From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #163 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, June 24 2003 Volume 06 : Number 163 Today's Subjects: ----------------- KCRW show ["Heather Larson" ] [none] ["Brooke, Robert" ] Bonaroo Setlist ["J. Alan Doak" ] Hi. My name is Tyler and I am a Liz Phair fan. [coatesjt@jmu.edu] Internet EP [Jase ] Re: Internet EP [Tyler Coates ] show me the.... ["dana p." ] Neumu review [Emil Breton ] Popmatters.com review (part one) [Emil Breton ] Popmatters.com review (part two) [Emil Breton ] Downloading from the CD [Al Madrid ] Re: Downloading from the CD ["trent \[Grr, Arg\]" ] internet ep [Dan MacDonald ] Re: Neumu review [robert joyner ] re: popmatters.com review ["Tom K." ] Re: internet ep [Emil Breton ] WCSE: a look back [Emil Breton ] liz at fark [robert joyner ] lizphair.com ["WaverRider" ] another liz interview [robert joyner ] liz in time [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] it's all good? ["dana p." ] msnbc piece [robert joyner ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 22:44:32 -0700 From: "Heather Larson" Subject: KCRW show Hey there, I'm not sure if this was posted or not - but KCRW usually offers live audio & video of their Morning Becomes Eclectic guests. Just go to their website to watch or listen to Liz's performance on Wednesday. She goes on @ 11:15. For more info: http://kcrw.com/show/mb Heather ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:30:46 -0500 From: "Brooke, Robert" Subject: [none] "Phair recorded and shelved three different albums in the past five years." Where the hell are they? I really hope that we all get to listen to some of that music. Rob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:55:40 -0700 (PDT) From: "J. Alan Doak" Subject: Bonaroo Setlist Here's the Bonaroo setlist if anyone is interested: Intro Glory Johnny Feelgood Divorce Song Rock Me Uncle Alvarez Supernova Stratford-On-Guy 6'1" Fuck and Run Extraordinary Perfect World That's all the info I have right now, but I may have a copy to share soon. j. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:34:47 -0400 From: coatesjt@jmu.edu Subject: Hi. My name is Tyler and I am a Liz Phair fan. I admit it. I like Liz Phair. I didn't even hear any of her music until I was a freshman in college, which was last year. My friend sent me an mp3 of "Perfect World" and I thought it was amazing. I looked her up on the internet and saw that VH1 had ranked Exile in Guyville as one of the 100 best albums of rock and roll. I rushed out and bought it. I loved it. I bought whitechocolatespaceegg and Whip-Smart. I loved them, too, although it took me several listens to really get into them and like them as much as I loved Exile. I was so shocked that most of the people I knew didn't know who Liz Phair was. I played them some of Exile, and they hated it. "She can't sing!" they'd say. I didn't know what they were thinking about, because I loved her voice the way it was. So I had to enjoy Liz by myself because none of my friends liked her. Then I realized there was this mailing list, and I was so excited that I would be able to communicate with so many other Liz Phair fans. This is around the same time I first heard of the new album. So I signed up for Support System and read what a lot of the hardcore fans thought about Liz: "Sell out." "Corporate whore." Again, I seemed like I was the only one who liked Liz again, even among the people who were interested in her enough to tell other people not to like her new album. I was really worried about the new album. I was expecting to hate it. I am what most of my friends call a music snob, and I was sure that I was about to turn against Liz, something I didn't want to happen. I read about how The Matrix produced some of her new songs. Avril Lavigne's name kept popping up. Talk about the worst possible thing ever...Liz Phair sounding like Avril? I was freaking out. I finally started to download some of the new songs and I ended up finding all of them except "Red Light Fever" and "Firewalker". I listened, and came to my conclusion: It's still Liz Phair. I love Liz Phair. I love her music. I like the new songs. I like the new album; it's grown on me like Whip-Smart and whitechocolatespaceegg did. I realized that there is never going to be another Exile in Guyville. I once read someone's post that said that if Liz still sounded like Exile, he wouldn't like Liz anymore because an artist should progress further. I agree. I don't expect Liz to stay the same, I WANT to see how she's changed. She's gone through a lot in the past ten years. I embrace this change because I like this new album. And it doesn't sound like Avril. And I'll admit it: when I first heard "Complicated" on the radio, I loved it. Then I saw the video and saw who Avril Lavigne was, and I didn't like her. It's still a good song, though. But I refuse to sheepishly say that I like Liz Phair anymore. Liz Phair is an amazing artist. As a Liz Phair fan, I don't expect anything from her...she doesn't owe me anything. It's the other way around. I'm HER fan. I owe her my appreciation for writing kick-ass music, whether it's on her new album or her older ones. I'm excited that I have her new album! I cannot wait to see her on tour! I'm excited about FINALLY hearing her on the radio! I LOVE LIZ PHAIR. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:52:38 -0400 From: Jase Subject: Internet EP I just downloaded the Internet-only EP and I'm curious ... does anyone know how to convert the .asf file to .wav files, so I can burn a CD for myself of these songs? I kind of wonder why they didn't just post MP3s for download ... are they afraid they'd end up on file-sharing services right away? I just wish they'd used a higher-quality format, since I noticed these were only encoded at 96 Kbps. Still, I shouldn't really complain -- it's not like they had to make these extra songs available in the first place. I was thrilled to see that "Bouncers' Conversation" is among the EP tracks, "Jeremy Engle" is a great song, and this version of "Hurricane Cindy" is much different than any of the others we've heard. "Shallow Opportunities" just started and seems pretty damn great as well. Any word on if Liz is still planning on doing that monthly-subscription service? I'd love to hear more of these outtakes. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:45:52 -0400 From: Tyler Coates Subject: Re: Internet EP I really liked the EP, too. What I did was download it and searched for the file on my computer and found it in the temp. internet files. I was just going to see if I could put the file on a blank CD, but I wish I could separate the songs into five different tracks...anyone know how to do that? - ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:52:38 -0400 >From: Jase >Subject: Internet EP >To: support-system@smoe.org > >I just downloaded the Internet-only EP and I'm curious ... does anyone know >how to convert the .asf file to .wav files, so I can burn a CD for myself >of these songs? > >I kind of wonder why they didn't just post MP3s for download ... are they >afraid they'd end up on file-sharing services right away? I just wish >they'd used a higher-quality format, since I noticed these were only >encoded at 96 Kbps. Still, I shouldn't really complain -- it's not like >they had to make these extra songs available in the first place. > >I was thrilled to see that "Bouncers' Conversation" is among the EP tracks, >"Jeremy Engle" is a great song, and this version of "Hurricane Cindy" is >much different than any of the others we've heard. > >"Shallow Opportunities" just started and seems pretty damn great as well. > >Any word on if Liz is still planning on doing that monthly- subscription >service? I'd love to hear more of these outtakes. > > >Jase ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 10:13:14 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: show me the.... [dana, I don't think we can put all the blame onSlater for being the pimp. The ho has to shouldersome of the blame too. She seems all too willing tobe turned out.] *** oh, i know, i know.... ugh. i know. i hate to admit it's true. this one woman on the velvet rope discussion said, "Maybe I'm a snob, but I'm a couple of other things as well. I'm someone who works in marketing/PR in an industry that is deeply in trouble. I have seen a ton of marketing data that clearly states the 35+ demographic is ready, willing and able to spend money on CD's but has nothing it particularly wants to purchase. Here is the perfect artist to market to that consumer. She wrote a breakthrough record 10 years ago about things that women her age could identify with...she puts you old geezers into a lather everytime she appears in her panties. And yet the fuckwits at the helm of this sinking ship want to make somebody's mom into a teen idol. I'm also a woman approximately Ms. Phair's age. Apparently being a sexual woman aging in a youth obsessed society, the trials of raising kids and being divorced and having to grow up aren't interesting enough for the lovely Liz. Once again women over 35 are given the finger by the entertainment industry. And yeah, I'm pissed at her for happily going along with it. Absolutely, Liz, the only way for a woman to remain vital after 35 is to jiggle her tits and pretend to be a teenager. Thanks for that affirmation. I hope she falls on her ass in a big way and I very rarely feel that way about any artist." so, there you go. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:06:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Neumu review For those who don't know, neumu.net is Michael Goldberg's new(ish) website. He ran Addicted to Noise, which became absorbed by SonicNet, which became absorbed by VH1.com and is now non-existent, for quite a few years in the 90s and that was the website that gave us an excellent 3-part interview with Liz in, like, 1997, I believe, that let us know exactly what the hell she was up to between '94 and '98. So this is his new website. He didn't write the review, but I imagine he would have quite similar things to say. I agree with every word, of course. ENJOY: Rating: 2/10 Dear Liz, I got a copy of your new album the other day. But it's weird: when I put it on, it didn't sound like you at all. It sounded like Michelle Branch or Avril Lavigne or one of those chick singer/songwriters who were all the rage last year. What's up with that? I was confused. I mean, the reason that you're one of my all-time favorite singer/songwriters is pretty simple  like, for example, Bob Dylan or Neil Young, you've always sounded like you. In the past decade or so, you've released four (and I'm counting Girlysound here) incredibly amazing albums, each one featuring well-crafted songs with smartly ramshackle arrangements full of wit, fun, life and, oh yeah, sex. It's a great trick, Liz, and there seemed to be no reason that you couldn't pull it off forever  certainly the songs are still there. "Big Tall Man" and "Uncle Alvarez" from whitechocolatespaceegg were every bit as great as "Divorce Song" or "Explain It to Me" from Exile in Guyville. Even better, the latter songs were character studies, meaning that you could write effectively about others as well. And if whitechocolatespaceegg was more produced than Whip-Smart which was more produced than Exile...  even through the Bonham drums and eerie synth of the opening title track  it was still pure you. So imagine my shock and surprise that a woman who charted her own waters through the seas of Alanis & Courtney & Gwen & Britney seems threatened enough to dump her longtime producer and use Avril Lavigne's production team. The Matrix, they call themselves. Ooooh, hip, so hip. Jeeze. You know, there's a reason these people named themselves after something false and evil. And that reason has splattered itself all over your record. Even the non-Matricized songs are full of useless keyboard riffs, tacked-on guitar solos and loads and loads of overdubbed Lizclone background singers. Never before has so much work been put into making somebody sound so ordinary. And goshdarnit Liz, don't you understand that what made you great was that you were unique? That no one else in the world sounded like you? And that you ignored Alanis and Courtney and Britney and continued to make your own records with your own sound and vision? So why try to make yourself sound like everybody else? Sure, you'd like to score a hit, and more power to you. But Avril Lavigne? Little miss punkface is a musical role model? Maybe it's just me, Liz, but in a way, I almost prefer the honest plasticness of the Britneys to the faux authenticity of the Avrils. For a 17-year-old girl, the ability to go into a studio and co-write hit songs with a bunch of studio hacks is liberating. For a woman twice that age who's already put out some timeless music, it's demeaning. On your previous records, the arrangements felt organic, like they sprang naturally from writing and recording the song. On this record, it sounds like you just plugged your lyrics into an already finished group of arrangements. Nothing feels natural or real or true or heartfelt. It's the aural equivalent of a boob job. With the exception of the first single "Why Can't I"  which sounds like it would have been Avril's next single had she asked first, all of the Matrix cuts are utter crap. But the nadir is an abomination called "Rock Me," where over guitars so generic they come with black type on a white label, you're asking "Baby" to "Rock me all night." Ew. This from the woman who sang "And the license said/ You had to stick around until I was dead/ But if you're tired of looking at my face I guess I already am." Remember the band X? Remember those first four albums: Los Angeles through More Fun in the New World? Each one a little slicker, but each one sounding wholly like X. Then they got, something, I dunno, indignant that they weren't bigger stars, and made an album that reflected the hard rock sounds of the day. It was really so bad that you couldn't even call it a sellout. They lost their old fans and didn't attract any new ones. What a disaster. I see a huge parallel here: you've always rightfully wanted to be bigger than you are, but people from Courtney Love to the White Stripes have found ways to make their music more accessible to the masses while still retaining what made them themselves in the first place. Oh, and Liz, this isn't about indie-rock dogma. That's been stupid for two decades. This isn't about going for a big audience or MTV or radio play. You deserve all of the success in the world. This is about the fact that your new record is just fucking boring. And you're way, way, WAY better than that. 'Cos my editor likes us to say nice things about the albums we write about (if there's something nice to say), I'll point out the two good songs: "It's Sweet," with the sitar-ish opening and irresistible chorus, and "H.W.C.," your happiest and funniest fucksong since "Fuck or Die." Needless to say, the Matrix people are nowhere to be found anywhere near these two songs. There may be others buried under the production dogpile, so I'm hoping that you or somebody who loves you leaks some demos or acoustic versions to Furthur or Kaazaa some time soon. Sigh. Now you're probably gonna hate me or something, but it's ironic that you've self-titled an album that completely buries your individuality. Perhaps you should have called it Inclusion in Mainstream. Peace Out, Jim by Jim Connelly __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:14:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Popmatters.com review (part one) Ah, more brutality! I'm loving it. This comes from popmatters.com; there's no official grading system, but the text speaks for itself. Here's part one (so it doesn't bounce): Lost in Guyville Back in 1993, Liz Phair's debut album Exile in Guyville shook indie rock music to the core. An instant classic, the album was an astonishing blend of slick guitar rock, artsy lo-fi, folk, and pop, fueled by Phair's assured, confident, daring, profane, and endlessly witty lyrics. Phair, who hailed from suburban Chicago, sang in a charmingly flat, cracking voice, about "standing 6'1" when I'm 5'2''", roommates who left "suspicious stains in the sink", shallow young men ("Soap Star Joe"), and horny young women ("Flower"). The album's title was a blend of The Rolling Stones' classic Exile on Main Street album, and the song "Goodbye to Guyville", by fellow Chicago rockers Urge Overkill, and it was the perfect title, as Phair, all 5'2" of her, broke loose from the "Guyville" of the Chicago rock scene, leaving all the hard rock dudes in her wake. Her claim that the record was a song-by-song response to Exile on Main Street, while not entirely true, was a self-promotional masterstroke, and as a result, the press started to take notice. Like an early '90s Patti Smith, Phair's candor and in-your-face stance was a breath of fresh air, as she won thousands of new fans, women and men alike. Now fast forward ahead ten years. Liz Phair now has a mere four albums under her belt, and today, this once-adored darling of indie rock is a mere shadow of her former self. She's left Chicago, gotten divorced, moved to Los Angeles, has taken singing lessons, and has employed some high-priced teen pop producers to help her sell albums. The resulting album, Liz Phair, is a highly overproduced, shallow, soulless, confused, pop-by-numbers disaster that betrays everything the woman stood for a decade ago, and most heinously, betrays all her original fans. In contrast to her of her infamous, audacious "flashing" cover photo for Exile in Guyvile, Phair's new album cover has her sitting, legs spread-eagled, a guitar placed suggestively between her legs, her hair stylishly tousled, looking like a cheesy Maxim photo shoot. It's an album by a woman who has completely lost touch with what made her music so great in the past; Ms. Phair has never been one to shy away from speaking her mind, and her new record is nothing more than a hearty "fuck you" to everyone who bought her first two albums, as she tries to become the next Avril Lavigne. Only, she fails at that, too, in spectacular fashion. How did it ever come to this? Well, although her career output has been less than prolific, her music has been taking a gradual downward turn since her debut. Phair's sophomore 1994 album, Whip-Smart, wasn't quite as consistent as Exile in Guyville was, but it still had plenty of Phair's songwriting smarts to save it. Produced by Brad Wood, who was also at the helm on her debut, Whip-Smart had a similar lo-fi feel as its predecessor, but with inventive pop touches throughout, on such songs as "Supernova", "Whip Smart", and "May Queen". After that, it was another four years until we heard from Liz again, and whitechocolatespaceeegg, her 1998 debut for Capitol Records, was a much more inconsistent album, and a commercial flop. With four producers, it was all over the map, as Phair sounded like she couldn't decide whether to go pop or stick to her indie roots. The best songs, like "Polyester Bride", "Johnny Feelgood", and "What Makes You Happy", all produced by Wood, mind you, hinted that Liz Phair was still capable of some magic, but it was obvious that magic was waning. Liz Phair, like that last album five years ago, boasts a bevy of producers, but this time we know what Liz wants: strong record sales. Wood's studio wizardry is sorely missed here, as the album's four producers, which include Phair herself, R. Walt Vincent, Michael Penn, and noted production team The Matrix, apply such a plastic sheen to the music, that any kind of artistic quality is buried deep beneath a thick veneer of artificial, pasted-together, Pro Tools production, and some obviously electronically enhanced vocals. The producers who have most Liz Phair fans screaming bloody murder are the infamous trio of pop svengalis who call themselves The Matrix. This team, consisting of Lauren Christy, Graham Edwards, and Scott Spock, gained notoriety after propelling the career of Canadian teen Avril Lavigne in 2002 by writing and producing her massive hits "Complicated" and "Sk8er Boi". They excel at writing and producing one-dimensional, cute, catchy, disposable teen pop music, but as we find out on Liz Phair, while they create some mighty slick kiddy music, they're not exactly Gerry Goffin and Carole King. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:16:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Popmatters.com review (part two) No matter how shallow their music may be, you can't deny that The Matrix know what they're doing, and the sickeningly effervescent "Extraordinary" possesses all the characteristics of the team's trademark sound, such as the usual grungy guitars, the bouncy melody, and plenty of layered, sugary vocals by Phair, which, despite sounding catchy as hell, are some of the most insipid lyrics she has ever sung ("I am extraordinary/If you'd ever get to know me/I am extraordinary/I am just your ordinary average everyday sane psycho supergoddess"). The other three tracks sound just as slick, but sputter: "Rock Me" is more of the same (complete with a ridiculously clunky "baby baby" chorus that would make Poison cringe), as Phair sings in that new little girl voice of hers, about bedding a younger man. Not so bad, but her songwriting has never been more unintentionally hilarious when she sings, "Your record collection don't exist/You don't even know who Liz Phair is" (when you take five years to put out a new record, chances are, most young people won't know you from a hole in the ground). Meanwhile, "Favorite" tries to be one of those trademark saucy Liz Phair songs ("You're like my favorite underwear/It just feels right/You know where"), but lacks any of the cheeky humor of her early songs. The biggest offender is "Why Can't I?", a note-for-note retread of Lavigne's "Complicated". Though The Matrix is an outfit with limited ideas, they do what they were hired to do on this album, producing idiotic, cookie-cutter pop, but it's something we'd rather hear a 17-year-old girl sing, instead of a 36-year-old woman. Surprisingly, it's not the Matrix-produced songs, but rather, nine others that make the album even more impossible to bear. "It's Sweet" has a spectacularly awful Bollywood sound, while "Take a Look" is a flaccid attempt to sound like the post-makeover version of Sheryl Crow. "Little Digger" tries to be sincere, as Phair sings about her son not liking the man who comes home with his mother, but it has a melody recycled from every other folk-lite singer/songwriter, and doesn't really have anything creative to say ("I've done the damage/The damage is done"). "Firewalker" sleepwalks, a drowsy, wavering ballad, and "Love/Hate" astonishingly resurrects the dated riffs of 80s hair metal. Meanwhile, "Bionic Eyes" is a failed attempt at a Clash-like sound, while "Friend of Mine" and the syrupy "Good Love Never Dies" sounds as cliched as the titles indicate. The worst offender, though, is the song that everyone will likely be talking about. "H.W.C.", which stands for "Hot White Cum", tries to continue where "Flower", "Fuck and Run", and "Chopsticks" left off, but instead of being a bold, clever statement by a liberal-minded woman, it's uncomfortably graphic, a pandering attempt to get Phair some notoriety, as she explicitly praises the skin-clearing qualities of her lover's . . . well, you know. It's even weirder how a song that could never get played on the radio would be on such an otherwise commercial-sounding album. With its bouncy, acoustic, sing-song melody, and such ludicrous lines as, "It's the fountain of youth, it's the meaning of life/So hot, so sweet, so whet my appetite," you'd think Phair is being sarcastic (if someone like Tenacious D sang this, it would get big laughs), but judging from accounts of her performance of the song at the recent South By Southwest Conference, she's absolutely serious, going as far as declaring it a statement of female empowerment of some sort, but you can't get people to take you seriously when you have semen in your hair. Still, there's one song on Liz Phair that manages to stand out above all the others. "Red Light Fever" is nothing but another empty pop song with a contagious melody, but if taken as a silly little nugget of radio schlock, and not the last desperate gasp of a soon-to-be-has-been artist, it does its job very well. Producer Michael Penn doesn't overload the five-minute ballad with bombastic guitars and overdone vocal histrionics; instead, the arrangement is much more simple, and Phair's singing sounds gentle and restrained. The lyrics are nothing to get excited about ("Lying wide awake in the dark/Trying to figure out where you are/Always going nowhere/Afraid of going somewhere"), but the gently sweeping chorus takes you away, taking your mind off the fact that the rest of this album is a festering heap of aural swill. That's all well and good, but then you wind up thinking, "Why isn't Mandy Moore singing this?" Ten years ago, both Liz Phair and PJ Harvey released albums at roughly the same time; both Exile in Guyville and Rid of Me were astonishingly powerful albums made by two audacious, seemingly like-minded women. Though her music has been toned down over the years, Ms. Harvey is still strong, her albums going in new directions without compromising her respectability, showing she's unafraid to sing about being happy without getting syrupy. Liz Phair, on the other hand, has grown increasingly more shallow as the years have gone by, and has reached a career nadir with a new album that practically begs to be noticed, simultaneously trying to be controversial and radio-friendly without knowing which to settle for, and ends up being a colossal, muddled disaster. This album just could be her commercial breakthrough (stranger things have happened), but it's at the cost of what's left of her integrity. Five years ago, Phair sang, "It's nice to be liked/But it's better by far to get paid." If her longtime fans stop caring after hearing this putrid crap, we'll see if that's what Liz still feels. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 11:49:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: Downloading from the CD Is anyone else having problems downloading the EP. When I click on the speed to start downloading, it takes me to a page that says "url cannot be found on this server". I take it it is a problem with them and not my system because I tried to different computers and the same thing happens. I'm on a Mac but that shouldn't matter. Anyone know what to do about it. I am irritated as hell!!!! By the way, here is the track list: 1. Jeremy Engle 2. Bouncer's Conversation 3. Fine Again 4. Hurricane Cindy 5. Shallow Opportunities 3 new one's and the other two I really, really like. I can't stand that I can't download them. Uggghhhh!!!! Please help, Al __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:09:09 -0700 (PDT) From: "trent \[Grr, Arg\]" Subject: Re: Downloading from the CD me too, my autographed cd came in the mail today and i tried to download the EP with the same error. weird that they would put cd artwork but not individual tracks for download. and boo! i can't even download the .asf :( - --- Al Madrid wrote: > Is anyone else having problems downloading the EP. ===== - --- remember, always be yourself. unless you suck. -- joss whedon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:20:09 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: internet ep okay so i just bought "the album" - i really dig the inlay - i think the drawings are cool. the internet EP though...oh wow....it's soo worth it. i wish to god this was an EP i could actually go out and buy...sooo worth it... i'm totally convinced though, the old liz is still alive and kicking, we just gotta search for her more now - these songs kick ass though. i love the new Hurricane Cindy - she actually somehow managed to make it better than ever. and "Fine Again" has the same kind of chord progession i fell in love with for "You Have No Idea" - i'm seriously speechlesss...i didn't expect it would be this good..i thought we'd be getting one new song and "Down" or something i already knew. I love "Bouncer's Conversation" even though i still cringe at the "faggit" part. it rocks. she seriously should do the "internet song-club" thing. totally cool. anyone who does not want to buy this album out of protest - yer missing out on 5 great, classic liz songs. My question though...i have windows media player....and the internet link gives us the inlay, cover - everything to print up...but i am wondering if there is an easy way to burn this ep onto CD...anyone know? if you do - - email me. dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:48:42 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: Re: Neumu review - --- Emil Breton wrote: > > his new website. He didn't write the review, but I > imagine he would have quite similar things to say. I > agree with every word, of course. ENJOY: > c'mon now emil, that can't possibly be true. this guy actually liked whitechocolatespaceegg. Just wondering if the worm ever turned for you with this album, because i remember going round and round with you about it at the time it was out. i still say you missed the boat on that one. later Robert ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Nashville - A Liz Phair Web Site http://www.geocities.com/robnashville - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:55:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Tom K." Subject: re: popmatters.com review Jeez. I have problems with the new CD but this reviewer is totally psycho. I almost expected him to end his rant with "Liz Phair delenda est!" This polemic is over-the-top hysterical. Did Liz run over his dog? Is she harboring weapons of mass destruction? __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:56:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Re: internet ep > anyone who does not want to buy this > album out of protest - > yer missing out on 5 great, classic liz songs. that's me! I just said I didn't want to buy a new copy. I'm barely able to wait for the internet EP, but I *will* wait. Used copies will start showing up, either at local record stores or on eBay. Just curious... are the lyrics to those new songs any more, I don't know, "sophisticated" than what's on the album? (please, please forgive me for asking.) I've heard "Conversation" and "Cindy" (what the hell is she doing re-working that song 8 years later? making it stupider?) Do the tracks sound less digitally-processed? what is the EP artwork like? and one more question about the actual album. I heard a nasty rumor (first reported in Rolling Stone, and then confirmed by a co-worker of mine -- who, incidentally, says the album is "horrible" and was planning on selling it to me until I told him about the internet EP, of which he was somehow still unaware) that Liz "doesn't play much guitar on her own album." Is this true? What do the credits say? Of the five songs I've heard, only one of them ("Rock Me") seems to be lacking a Phair Fender. What say you? I personally don't want to hear a song on which she herself doesn't play an instrument, unless it's "Soak Up the Sun". Emil __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:08:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: WCSE: a look back Joyner: > wondering > if the worm ever turned for you with this album, > because i remember going round and round with you > about it at the time it was out. i still say you > missed the boat on that one. I'm betting that Goldberg hates it. We should e-mail him. I lent WCSE to a friend for almost a year, and by the end of that year, I was *dying* hear stuff like "Love is Nothing" (which I know you hate), "Go On Ahead", even "Johnny Feelgood" again. I still prefer her more gonzo lyrical style ca. 1991-1995, but there's plenty of stuff to like about that album -- which, as a friend said to me off-list, "sounds like friggin' Rubber Soul" compared to the new album. Perspective, baby! WCSE's biggest problem is in its mixing. Thom Lord-Alge apparently never understood that oh-so-elementary rule-of-thumb about applying certain effects to certain tracks only. Otherwise, you get a completely obnoxious, washed-out sound that buries the individuality of each track (and by 'track' I mean, of course, the drum track[s], the vocal track[s], the guitar track[s], etc.). WCSE is awash in delay and chorus and reverb, and Liz just DROWNS in the mix. Oh, watch her drown! It was sad then, and it's still sad now. Of course, that's just my personal taste, and I won't hate anyone for disagreeing. But seriously, it is a very obnoxious mix. Even "Why Can't I" sounds better. "Complicated" by Avril Lavigne makes more sense to me in terms of mixing style than WCSE. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 13:33:48 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: liz at fark yeah, liz thread on fark.com lot's of i'd hit it comments http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.pl?IDLink=569527&ok=true ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Nashville - A Liz Phair Web Site http://www.geocities.com/robnashville - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:18:30 -0400 From: "WaverRider" Subject: lizphair.com I can't seem to play any of the videos on the new site. Does anyone have these videos available for download or can someone tell me how i can download them myself? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:27:54 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: another liz interview jim derogatis interviews liz for playboy.com.....diff interview than the sun times one. http://www.playboy.com/features/dotcomversation/phair/02.html ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Nashville - A Liz Phair Web Site http://www.geocities.com/robnashville - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 18:50:29 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: liz in time Hey - Liz is in Time, the June 30 copy, on page 58. Almost full page article, talks about us! (well, sort of), and a nice picture. Liz says "It's the fourth record. There will be a sixth and an eighth." There will??? Woo Hoo! That's good news.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:03:03 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: it's all good? [Anyone else find it ironic that while she is dissing all of us, we are all going out of our way to promote and cause controversy over the new album? Hardly any review leaves out the obligatory "fans are in an uproar" comment. Do you think she's doing this on purpose?] *** yeah, dude.... it was in that GQ article (right?) i think it was at the end; she was saying something about how she'd much rather have people dissing it and all up in arms because then at least people are talking about it. a bastardized "madonna" strategy that i think she's thoroughly misinterpreted. 'cause i think she's taking a "hard copy" approach. yuk. *** and, thanx to you, robert, for articulating the absurdity of this whole "marketing ploy" or whatever this is.... i totally agree. i actually kinda wonder if she cringed inside knowing this whole sad scenario would be documented for the rest of us to laugh about and be digusted by. and can i just say, for the record, as a woman, how fucking ANNOYING i find it when media women hide behind some kind of weird postfeminist "empowerment" chant every time they appear in public nearly naked--for the money, to take their career to the next level. give me a small break, wouldja? just be honest, huh? who do you think you're kidding? we don't live on "the ricki lake show," thank god. i was around when gloria steinem was making the rounds on college campuses and starting "ms"; for many reasons (all legal--like equal pay and stuff like that) feminism is great, but at this point we're WAY past all that stuff. and in terms of gender politics in the trenches, when you've got fred durst saying "i was raised to love janeane garafalo" maybe it's time to rethink the strategy, hmmm? little girls/young women have been figuring it out for themselves for eons. i mean, *SHUT UP*.... i like EIG/WS because i can *relate*, not because i need someone to lead me. i truly love that she said, "i can't write like that anymore." see, *that* i understand. i get that; it makes sense to me. but when it's so achingly obvious that you're (here comes another visual) tweaking your nipples before you head out the door to face your public, well..... whatever, chick. maybe it's just so much nipple tweaking--and that's it, that's all it is. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 16:06:18 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: msnbc piece http://www.msnbc.com/news/930580.asp?0cv=LB10 Jewel, Liz Phair both in high stakes makeover game As former cult artists grasp for broader market appeal, does fan backlash matter? By Marc Weisblott SPECIAL TO MSNBC.COM June 24  Olivia Newton-John might have been magically transformed from dowdy prude to lascivious vixen at the conclusion of Grease  except that when she tried to stretch that skintight black leather into her own career, few were tricked into thinking she rocked any harder. Twenty-five years later, both Jewel and Liz Phair are attempting to extend their careers into a second decade with unabashed makeovers playing to the broadest common denominator. (clip) NUDITY AND PROVOCATION Forget then about trying to decode Jewels revealing outfits or the mixed messages of any forthcoming endorsement deals. Youll know that she is desperate to be taken sentimentally again when she changes her hair color. Back in April, unthinkable as such a thing might once have been been, Playboys Web site ran a poll to determine The Sexiest Babe in Indie Rock. Deserving winner was Neko Case of the New Pornographers, although its a woman whose music Playboys readership would never tolerate, Carnie Wilson, who actually gets the pictorial treatment in their August issue. Liz Phair, however  not included in the survey, because her indie days ended by 1994  will gladly get nude for you. The front of Phairs self-titled fourth album features her torso framed by a guitar thats seemingly intercepting her attempt at a newfangled yoga pose. Its a throwback to 1993s Exile on Guyville, the rough-hewn debut album whose jacket photo featured a blurry shot that revealed about one-sixteenth of Phairs bare left nipple. Swaddling herself in explicit lyrics  and, even more provocatively, explicit ideas  about post-feminism endeared Phair to the most snobbish of listeners. (Her salacious thoughts were coherently rendered in a sparse rock n roll context that accentuated her wafer-thin singing voice.) Subsequent big-deal efforts, in 1994 and 1998, were met with a collective shrug. While it was the sort of tenuously alternative music that a teen queen like Debbie Gibson should have graduated into, for a one-time critical darling like Phair, it was assumed her renegade streak got lost in a pile of contracts. SYMPATHY FOR BEING TRASHED? Consider how the Go-Gos and the Bangles  female groups whose breakthroughs were just as genuinely fortuitous  slammed into the nostalgia wall by their mid-30s, despite any and all efforts to impress with new material. Yet, after going through the marriage and divorce cycle, then contributing backup vocals to Sheryl Crows insta-jingle Soak up the Sun, Phair  or at least those calling the shots at her record company  were bitten by the bug to actually pursue popularity. The tier of mediocre-selling-but-critically-acclaimed major label prestige acts hardly exists any longer, anyhow. Recruited for the task were The Matrix, the songwriting and production trio that shaped Avril Lavignes signature ditties. Liz Phairs first single, Why Cant I? packs a now-familiar, self-deprecating coquetishness and, for old times sake, the F-word. The difference is, shes twice Avrils age; although the outrage leveled at 36-year-old Phairs re-think by die-hards who remember her when is tantamount to feeling betrayed by Gloria Steinem getting hitched for the first time at age 66. Its difficult to imagine Liz Phair getting any buyers simply out of sympathy for her being trashed (coming across a disenchanted review of her mainstream gambit). Consider how the Go-Gos and the Bangles  female groups whose breakthroughs were just as genuinely fortuitous  slammed into the nostalgia wall by their mid-30s, despite any and all efforts to impress with new material. In selling Phair as a brand new artist to those SUV drivers whose waning devotion to the lacquered likes of Celine, Shania and Mariah has left them hankering for something more real, perhaps Capitol Records is just trying too hard to tap into the unspoken neuroses of soccer moms across America. Norah Jones, by comparison, seems to be having way more fun wringing her melancholia. But for Phair, as with Jewel, it becomes a cat-and-mouse game with the media and with audiences who imagine themselves on the smarter side of the fence (thanks in part to the sage teachings of Simon Cowell). This extreme makeover  does she really mean it? Yes, but does she really mean that she really means it? Is she truly sincere about being so insincere? You sure? And so on and so forth. ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Nashville - A Liz Phair Web Site http://www.geocities.com/robnashville - ------------------------------------------------------------ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #163 ************************************