From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #165 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, June 25 2003 Volume 06 : Number 165 Today's Subjects: ----------------- 98.7 Star Lounge ?! [Paul Veravanich ] EP [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: Re: Making MP3's of the Internet EP [NeverTell1117@aol.com] obligatory "what if" track list question ["Chris DeLisle" ] Leno, EP, etc. ["Chris DeLisle" ] making it big [Dan MacDonald ] The New Album and Leno ["Andrea Steiner" ] so is Liz headlining or not? ["Kathy Bunch" ] PS ["Andrea Steiner" ] U2 / REM question ["Chris DeLisle" ] KCRW show [NDisgize2@aol.com] Re: The New Album and Leno [Brett Jones ] Jimmy Kimmel Live Looking for Diehard Liz fans [Al Madrid ] naked ["dana p." ] Re: obligatory "what if" track list question [NeverTell1117@aol.com] comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Jeremy Engle [NeverTell1117@aol.com] comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Bouncer's Coversation [NeverTell1117@ao] comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Fine Again [NeverTell1117@aol.com] comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Hurricane Cindy [NeverTell1117@aol.com] comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Shallow Opportunities [NeverTell1117@ao] cred ["dana p." ] KCRW Morning Becomes Eclectic set [jzaphiri@ix.netcom.com] Pitchfork review [Emil Breton ] Internet EP songs [Al Madrid ] RE: Internet EP songs [Charles Pham ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 22:19:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Veravanich Subject: 98.7 Star Lounge ?! So I set my VCR to tape 98.7 Star today (6/24) from 2pm to 4pm. I get home from work ready to listen to Liz's Star Lounge session and, as far as I can tell, there was nothing. The only thing close was when the station played "Why Can't I" - the CD version - at about 3:30pm. Granted I was fast forwarding through the tape and only stopping every couple minutes or so, but what the heck am I missing here? No Star Lounge session as far as I can tell. (To anyone interested, I will attempt to tape the KCRW Morning Becomes Eclectic show, but the quality will be somewhat poor. I do not get KCRW very well). Paul SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:25:30 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: EP This is so much better than the album, and I love the album. This sounds like the Liz I know. Her album is fine for what it is, but I don't think I'll ever get totally used to Liz Phair, Pop Star. I couldn't download it, as my connection failed, going to try it on my mom's PC, she has a cable modem, and it may go better there. Then if I ever get a burner, I can make copies. I too, wish, 'faggot' wasn't on Bouncer's Conversation, but I know Liz is no homophobe, just that the character is. it makes me wince, but it doesn't mar a great song. But I must take issue to whoever said Liz was a 'ho.' That comment is totally out of line. I can't believe that someone who likes Liz enough to be on this list, would make a comment like that. If she's taught you, and us anything, it's that women deserve better, and it starts with getting rid of sexist words like 'ho.' Would you say that to Liz's face, she'd cream you. I don't mean to be insulting, but this comment bothered me a lot, and I don't think it belongs on the list. Whether you love or hate the album, her photos, or new image, is okay, but you go overboard when you attack her personally. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 02:08:59 EDT From: NeverTell1117@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Making MP3's of the Internet EP >I've never used Windows Media Player to burn to a blank CD before; usually, >I use Adaptec Easy CD Creator. Does it burn it as an .asf file, so it can >still only be played on a computer, or as a .wav, so it can be played in >any CD player? > >Jase I'm assuming it burned it as a .wav file because I was able to use Sonic Foundry's Acid 3.0 to rip it to a .wav file. If you have WMP, you can burn a cd by (1) having the file in the playlist and going to File, Copy, Copy To Audio CD, or (2) adding the file to your media library (in WMP), right clicking on the file, then selecting Copy to Audio CD. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:05:08 -0400 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: obligatory "what if" track list question now that we've got the 5 song EP in our hands ~ and let's not forget the song "Down" ~ what would have been your idea of the "ideal" tracklisting for Liz Phair's latest album? how about keeping your version from 14-16 tracks. mine? 1) Love/Hate Transmission 2) Red Light Fever 3) It's Sweet 4) Bouncer's Conversation 5) Down 6) Jeremy Engle 7) Rock Me 8) Favorite 9) Little Digger 10) Firewalker 11) My Bionic Eyes 12) Hurricane Cindy (new version) 13) Fine Again 14) Friend of Mine if there was a 15th track, i'd be hard-pressed to choose between "Take A Look" and "Extraordinary." the record might be missing some of its "rock punch," but i would rank this one right up there with "Whip-Smart," certainly. "Friend of Mine," for me, has much more "oomph" as a closing track then, say, "Good Love Never Dies" or "Girls Room." and who knows WHAT an ideal album would look like if she happens to release any more songs. cue Homer: more songs...(drooling noise) chris deLisle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 05:46:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: Liz stuff Just saw Liz on Leno and I thought it sounded good. My only complaints were the backup singer and keyboardist. There was no need for either. Not to mention the fact that the backup singer didn't compliment Liz's voice at all. The rest of her band sounded good though. Much better than the WCSE band, that's for sure. Much more of a full sound with this band, which was a big complaint of mine with the old band. The WCSE touring band sounded way to thin, with no backbone in their sound. These guys sounded good though, especially the drums. Even though I've been listening to it for a few months now, I love the new album just as much now as when I first heard it. That damn internet EP is really pissing me off though. It's only letting me download 1/3 of it or so. Hopefully I'll be able to get the whole thing downloaded sooner or later. Craig __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 09:11:20 -0400 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: Leno, EP, etc. yes, i think last night's performance was a disaster. i think it clearly showed how overly-produced the song was ~ they couldn't reproduce it on stage. this is normally not a problem ~ in fact, i always hope songs sound a little bit different live than on the album. however, i think last night's performance was weak compared with the original version. i, too, am sick and tired of all the bashing. she's getting it from everywhere. the press, other bulletin boards...and especially here. your comment about it sounding like each negative review has come from a former "vindictive boyfriend" is SO on the money. i post quite a bit these days to the "Sound Opinions" Message Board (the show is hosted by Jim DeRogatis and Greg Kot (?)). those people know a hell of a lot about music, but Liz is mostly either entirely dismissed or the aforementioned "vindictive boyfriends" come out of the woodworks. the show is based out of Chicago ~ that might have something to do with it. but most of the press i've read elsewhere is downright malicious sometimes. record reviews should be guides, not rants. i think the GQ story was a really well-written story ~ and fair. but a lot of these reviews are short-sighted, emphasizing way-too-much on "HWC" and the whole "Matrix" deal. reminds me again how EXILE was basically reviewed as "Flower," "Fuck & Run" and "that hot girl singing dirty songs." LOOOOOOOOOVE the EP songs. chris deLisle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:10:50 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: making it big over pavement wrote: also, here's a question for the group: think of u2 and r.e.m., just to name two (although i think it would be hard to name 10). how did they manage to get so huge and still manage to maintain their credibility. i think they got big in "their way". I thought whitechocolatespaceegg was going to make liz big "her way". i loved wcse - i think it's a fantastic, radio friendly album of smart-pop. the difference now is, she's trying to get big avril lavigne's way, or sheryl crow's way - not that there is anything wrong with either artist - it's just not "liz's way". R.E.M. got big by sounding like R.E.M. they never said - "okay - fuck this, we're gonna drop the thought-provoking songs and start sounding like Pear Jam." u know? for me - the new album doesn't start until track four - and i consider the first three songs just amusing little tunes. who cares? they're stupid and fun. james wrote: But she'll never be a pop star, and I have a feeling the next few albums will bring her back to urban grit. i agree with this totally. i think this album may turn out to be a slap in the face for liz. she's trying to sell herself to a new audience, but all the reviewers are bringing up the old liz and comparing it - which makes for a PILE of god-awful reviews. i'm dying to know where the album hit chart-wise for a debut. should be interesting. but after seeing that shakey performance on leno last night, yer right - there's no way she's gonna be a pop star. that was pure old Liz. shakey voice, nervous look. and those high notes. i thought she took singing lessons? it was endearing though. god, i love her. i had a "liz phair day" yesterday. pathetic i know. me and my friends sat in my backyard all day and played every single liz recording known to humankind, and ended it with the new album. it was pretty fun. and lame. liz on leno was the cherry on the cake. what a perfect liz phair day. dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:06:48 -0400 From: "Andrea Steiner" Subject: The New Album and Leno Still have two songs left to listen to on the new album, but my initial reaction is "Eh, it's ok, but it's definitely Liz's weakest album." I wonder if I would have felt this way if I hadn't been reading all the early reviews, and if I hadn't had the pre-conceived notion that Liz is selling out. It is definitely way overproduced. It made me really miss the orchestrated yet quirky sounds of WCSE (which I absolutely loved, even though I know a lot of people weren't as thrilled with it.) My brother asked me if I bought it because I'm a fan, and not because I think it will actually be good. I replied that Liz is my musical goddess regardless, so I have no choice but to get the album. I am rather perturbed at the way Liz is being marketed and pushed on the teeny-bopper masses. I don't really understand why her label isn't trying to market her as another Sheryl Crow, who is plenty successful and radio friendly, instead of as Avril Lavigne. "Why Can't I" has practically the same chorus as "Complicated." My brother also commented that on Leno, Liz looked like she knew her song sucked and that she's a, as someone on this list so eloquently stated it, a corporate whore. I defended her by saying she looked nervous and that she always has stage fright issues. So far the only two songs on the new album that make me in any way think of the old Liz that we all so obsessively adore, are Little Digger (which reminded of Only Son) and Bionic Eyes (which reminded me of X-Ray Man.) I gotta say, Little Digger gave me chills. Well thank goodness for that--it means Liz's album hasn't been completely stripped of her ability to be original and compelling. I hope that what someone else on the list said is true--that Liz will take this opportunity to get really successful, so that she can go back to her unique, edgy and subversive roots (once her label gets off her back to sell records.) ~Andrea S. *Can't we petition someone to make it so that outside stuff is the key to happiness? I'm tired of people always saying 'It's gotta come from you.' Can't it come from, like, a new pair of shoes? --Owen Wilson* - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:21:14 -0600 From: "Kathy Bunch" Subject: so is Liz headlining or not? Hello. Coming out of lurking to hopefully clear up some confusion. I got an email today from a house of blues concert series mailing list that I get and it said "House of Blues Concerts presents Jason Mraz with Liz Phair (in tiny print) at Paramount Theatre. The internet presale password is even Mraz. To me, this makes it seem like she will be opening for him. Does anyone know what's really going on with this? I'd really rather not pay $30 + to watch her play 6 songs again as an opener... Also, who is Jason Mraz? I've never heard of him. Thanks- Kat _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:29:19 -0400 From: "Andrea Steiner" Subject: PS I do really like HWC. That's another song that reminds me of vintage Liz. ~Andrea S. *Can't we petition someone to make it so that outside stuff is the key to happiness? I'm tired of people always saying 'It's gotta come from you.' Can't it come from, like, a new pair of shoes? --Owen Wilson* - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:31:19 -0400 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: U2 / REM question i think one of the reasons why U2 and REM were able to get as far as they did and still retain some integrity was because they were each a band of four individuals who saw to it that the band was more important than one individual in the band. now, if Liz Phair had 3 other band members who could help guide her in one direction, then we wouldn't have had the mixed reactions to the "wcse" and "LP" records. don't get me wrong, i love both of the records. but i think that each one has too many producers pulling her in too many directions. that's kind of the difference between the Beatles and Elvis, too: if Elvis had had others to share his experience (and not just "yes men" like the Memphis Mafia), perhaps he would have had a much better ACT TWO (after his stint in the army). the Beatles always had each other. chris deLisle ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:32:28 EDT From: NDisgize2@aol.com Subject: KCRW show If anyone out there is able to record her performance and/or interview and be able to send it to me in mp3 or wav format I would be eternally grateful. And, on a side note...who is going to be going to the SF show? I had a few questions... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:52:08 -0400 From: Brett Jones Subject: Re: The New Album and Leno Andrea Steiner wrote: > I hope that what someone else on the list said is true--that Liz will > take this opportunity to get really successful, so that she can go back > to her unique, edgy and subversive roots (once her label gets off her > back to sell records.) I wonder how many artists sell out so they can make some money, only to move back to the music that wasn't selling to please their artistic side? Can't be many. Liz also seems to be embracing the "corporate whore" thing (the going along with the tartish marketing, etc.), which worries me. I also can't imagine the record label is going to get off her back if she makes money, I'd think they'd push her for more of the same. Major labels don't seem to care about anything but the cash cow. Milk it dry, then grind the thing up for hamburger. I've stayed away from any new Liz stuff (other than take look), I wanted to wait until LP was released, so hearing her sing on Leno last night was the first I'd heard of her new stuff. I like the wobbly voice, I find it very endering, but the song itself didn't do much for me. I'll stop by someplace and pick up the cd this week. I want to support Liz, even if LP is shit, her past work has earned my $17.00 for this album. - -- Brett Jones brett@5foot2.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 10:00:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: Jimmy Kimmel Live Looking for Diehard Liz fans to be in the audience in L.A. http://www.star987.com/main.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:34:31 -0500 From: fallout@purdue.edu Subject: Re: Because I feel like she's my ex-girlfriend too. To those who complain about the sea of vindictive reviews that treat Phair as a back-stabbing ex-girlfriend, just keep those posting glowing reviews that treat her new career with any dignity or respect. Their sure to start popping up any second now. Knock yourselves out. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:01:49 -0500 From: "Orange Nish" Subject: Re: The New Album and Leno >want to support Liz, even if LP is shit, her past work has earned my >$17.00 for this album. Or be like me, and pick it up at Target for $10. The song that I cannot stop singing along to is "Good Love Never Dies," although I think that having Liz say some random comment in the middle of the song, trying to replicate a "live" performance, ruins the pace of the song, and is a little disjointing. Other than that, the album is okay -- but "It's Sweet" is horrible. It's catchy for about two seconds during the chorus, and then goes straight back to crapsville. It's strange to hear "Firewalker" without all the "whoos" during the song -- and to whomever posted a long time ago saying that they noticed "despite of" was changed to "in spite of," yes, I noticed that too; I'm fully realizing my Liz dorkitude. As for Liz on Leno, I thought it was a shitty performance. It was seriously *bad*. While her voice was shaky, it wasn't the enduring "old Liz" voice shake, just some bad singing. From hearing her sing live before, I know that her voice just doesn't automatically turn to shit when she's not in a studio. And the backup singer also bugged me -- they couldn't harmonize at all. I taped the performance, and I'll try to force myself to watch that trainwreck again, because there's this one part where the music, Liz, and the backup singer have *nothing* in common. It was like they were all playing/singing different songs, and badly at that. It doesn't help that something so computerized in the studio does not transfer at all to a live performance. I hope her performance on Jimmy Kimmel isn't as bad -- because I'm looking forward to Liz being the only good thing on that show. One more thing: I found it incredibly amsusing that the day I buy "Liz Phair," I watch a "That '70s Show" rerun where Kelso sells his "special men" to a clinic. I couldn't help myself from singing HWC. _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 11:02:38 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: naked [Isn't Liz nearly naked on the cover of Exile and in its liner notes? Was it okay and artistic then and, if so, why not now?] it's a matter of context and liz, i think, would be the first to agree. this is why she turned down posing for playboy. she couldn't figure out a way to do it where it really truly isn't about just objectifying her body for men. and, for the record, she's on the cover of EIG, but that's not her in the liner notes. and that cover was about being snotty. i think it's a fantastic photo. i don't have a problem with nudity per se, but, again, it's all about context and when you've got someone doing cheesecake and then trying to "justify" it by saying crap like "oh, it's about empowerment..." instead of just being honest and saying "i need to jumpstart my career and this is the tried-and-true method...." i mean, just be honest. if you want to do it, fine, but at least have the cajones to be up-front about the motivation. people understand the need to make a living. and as far as i can tell, she's not happy about having to do some of those photos. but apparently she had to do them. it's just that the whole "empowerment" argument.... good fucking grief. shut up already. i hate that crap. it's one of those where you say "ok, sweetie, if that's what you need to tell yourself...." *** and here's another one for the record: speaking for myself, anyway ('cause that's all i can do), a lot of what i'm talking about has to do with the motivations of art making, really. sorry i'm dissing her choices. i'm just wondering aloud. i'm an artist myself and i have to deal with the same stuff and as i go further along and start working in The Industry, it's just gonna get "worse." i think people are so interested in what her decisions are because of her truly phenomenal talent and because, to me, the music industry being what it is, it's a fucking miracle that EIG ever got made in the first place.***saw her on leno; she did a great job. sounded great. *** i know alot of people compare her to sheryl, and it seems she wants to imitate her trajectory, so it seems to me she's gonna have to do some extensive touring. i'm pretty sure that's how sheryl rose to prominence, right? like, a few years ago, she's really put on one hell of a show, right? she plays all these instruments and stuff. seemed to me she was interested in presenting herself as a consummate musician. the outfits came later. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:12:54 EDT From: NeverTell1117@aol.com Subject: Re: obligatory "what if" track list question 1) Love/Hate 2) Red Light Fever 3) Hurricane Cindy 4) Bouncer's Coversation 5) Shallow Opportunities 6) My Bionic Eyes 7) It's Sweet 8) Jeremy Engle 9) Fine Again 10) Friend Of Mine 11) Good Love Never Dies 12) Firewalker unwanted extra track) Rock Me unwanted extra track) Extraordinary and yes, I meant to leave off Little Digger... - -Robbie- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:45:53 EDT From: NeverTell1117@aol.com Subject: comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Jeremy Engle Jeremy Engle lives in a tangled rent controlled apartment with his communist family there are books all around them the dining room table is lacquered with news clippings yellowing badly they argue at dinner his brother's friends drop by to throw a line in or two about Tolstoy they all play guitar and they're all very far away and they're on lines from the upper west side of manhattan I never got past his googly eyes that looked at me sadly in mocking surprise they way a lord (?) looks at his place mat or a stain on his tie it never happened for me and Jeremy Engle though wanted to step through that portal and try on that other dimension of high high ??? Jeremy's hair and brow (?) grow very high not not I (?) I'm more of a napkin (?) not blessed with the vision beyond how I'm matching the china and wine now there are the angles (?) skewering men and chewing through six pounds of venison ??? that they shot up in upstate New York at their uncle's Jeremy needs me to wipe off his eye some gelatinous thingy that his brothers are bottling mouthful let fly (?) sometimes all you need is a napkin sometimes all you need is a napkin - -Robbie- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:46:49 EDT From: NeverTell1117@aol.com Subject: comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Bouncer's Coversation see that girl alone dressed all in her evening clothes she's dying cause her boyfriend didn't show up pull her out of line stick her in the waiting room and ignore her till her face gets really bloated and I wonder what it's like to be second all the time you never get it right and you're never gonna win and your ass is on your face and your life is such a waste and there's sugar waving in the window see that Amazon her head looks like it's connected to her shoulders they look like little boulders turn her round and round take a mental picture of her naked inebriated face down on the linoleum and I wonder what it's like to be second all the time you never get it right and you're never gonna win and your ass is on your face and your life is such a waste and there's sugar walking to the dressing room oh and what would I give to be her joyride daddy-o tonight and I wonder what it's like to be second all the time you never get it right and you're never gonna win and your ass is on your face and your life is such a waste and there's sugar heading to the barrio with a faggot on her left and a faggot on her right and my dick is getting limp cause the chicks all suck tonight and the band is such a bore and I've seen it all before and there's sugar making me a video oh what would I give to be her joyride daddy-o tonight - -Robbie- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:48:13 EDT From: NeverTell1117@aol.com Subject: comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Fine Again you travel back unwind and unpack and it's fine again I get a ring you're bringing me things and it's fine again everyone wonders how we stay in love and I tell them that it's hell when it's bad but it's good good good when it's good and boy it is good to be back to be back to be back I give a shake you don't even break cause it's fine again all the world looks like it's taking a bath cause it's fine again everyone wonders how we stay in love and I tell them that it's hell when it's bad but it's good good good when it's good and boy is it good to be back to be back to be back - -Robbie- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:48:46 EDT From: NeverTell1117@aol.com Subject: comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Hurricane Cindy what's that piece of ass I see walking over here? what's that little shy thing make it dissappear and when I walk on a cyclone you should see it get rolling open my heart and emotions rip out of me my emotions rip out of me don't you want to kill her knock her off her chair? god I think I will if she keeps playing with her hair and when I walk I'm a cyclone you should she it get rolling open my heart and emotions rip out of me my emotions rip out of me and I wonder whose turn it is tonight to be the girl that people will look upon and sigh "how beautiful, how lovely, she's so beautiful, so lovely, beautiful, lovely" ah I can't stand myself I can't stand my life I can't stand in these six inch heels anymore and when I walk I'm a cyclone you should see it get rolling open my heart and emotions rip out of me my emotions rip out of me and when I walk I'm in high school you should see the commotion a hundred people drowning in oceans inside of me - -Robbie- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 14:52:01 EDT From: NeverTell1117@aol.com Subject: comeandgetit - deciphered lyrics: Shallow Opportunities I don't understand you you're just a man who talks at me I'll just sit and take your pleasantry until you run out of things to run past me I don't have a reason I don't have a plan I operate on instinct I give you the best of me my sexy sexy slight of hand I'll wait right here till you get back and take my shallow opportunity if you can't guess that I'm hanging out to see what you can do for me cause you were new to me and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) and that's what this game is all about (this game is all about) - -Robbie- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:03:14 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: cred [also, here's a question for the group: think of u2 and r.e.m., just to name two (although i think it would be hard to name 10). how did they manage to get so huge and still manage to maintain their credibility.] this is interesting.... the past few days i've been thinking alot about radiohead. so, what are their numbers? are they in danger of getting dropped if they make one false move? they're an interesting case because they also had a strong opening with "creep" and then sorta dropped off the radar as far as radio play, but they still seem to be doing ok. one reason might be their insane level of output. i swear, i CANNOT keep up with it. another is their rabid cult following; it's almost trekkie-like . they really seem to be into it for the music. wow, what a strategy. how novel. but as far as U2 and REM, they didn't break 'til their fourth albums, approximately. they each put out excellent stuff that whole time. then there was the whole "selling out" issue for them, too. U2's "zooropa," or however you spell it, was hard for many of their fans to deal with. heee, that's when ben stiller was making fun of bono. remember that? i just heard one of their new songs on the radio the other day. you know, after all this time, bono can STILL WRITE. i don't care if the sound is "synthy" or "dance-y" or whatever; he can still throw some lyrics together. as for REM, i even really liked "monster"; i know alot of people hate them for that record, but i like it. and another thing: you think bono et al. were ever expected to run around in their underwear? you can't ignore that whole thing.... seems to me, for the guys in the biz, if they want longevity, they have to be GOOD. that's pretty much their only recourse. the way i see it, a chick *has a choice* on exploiting her own body. sure, there's an expectation, but you don't have to say yes. then, sure, when people get disgusted, trot out the "empowerment" thing. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:34:28 -0700 (GMT) From: jzaphiri@ix.netcom.com Subject: KCRW Morning Becomes Eclectic set Coming out of a years-long lurker mode for an L.A. update. I just finished listening to Liz's short set on KCRW's Morning Becomes Eclectic. Liz brought a little band and played 2 4-song sets, with a short interview in the middle. First Set: 6'1" Johnny Feelgood Uncle Alvarez Little Digger Second Set: Why Can't I? Pretty Life (very good rendition, IMHO) Divorce Song (sanitized for radioland: "mess it up," rather than "fuck it up") Supernova (more self-editing "like a cherub's, like a cherub's..." and "_Hot_ like a volcano") In between sets, the host, Nic Harcourt, chatted with her briefly about the new songs, her new life, and of course the surprising new pop sound. Liz talked quite a lot about being a single mom, and alluded to her new work ethic because, as she put it "I have a dependent now." Nothing much else of interest, except that she gushed about her recent tour with Flaming Lips. Said she loved it, and had a lot of laughs. Although Nic subtly referenced the overtly pop nature of the new record, she didn't really address it during their conversation. It was the elephant in the room. Liz didn't want to explain it, and Nic was too kind a host to press her on it (plus I got the impression there were real some time constraints for the entire set). About all she said on the matter was "I just rolled with what was going on." That's it. No editorializing, just the facts as I heard 'em. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 12:36:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Pitchfork review [Pitchfork, for the uninitiated, is an absolutely brutal elitist online zine that brought us the exceptionally well-written article "Liz Phair Determined to Make Worst Album Ever" several months ago; the writing is always brainy, always masturbatory, and utterly unforgiving. I was hoping they'd let Will Bryant (longtime fan, used to be on the list? yes?) write the review, but instead it's his higher-up, Matt LeMay. I don't always agree with Pitchfork, but they sure do back up their opinions with sound evidence. I wish they would have done more skewering of the album, and I'm *not* even talking about that vindictive-ex-boyfriend thing -- this review seems a tad too superficial for them, but how much can you really say about an utterly superficial album, anyway? ---Emil] Liz Phair: Liz Phair The saddest possible conclusion to what began as one of the most promising careers of the 1990s: after a steady, decade-long decline in relevance, Liz Phair takes the final plunge, abandoning her fans and reputation for an all-or-nothing stab at temporary teen-pop fame. The result: one of the worst records ever made! [Capitol; 2003] Rating: 0.0 It could be said that Liz Phair's greatest asset has always been her inability to write a perfect pop song. On her 1993 debut, Exile in Guyville, Phair's gruff voice wrapped awkward un-hooks around flimsy, transparent chord progressions, resulting in (to everyone's surprise) a certifiable indie road-trip classic. It still stands as a powerfully confrontational album, skirting convention but also marked by Phair's striking awareness of her own limitations. Unfortunately, it seems that Phair has spent the better part of her post-Exile career trying to gloss over the very limitations that made her original statement so profound. Though her second album, Whip-Smart, had a few choice moments which recalled the insight and complexity of Exile, ultimately, it came across as a much more calculated affair. But things didn't start to go horribly awry until Phair's next record, Whitechocolatespaceegg. That album's attempts to commercialize her sound only dismantled the depth of her music, but not the awkwardness, resulting in an odd batch of songs that perhaps encapsulated Phair's faulty view of what constitutes a radio-friendly album. Ten years after Exile, Liz has finally managed to accomplish what seems to have been her goal ever since the possibility of commercial success first presented itself: to release an album that could have just as easily been made by anybody else. Even the songs on Liz Phair that could be considered "shocking" or "profound" are gratuitous and overdetermined, eschewing the stark and accusatory insights of Exile in favor of pointless f-bombs, manipulative ballads, and foul-mouthed shmeminism. Liz Phair has always been known for her vulgarity: on Exile and parts of Whip-Smart, she put that vulgarity to good use. "Fuck and Run", a standout from Exile, uses the word's negative connotations as a means of pointed self-deprecation-- she wants a boyfriend who "makes love," but all the ones she's ever had just "fuck." "Flower", Phair's most notorious track to date, reads like a laundry list of graphic sexual desires, but rather than paint a uniformly flattering portrait of her love interest, he's immature, he's obnoxious, and despite it all, she still wants to fuck his brains out-- a simple, necessarily crude semi-contradiction that speaks volumes. "Flower" would seem to have a descendent in "H.W.C." (short for, as I'm sure you've heard by now, "Hot White Cum"), in which Phair extols the virtue of semen as a beauty aid ("...Dear Cosmo: Splooge, the New Rouge!"). But, unlike the complex, alternatingly cocky and self-effacing sexuality of "Flower", "H.W.C."'s unqualified sperm-praise is entirely vain and degrading. Even more degrading is the constipated donkeyfuck harmonica solo towards the track's end, a hilarious sideshow that only magnifies the triteness of the song's...we'll say glycerin-slick production. Though "H.W.C." is without question the best water-cooler conversation piece on Liz Phair, "Rock Me" comes in a close second. Here, Phair sings exuberantly about the benefits of an affair with a younger guy including-- I shit you not-- "[playing] X-Box on [his] floor." In between choruses of "Baby baby baby if it's alright/ Want you to rock me all night," Phair declares, "I'm starting to think that young guys rule!" without a trace of self-doubt or reflection. It's hard to imagine that the Liz Phair of 10 years ago wouldn't have something profound and devastating to say about older women who shack up with clueless college kids, but on "Rock Me"-- as on the rest of Liz Phair-- vapid, clichi-filled rhyme couplets dominate. Take, for example, the album's first single, "Why Can't I", "co"written by Avril Lavigne songwriting team The Matrix. With a chorus of "Why can't I breathe/ Whenever I think about you?" and a cookie-cutter rock/pop background, the song could easily pass for Michelle Branch. The lyric "We haven't fucked yet/ But my head's still spinning" seemingly seeks to set Phair apart from the teen-pop crowd, but the use of the word is completely gratuitous-- change it to "kissed" and stick a 16-year-old girl in front of the mic, and no one could tell the difference. Only on "Little Digger" does Phair attempt to tackle subject matter unique to the circumstances of a 36-year-old single mother. The song has received positive press for addressing a difficult issue, as Phair sings to her son about his absent father and the new men she's dating. But the fact that anything positive could be said about this track speaks only to the overwhelming lack of substance on this record. From its cloying synth-string arrangements, to its ballad-in-a-box drumbeat, to its infuriatingly manipulative chorus of "my mother is mine," "Little Digger" offers up all the insight and emotion of a UPN sitcom. In recent interviews, Phair has been upfront about her hopes of mainstream success, and claims full awareness that Liz Phair is likely to alienate many of her original fans. What she doesn't seem to realize is that a collection of utterly generic rocked-out pop songs isn't likely to win her many new ones. It's sad that an artist as groundbreaking as Phair would willingly reduce herself to cheap publicity stunts and hyper-commercialized teen-pop. But then, this is "the album she has always wanted to make": one in which all of her quirks and limitations are absorbed into well-tested clichis. As such, Liz Phair proves so ultimately unnecessary, it might as well not even exist. - -Matt LeMay, June 25th, 2003 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:12:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: Internet EP songs OK, so I admit, I really do enjoy that sound better than her "Pop" sound. I'm in love with them. :) However, I do still like her new album and there are some awesome songs on it, but those EP songs make me realize how much I dug the intimate music that Liz is capable of creating. I really believe that all of those songs on the new album are Liz when it is all stripped down even WCI from what I heard over the live radio performance she did here in L.A. PLEASE RELEASE MORE TO US LIZ AND CAPITOL!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!! Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 13:14:06 -0700 From: Charles Pham Subject: RE: Internet EP songs hello all. i'm fairly new to this list. what is this internet EP everyone's talking about and where can one get a hold of it?? Thanks!! Charles - -----Original Message----- From: Al Madrid [mailto:almadrid_2000@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 1:13 PM To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: Internet EP songs OK, so I admit, I really do enjoy that sound better than her "Pop" sound. I'm in love with them. :) However, I do still like her new album and there are some awesome songs on it, but those EP songs make me realize how much I dug the intimate music that Liz is capable of creating. I really believe that all of those songs on the new album are Liz when it is all stripped down even WCI from what I heard over the live radio performance she did here in L.A. PLEASE RELEASE MORE TO US LIZ AND CAPITOL!!!!!!! PLEASE!!!!! Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #165 ************************************