and 2) that was not the point i was trying to make. My guess is that Andrea has had such a politically correct indoctrination that certain words ring bells and set off alarms in her no matter what context they are used in. Kinda like the term "faggot" in bouncer's conversation which she seems to have problems with in spite of the fact she knows that Liz is far from a homophobe. I hope that no one ever played Patti Smith's "Rock and Roll Nigger" for her. It is a totally awesome song but it might make Andrea pass out in an apoplectic fit. robert ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Nashville - A Liz Phair Web Site http://www.geocities.com/robnashville - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:14:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Griffes Subject: humping guitars. I originally liked the cover of "Liz Phair". I thought it was tongue in cheek, making fun of those stupid guitar magazines that have scantily-clad women posing with guitars on the cover. But now I just don't get it. We've learned she doesn't play guitar on most of the album. I mean, we all still know liz's guitar playing is brilliant and that she has exceptional songwriting skills. I know she wrote/cowrote the songs on her album. I know lots of folks (stevie nicks for example) can play their own songs, but they have "professionals" (i hate that word but it fits here) play on the actual record. It sounds like that is what Liz did with this record. and however much of a letdown it is, it isn't that big of deal considering the music on the album isn't exceptional. But why sit spread eagle with a guitar between your legs on your album cover like its the latest issue of GuitarOne. What kind of impression does that give to any potential new audience? With regards to her voice. I never thought liz had the best voice, BUT it was perfectly suiting for what she did. When I saw her on the WCSE tour, I brought a friend who only owned WhipSmart. SHe enjoyed the show for the most part, but during certain songs (What Makes You Happy, Polyester Bride), my friend complained "WHY does she sing out of range like that? it sounds horrible!" and she was right. and that's how she sounded on Leno--shaky and far out of her range. I think a lot of the songs (esp the matrix songs) on "Liz Phair" feature out-of-range liz singing. but its cleaned-up so it sounds decent. so yeah, i like the album in a superficial sorta way, but i'm not really interested in seeing her peform most of these songs in concert. not that it matters, since it looks like she isn't coming to michigan anyway. Oh, and Jason Mraz's music is godawful. so if he's opening, show up late. you'd rather sit through the infamous slide show again, trust me. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:17:40 -0400 From: "trent [hardcore since '74l]" Subject: Internet EP ... HiQ file is working now I just tried downloading the higher quality .asf file and it's downloading (finally) :) t - --- "frankly it's ludicrous to have these interlocking bodies and not interlock please remove your clothing now." anya -- buffy the vampire slayer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:48:06 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: there's no business like ho business In a message dated 6/25/2003 5:19:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, daisywheel@mindspring.com writes: > i think that was me who started the "ho" thing (??) when i named andy > sayler, her boss, as her pimp. that was after reading the account of andy > picking out her clothes for her. i was being facetious, and i never > specifically referred to her as a "ho," but i still can't believe she had > to go into his office to try clothes on for him. i think it's disgusting. > and i hate *him* for it, primarily. i'm sorry; i thought that was pretty > clear. it ties into the whole issue of labels not knowing what to do with > her and robert made some pertinent comments on that as well. It's fine, glad it's cleared up. That's disgusting, that he made Liz try on all these clothes for him. Sometime the biz really suprises me, how low can he (they) go. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:52:34 -0400 From: "trent [hardcore since '74l]" Subject: Internet EP MP3s Okay ... I've converted the higher quality MP3s into WAVs and then into 192bps MP3s ... Would someone like them for hosting? trent - --- "frankly it's ludicrous to have these interlocking bodies and not interlock please remove your clothing now." anya -- buffy the vampire slayer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:57:58 -0400 From: "Falk, Brian" Subject: The saddest possible conclusion - ------------------------------ goddamit. i take no joy in this, but that pitchfork.com guy is right on...and so was yesterday's fark.com link/headline to her miami herald review: "Liz Phair releases mid-life crisis album. Playboy can't be far off." next to this was the simple, painfully correct tagline: "sad. (and please. fuck whether she would ever do playboy or not. that's not where i am going.) i am proud to say that for the last 5 years, i have defended liz phair through clenched teeth to anyone who dared start in with any "jump the shark" shit re: whitechocolatspacegg. i don't care how quirky and unnatual the title was- it was still a really good album. not her best, but that's really beside the point...twas still better than everybody else's stuff- including anyone you can name in the ridiculous (yawnnn...) sheryljewellalannisetc. club, whose careers i stubbornly insist are 100% owed to her influence. maybe i am preaching to the choir on that one, but sadly, you can always find people willing to debate it. but now what? i used to drive all over hell's half acre and take sick days and spend tons of money on her shows...am i supposed to do that to hear her sing "hot white cum?" yawn. i never cared whether she was singing fuck or blowjob before...the attraction was that she had something to say and was brilliant at expressing it (the pitchfork guy said it perfectly in his review). so now what? is she trying to capitalize on the fact that she was once made notorious (by a bunch of dipshits, if you ask me) for singing swear words... by making up a COMPLETELY VAPID song about spooge? what the fuck is that? i can remember 10 years ago, seeing the butthole surfers(great) and stone temple toilets(terrible) share a bill...the little trick of singing through a cheap megaphone into the mic. was passe even then...am i to stand in a crowd at the 930 club waiting to see if she'll pull one out to sing the "echo" part in "why can't i?" i hope when the tour begins in earnest, someone will report back to the list so we can find out how that little nugget of production magic is reproduced live. maybe she can even learn to do that idiotic little backwards pseudo-skank dance that scott weiland used to do. i would be indifferent about her choice to commence sucking, except i just want to know...who is she trying to bullshit? i know what it is like to be in one's mid 30s and divorced, and i understand the concept of taking one last stab at this little thing or that before you get too old. so she can extol her heretofore unfulfilled "love" of pop music all she wants ("oh no no, that WORKS for me...!" HA!). she can talk about how indie sucks and she always REALLY wanted to be a pop star all along and all the rest of the shit. i'm not buying it one bit. you don't make and album like exile in guyville without knowing better. liz is trying one last time to be the rich popular piece of ass she never quite became. i, in particular, like the magazine cover where she is pulling her jeans down as far as she can without unbottoning them or showing pubes (which i bet have long since been shaved off since that's what all the hot young betties are doing these days). boooooiiiing! hey babe, that's awesome! and really empowering! what a bunch of shit this all is. "liz phair releases mid-life crisis album..." man, talk about hitting on the head. [demime 0.97c removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef which had a name of winmail.dat] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:57:58 -0400 From: "Falk, Brian" Subject: The saddest possible conclusion - ------------------------------ goddamit. i take no joy in this, but that pitchfork.com guy is right on...and so was yesterday's fark.com link/headline to her miami herald review: "Liz Phair releases mid-life crisis album. Playboy can't be far off." next to this was the simple, painfully correct tagline: "sad. (and please. fuck whether she would ever do playboy or not. that's not where i am going.) i am proud to say that for the last 5 years, i have defended liz phair through clenched teeth to anyone who dared start in with any "jump the shark" shit re: whitechocolatspacegg. i don't care how quirky and unnatual the title was- it was still a really good album. not her best, but that's really beside the point...twas still better than everybody else's stuff- including anyone you can name in the ridiculous (yawnnn...) sheryljewellalannisetc. club, whose careers i stubbornly insist are 100% owed to her influence. maybe i am preaching to the choir on that one, but sadly, you can always find people willing to debate it. but now what? i used to drive all over hell's half acre and take sick days and spend tons of money on her shows...am i supposed to do that to hear her sing "hot white cum?" yawn. i never cared whether she was singing fuck or blowjob before...the attraction was that she had something to say and was brilliant at expressing it (the pitchfork guy said it perfectly in his review). so now what? is she trying to capitalize on the fact that she was once made notorious (by a bunch of dipshits, if you ask me) for singing swear words... by making up a COMPLETELY VAPID song about spooge? what the fuck is that? i can remember 10 years ago, seeing the butthole surfers(great) and stone temple toilets(terrible) share a bill...the little trick of singing through a cheap megaphone into the mic. was passe even then...am i to stand in a crowd at the 930 club waiting to see if she'll pull one out to sing the "echo" part in "why can't i?" i hope when the tour begins in earnest, someone will report back to the list so we can find out how that little nugget of production magic is reproduced live. maybe she can even learn to do that idiotic little backwards pseudo-skank dance that scott weiland used to do. i would be indifferent about her choice to commence sucking, except i just want to know...who is she trying to bullshit? i know what it is like to be in one's mid 30s and divorced, and i understand the concept of taking one last stab at this little thing or that before you get too old. so she can extol her heretofore unfulfilled "love" of pop music all she wants ("oh no no, that WORKS for me...!" HA!). she can talk about how indie sucks and she always REALLY wanted to be a pop star all along and all the rest of the shit. i'm not buying it one bit. you don't make and album like exile in guyville without knowing better. liz is trying one last time to be the rich popular piece of ass she never quite became. i, in particular, like the magazine cover where she is pulling her jeans down as far as she can without unbottoning them or showing pubes (which i bet have long since been shaved off since that's what all the hot young betties are doing these days). boooooiiiing! hey babe, that's awesome! and really empowering! what a bunch of shit this all is. "liz phair releases mid-life crisis album..." man, talk about hitting on the head. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 20:21:00 -0400 From: "trent [hardcore since '74l]" Subject: RE: Internet EP MP3s Oops, last email should have read: Okay ... I've converted the higher quality Internet EP .asf file into 5 individual WAVs and then into 192bps MP3s ... Would someone like host them for the mailing list? trent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:42:19 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 19:01:26 +0200 From: Nikolaus Mitsarakis To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: I feel cheated... Hi phans and former phans, what's the point in NOT putting the passable-to-good songs of a 14-minute Internet-EP on an overall disappointing 50-minute CD-album (CDs can contain up to 80 minutes of noise)? They certainly would have made the overall thing not such a great bummer, and with less handling and searching on the net as well. As a big phan from "Exile In Guyville" on, I really was looking forward to seeing her live one day here in Europe. I guess I'll probably pass now. A former big phan, Niko ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 18:54:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: the EP Just a quick note before I go to bed (yes, at 9:30; yes, I really do have a job and a life). I got the EP to download on my girlfriend's computer (but not before I made her listen to my 3 "favorites" -- Christ, you guys think *I'm* a wet blanket...). We haven't been able to burn it to CD yet (like everyone & their uncle), but that's looking more like a mere bump in the road on our way to ecstasy. I haven't had the time (or the right atmosphere) to absorb these new songs, so I'm just going to gush about the one I got to hear twice: "Jeremy Engle" is, lyrically, as hysterically funny and flat-out WEIRD as anything Liz has ever done, and I'm including Girlysound. Venison-eating communists on the Upper West Side? Tolstoy? "Sometimes all you need is a napkin"? This song has some serious got-to-be-good-lookin'-cuz-he's-so-hard-to-see shit going on. Like all great Liz songs, I initially have no idea what she's talking about, but then it's like, "Holy shit! That's too cool!" Dan, Jase, et al. were right -- I didn't trust you guys, but you were so right. This is classic. Liz, my love... Come back to me, please come back. That's the girl I fell in love with. You're still in there, still melting my heart. Talk about coming home to "your sexy, worn-in sweatpants" or whatever she said. Ken Lee, pass it on to the woman: "Jeremy Engle" is a hit, and whenever she wants to start that song-a-month club, I've got a little bit of credit in my account at MasterCard with her name written on it. Er, you know what I mean. Love, Emil __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 21:59:06 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: 6'1 > thanks for the helpful words, Dana. No need to > apologize to Andrea, though. Most folks on the list > took our comparisons of andy slater- liz phair to a > pimp and ho comments for what they were.... a telling > analogy of the whole sickening thing going on in the > GQ article. See, Andy slater isn't a pimp he's > actually the head of a billion dollar record label. > Liz isn't selling herself on the corner of hollywood > and vine. She's in that big round building ON > hollywood and vine, making records. I think if Andrea > is only able to take the literal translation of what > we said then she missed out on on things like sarcasm, > dry humor, etc..... > > If i had wanted to actually call Liz a ho I would > have said something along the lines of " Liz is a > total ho bag slut that would bang anything on two > feet". But I didn't say that because 1) i don't > believe that to be true and 2) that was not the point > i was trying to make. > > My guess is that Andrea has had such a politically > correct indoctrination that certain words ring bells > and set off alarms in her no matter what context they > are used in. Kinda like the term "faggot" in > bouncer's conversation which she seems to have > problems with in spite of the fact she knows that Liz > is far from a homophobe. I hope that no one ever > played Patti Smith's "Rock and Roll Nigger" for her. > It is a totally awesome song but it might make Andrea > pass out in an apoplectic fit. > > I'm glad he did apologize. Even if this was a joke, it's a bad one. And I will end with this, you justifying your sexist comment makes you a much bigger fool then I. Go ahead, it's flame war time. Jase do you want to head this off at the pass or what. I will not apologize for my comments. I have just as much right to call you a fool, and much worse, as you do. A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:14:16 -0400 From: "Eric Ginsburg" Subject: Jason who? You think so? With Buddy Judge? I thought the WCSE band kicked butt. Then again, I did see them at a tiny club show, better than those huge gymnasiums. By the way, who the hell is Jason Mraz? - -Ginz >band. The WCSE touring band sounded way to thin, with >no backbone in their sound. These guys sounded good >though, especially the drums. > >Craig _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:43:16 -0400 From: Jase Subject: New mailing list site & Support System message board Hey everyone, It's a work in progress, but I wanted to let you know the new mailing list site is now online. The URL is [http://home.cogeco.ca/~phairist/]. There's still a few things I'm working on, but I wanted to get something online to coincide with the release of the new album, especially since the old mailing list site has been all but dead for a while now. I've been uploading each section as I've completed it; as a result, the info on the index, news and tour dates pages already need to be updated, since they were among the first to go online. I also need to upload the individual lyrics pages and the bootlegs section of the discography, but I hope to have all of that done by the end of the weekend. I'm also going to play around with the design and graphics a bit; I'm not sure that I'm completely happy with everything yet. It's not linked from the site yet, but I've also set up a message board. It's not meant to replace the list in any way -- I do want the list to remain as active as it currently is -- but more or less be an extension of it. I'm a member of a couple of other boards and they do have some advantages mailing lists don't. I know at least a few other people here also post at the hole.com board and one of the things I like so much about it as the range of different forums that are available. In addition to the music-related forums, the general forums also offer places to discuss books and literature, movies, politics, etc. I like the fact that a group of people brought together by a common interest in a band or artist have the freedom to also discuss any range of other subjects. The board can also be a place where people can post polls related to discussions taking place on the list and be able to upload pictures taken at shows, etc. It just has some additional features/capabilities that I feel make it a great complement to the list itself. Also, for those who don't enjoy the occasional off-topic threads on the list, the message board gives you the advantage of not having to view anything that's not relevant to the forum you're viewing. If anyone wants to check out the board, the URL is [http://phair.proboards19.com/index.cgi]. So far, I've only set up four forums: one for Liz-related discussion, one for discussion of all other bands and artists that I've dubbed "Headache," one for trading of bootlegs and memorabilia (people can also post their want lists there), and then a "General Discussion" forum, which is designated for everything else. Once I have some feedback about what kinds of additional forums people would like to see, I'll add them, rather than just have one all-encompassing general forum. Please feel free to check it out and let me know what you think. Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 22:58:57 -0400 From: Jase Subject: RE: Internet EP songs Charles wrote: >hello all. i'm fairly new to this list. what is this internet EP >everyone's talking about and where can one get a hold of it?? There's a secure link on the CD itself that takes you to a site where you can download or stream the EP. It's definitely worth checking out; the songs are all great. Of the two download options, choose the [100] one -- the songs were encoded at a higher bitrate and, as such, the quality is much better. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 23:37:55 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: An Album Review Okay, nobody really cares . . . but I need to get down some final thoughts about the new album. I think what is most frustrating about Liz Phair's Liz Phair is that it could have been really good, if not great . . . and it could have been great to her, the music industry and us poor idiotic losers. After five years the album feels rushed . . . the songs don't add up to anything. Strangely, of the all the tracks, I think I like the three singles best. Extraordinary is a great little rocker. I don't like all the synthesized crap or the "average everyday psycho blah blah" shit, but I think the song has the feeling of 6'1. In both songs, she starts an entire album by pointing the finger at someone else: "I am extraordinary . . . who the hell are you" "And I loved my life . . . and I hated you" Very few artists write with this kind of authority . . . and this should have been THE single. Rock me . . . okay, forever and ever I will change the title and line to "fuck me." That's what it would have been if Liz wasn't trying to get this on the radio. I also love the self-referencing. Why? Because it shows Liz is aware of her status in the musical world. And I think there should be more of this. I think this album (whether Liz knows it or not) is ABOUT being an aging legend. Why Can't I, I think is stupid, but somehow kind of fun . . . I think it makes a cute little single. But then there is what I'm going to refer to as "the filler." And God is there enough on this album to fill 12 Avril Lavigne albums. The majority of the songs (ironically mostly produced by Michael Penn) are just terribly boring. Red Light Fever . . . It's Sweet (I know some of you like it . . . I don't think it goes anywhere), Take a Look, Favorite (hideous), Friend of Mine and Good Love Never Dies. Each of these songs could have been scratched and replaced by the brilliant EP songs which would have fit wonderfully into the album's theme. So, what's left? Firewalker and My Bionic Eyes. Good songs. I like the way Liz's voice doesn't sound electronic. It's painfully obvious with the tracks that she produced that the others have been electonisized. Is it possible Liz didn't want her voice played with and others pushed her to do so? Probably not . . . but we can dream. Okay, now with H.W.C., Little Digger, and Love/Hate. These three songs could have been mind warping great. What they are missing is the essential Liz Phair element of irony. Flower is a masterpiece b/c we aren't sure what to think. Is it a love song, a song of empowerment, or just a horny girl? Is it supposed to be funny or tragic? No one knows . . . in H.W.C Liz is singing about Hot White Cum and how much she likes it . . . as catchy as it . . . it is very forgettable. Love/Hate could have been a masterpiece. I don't have any problem with the production, but the lyrics . . . eh . . . I've been unconsciously making up my own. This song has no point of view (and Liz is all about point of view) whatsoever. And this leaves us with Little Digger, which I am going to call the worst song on the album. This song should have a surgeon general's warning on it. This lyrics are so painfully obvious I listened to it over and over in the car just to make sure I wasn't missing something. I like the idea of the song, but something has to be done to turn it into more than just a sweet and low packet. If I'm missing something (and please don't say a heart) please get back to me, b/c I still get the distinct feeling I am. So, what does this leave us with? If I could redo the album I would keep the three singles . . . play them on the radio, they're fun summer songs. Replace the filler with the EP songs. After all, WS has three rockin' singles and the rest quirky, bizarre pieces, it's just the rockin' singles didn't (for better or worse) have the production values to get played on the radio. Keep Firewalker and My Bionic Eyes, they are worthy of Liz. Then, go back and do a second draft of HWC, L/H, and Little Digger. To me, that would be a great album, with consistent themes, some hits, and something to chew on. I know, I know, it's not my album . . . and Liz, do whatever the hell you want, but for god's sakes, next time at least play your fuckin' guitar. See ya'll at the Bowery Ballroom and the Metro! james ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #166 ************************************