From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #133 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, May 28 2003 Volume 06 : Number 133 Today's Subjects: ----------------- EW Article ["Mark J. Foxx" ] recent Liz remarks ["Chris DeLisle" ] more ramblings ["Chris DeLisle" ] liz in venus, believer [Steve Rhodes ] TRL [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] guitar? [sarahmay14 ] Re: TRL [Brett Jones ] ew article [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] Liz on preview guide: [SHERLY McLACHLAN ] back on da list!!! [Dan MacDonald ] subtle profanity? ["sandra" ] Field Day festival cancelled? [Jase ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 03:27:35 -0500 From: "Mark J. Foxx" Subject: EW Article Am I the only one who really liked the Entertainment Weekly article? I just now read it, and I think it's probably the clearest interview she's given thus far on the subject of "selling out" or whatever (even if she doesn't have anything as wonderfully witty and quotable to say as "[giggles] I'm trying to become like a washed up, diluted version of my own self and rake it in.") I just understand her side a little more now; and even if I don't really like her side, I can't really disagree with her for doing all this. Sidenote-- But it sort of annoys me when people attack indie...especially Liz...just because...I don't know...shoot me for enjoying hearing actual instruments rather than just a huge mass of production. It's not about being elitist; it's just about...wanting to hear actual songs. (this is the part where my little sidenote turned into a rant)--- But...whatever. Production's not all bad. I mean...there is some really fucking amazing hip hop out there. But Liz Phair is not hip hop. She's not exactly reinventing the game in terms of production. Liz Phair, at the core, is a songwriter. And you can have overproduced songs but still have good songwriting underneath it all; but, as exemplified by Liz's new album...if someone has that mass of production backing them, the artist often seems to recognize that there isn't as much need for the strong songwriting. What bothers me most about the new Liz album is not solely the production, which is really just more of a slight annoyance; it's that for the first time ever, really, Liz fails as a songwriter. And not once, but consistantly throughout the album. "Extraordinary", "Red Light Fever", "Why Can't I", "Rock Me", "Take a Look", "Little Digger", and "Love/Hate Transmission" all feature at one point or another some very shady songwriting...and that's weird that there because never before had I really even questioned Liz's skill as a songwriter. If I have problems with, say, "Firewalker", it's because the production doesn't play to the strengths of the songs as a whole; but with a song like "Red Light Fever", the problem lies lyrically...and that's what upsets me about the album. I'm not elitist. Hell, I liked Madonna's last album. If I can't fully embrace Liz's new album, it's not because I can't get past the fact that it's got the same production as Avril. It's because "Extraordinary" has a really weak and completely unnecessary bridge; it's because "Red Light Fever" features lines like "always going nowhere / 'fraid of going somewhere / and somewhere's a place in your heart"; it's because "Take a Look" does not have a chorus but it tries anyway; it's because "Little Digger" feels more exploitative than heart-felt; and it's because I listen to "Love/Hate Transmission" and it sounds like she's making the lyrics up as she goes along. I'm not the biggest fan of the production, but that's not why I have problems with the album. ... (hates) I think I take it too seriously. I'm not sure what my point was except to attack the album. Really, I'm not really meaning to attack Liz's skills as a songwriter...because, I mean, she has more talent in her (insert body part here) than I could ever hope for. I just feel like the direction she's going in...with all this production...is hindering those skills. And if the problem is not that she's gotten lazy as a songwriter but that she's just...not as good anymore...than my apologies to Liz for the viciousness. But, yeah, I liked the interview. I understand her point of view; and I'm all for the production if that's what it's going to take for her to get what she wants...which is totally just what almost everyone in her place would want. I just wish she hadn't compromised the songwriting in the process...because, I mean...she's, in this halfway-music-literate 17-year-old's opinion, the best songwriter ever. Whatever. God, I'm long-winded. If you're still reading: e-mail me, and I'll send you massive amounts of money. :) - -Mark _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 09:34:41 -0400 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: recent Liz remarks some random thoughts regarding recent remarks made by Liz in the press: how very bizarre. i've never heard of any recording artists trying desperately to run away from their fans...i mean, outside of that Beatlemania-running-for-your-life-hair-and-clothes thing. the remarks have me feeling somewhere between the following two scenarios: 1) that famous footage of the Sex Pistols on tour in America when Johnny Rotten is sitting down in front of the drummer and saying to the crowd, "how does it feel to be cheated?" 2) William Shatner on "Saturday Night Live" berating the Trekkies at the Star Wars Convention to "get a life! i mean, it was only a show for God's sakes!" (i feel so "Jon Lovitz" right now...) - -- Liz gives new meaning to the idea of an "Artful Dodger." - -- i'm still going to wait this thing out to see how it all shakes out. - -- it kind of feels like when someone you love tells you that they can't go out with you because they need someone "more stable" because the two of you are "too combustible" (ie. her relationship with her "creepy" old fans) ~ and then they turn around and marry someone you find extremely lame (ie. "the Avrilian masses"). has that ever happened to anybody else out there? (crickets chirping?) chris deLisle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:22:39 -0400 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: more ramblings back on the subject of Liz's recent remarks: i can understand her wanting to defend her album against any attackers (ie. some, or plenty, of us as well as all those critics that lauded her as "the next big thing" or "the new IT girl" or praised EXILE to the gills). i mean, after all, she is a mother and artist and her album and songs are like her children. i can also understand her wanting to make some cash. the more i read about King Crimson or other "fringe" artists...as well as plenty of those who actually "make it"...from what i understand, most recording artists don't seem to make much money at all. more than you and i, of course, but not that much. you have to sell "X" amount of millions to begin making some real money, i guess. but some of the things she's said is sure to turn off plenty of us. i mean, i don't remember exactly what she said, but her "hatred" of the indie scene and dropping a bomb like EXILE into the scene... ...it made me think...well what if Paul McCartney said, "i can't believe millions of people fell for all that 'peace, love, and understanding' all-you-need-is-love crap." or Tom Waits started laughing at everyone who's ever listened to his mid-late period wondering who would ever listen to someone with THAT gravelly of a voice. i wonder if Liz thinks she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:22:22 -0800 From: Steve Rhodes Subject: liz in venus, believer liz will be interviewed in the third june issue of the believer (the second issue is out now). http://www.believermag.com it will cover how to spot good songs, avoid black eyes, and perfect the art of the grift. and: Hi everybody, I'm writing to let ya know that the new summer issue of Venus is hitting newsstands in early June, and we've got copies available for pre-order on our site, www.venuszine.com. I don't know if you're into Liz Phair but she's on the cover and she's got a lot of interesting stuff to say about why it's taken her five years to release a new album (it comes out in late June), why it's a "bitch" to be an adult, and her thoughts on Chicago's, um, sometimes snobby indie music scene. Other features in the summer issue of Venus include the Gossip (have you heard their new album!?), All Girl Summer Fun Band, Yo La Tengo, Nina Nastasia, Trachtenberg Family Slideshow Players, Glass Candy and the Shattered Theatre, Goldfrapp, Miz-Korona (of "8 Mile"), skateboarder Peggy Oki, "Desperately Seeking Susan" director Susan Seidelman, and many others. Thanks! Amy Schroeder Venus lady Venuszine.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:25:23 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: TRL Anyone think that Liz will ever be on TRL? maybe on the album release date? Imagine that... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 13:57:49 -0700 (PDT) From: sarahmay14 Subject: guitar? who is playing the guitar on the new record? does Liz now solo? I'm given the new album my first run through and it's pretty much non-stop power chords IMHO with just a couple diversions, very atypical of her style. Has anyone tabbed this out yet? her voice really does sound great, but I always loved her monotone off-key voice. Rufus Wainwright has the same uniqueness to his voice - you either love it or hate it. I'm kinda shell-shocked at the moment by this aggressive new 'pre-digested' style. someone *please* get ahold of the demos!! *sigh* __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 17:49:07 -0400 From: Brett Jones Subject: Re: TRL That of course will be the day the rotation of the Earth reverses. LilRussianGirl@aol.com wrote: > Anyone think that Liz will ever be on TRL? maybe on the album release date? > Imagine that... - -- Brett Jones brett@5foot2.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:07:04 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: ew article wait.. the matrix person says that she had a "beautiful record" and then went to them for help.... where is this "beautiful record" at? that is - is there a record floating around out there like the wcse sessions or 96 shelved demos? or by record is the matrix person just referring to one song? anyone know? how do we get our hands on this beautiful record if it is different than the new one that we've heard? i assume that it is probably just as produced, but I'd like to hear it just the same. Any word on what the Internet only stuff will be like? Or when the tour will be announced? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:44:02 -0700 (PDT) From: SHERLY McLACHLAN Subject: Liz on preview guide: Hey to All, I was watching the preview channel this past Saturday morning. They had a little diddy about Liz. Talked about the release of her long awaited new cd in June and said that she was currently doing some shows on the east coast w/ The Flaming Lips and that after that she was going to start touring in Canada. How true this is I don't know but it was kind of neat to see her featured on the preview channel. Why Can't I is getting alot of airplay here in Chicago, I'm wondering when the video will be coming out. Do they usually do that after the album has been released? I also I'm waiting to here about tour dates. If anyone has info pass it on please!! Have a good one! Lor The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 19:06:39 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: back on da list!!! howdy - i'm back on the list (formerly the danmac@mnsi.net guy) - anyway - - i totally missed this list with a passion - but first and foremost - i was in the process of being in a cd tree for the new album before i moved and changed email addresses. your name is kate - i was in the tree - please drop me an email - and i'll get right to burning CDs for anyone i have to. sorry about the horrific delay, moving can do that though ;) as for the new album...i have no clue how many people on the list have heard it now - and what the consensus is, but i'm completely torn. i listened to it with a completely opened mind and i knew it would be poppy - but i don't know..i wasn't prepared for a few of the "gems" that would be on the album. a quick, mini-song-by-song review is in order (come on! indulge me!)... before i start - i think the first three songs are weak. i don't think they are terrible, but for the most part - lower than liz's usual calibre. 1 extraordinary - okay...i like it. great opener. hated it at first, i like it now. 2 red light fever - hated it at first - i love it now. i think the lyrics are awesome and sweet and it's the kinda song that makes me feel like "awww...she's talking directly to me". 3 why can't i? - okay - i'm sorry. i fucking hate this song. i think it's stupid "we're already wet and we're gonna go swimming" - i cringe whenever i hear that..and the stupid little vocal-play thing they do with the "whenever i think about you...whenever i think about you...whenever i think about you.." at the end is annoying as shit. it reminds me too much of avril lavigne, and i wasn't even expecting an avril comparrison. like i said - i'd be happy if the first three tracks just didn't exist. 4 it's sweet - it reminds me of a sweet lizphair alarm clock ringing - saying "WAKE UP! NOW THE GOOD SONGS START!!!" - by far one of my favorite tracks on the album. i think it's psychedelic, hilarious, typical liz phair - but evolved musically, dancey, smart - just soo cool. the only problem is that it's much much much too short. 5 rock me - awesome - i also think it fits a theme of the album - which is liz trying to be a little bit younger, or recapture her youth. this is kind of the epitomy of that theme, in my opinion. the theme comes though on "why can't i?" with that innocent, young-naive love feeling, "it's sweet" - i picture her talking to a young guy "it's sweet how YOU believe you're in love with me..." - when meanwhile it's just puppy dog love... this song is the theme, and then there are the other youth-related themes like HOT WHITE CUM, Little Digger....i dunno...she wanted a younger sound, to capture a mainstream (and younger) audience, she worked with a younger crew...i think this album should have been marketed as a theme album - like "VIVA! LA COUGAR!" or something. i sincerely think that would rock. and i'm for real not being like, bitchy about that. 6 - Take A Look - surprisingly, one of my favorites on the album. i've always liked this song. totally cool. definetely directed to her fans - possibly a few people on this list. 7 - Little Digger - very sad stuff...would have liked it better if it was a song that ended up on jase's phairities compilation as a rare-live-gem that has never been recorded. kinda like a "beginning to see the light" or a "don't apologize". i really like it - she's kinda wearing it on jer sleeve for this one. 8 Firewalker - AWESOME!!! always liked the live version - it really goes to show what a TIGHT live band she had back in the day. the song sounds IDENTICAL to how it did live, even though it's a studio version. or was this one of those demos? 9 - Favorite. - ironically - my LEAST favorite. i have two pet peaves when an artist makes an album. two "no-no's" if you will. one of them is to self-titled your album. the other is to write a song about underwear. 10 - Love/Hate Transmission - awesome. i think this album would have been a MUCH MUCH MUCH more beautiful thing if this were the LAST song. Liz chanting "nothing's gonna change...." with the chaotic noise that echoes the hurricane of sound we heard at the closing of Exile in Guyville with Strange Loop - i just think that would have been a beautiful moment. 11 - H.W.C. - smart-pop. x-rated polyester bride. fuck and run with a nose-job. all this, and hand-claps too. i love it. 12 - Bionic Eyes - Cool as shit. again - the whole theme of "how do people see me" that she touches down on in songs like Extraordinary, Take a Look and red Light Fever - and the motiff of getting older/younger new guys/old guys thing. 13 - Friend of Mine - very cool. for sure a favorite - and i like the "country-tinged-ending". 14 - Good Love Never Dies - i still think Firewalker or Love/Hate would have made for better closers, but i think this one is pretty good too. i can picture credits rolling up a screen...reminds me of shitloads of money. same type of feeling. and i wonder if the "I like watching you out there - it's comforting" was a candid moment...was she talking to her son out there? or a love interest? hopefully it wasn't avril. but i think there is a constant motiff of how she sees her self, how she thinks she is percieved, and a battle between youth and age. young love and old live - little kid love and big kid love. for the most part, i like it - but after listening to it about three thousand times - i can honestly say it is (so far...) my least favorite liz album. phew...i've been waiting weeks to type that....it's nice to be back... dan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 22:59:51 -0500 From: "sandra" Subject: subtle profanity? So for those who can hear this on the airwaves on a regular basis ... how is the radio handling the "we haven't fucked yet" line in "Why Can't I?" BTW that "entertainment weekly" interview kinda made me feel ... hmmm, better, i guess about this whole liz album thing. not that i needed it -- but better is still how i feel. sandra ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 00:32:39 -0400 From: Jase Subject: Field Day festival cancelled? For anyone who was planning on attending the Field Day festival to see Liz play, you might want to check out this article from newsday.com. The concert permit was denied, so it looks like the festival might be cancelled now. http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-lifielddaysuit0527,0,7953248.story?coll=ny%2Dtop%2Dspan%2Dheadlines ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #133 ************************************