From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #124 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, May 19 2003 Volume 06 : Number 124 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: support-system-digest V6 #123 [AMDAmore@aol.com] re: OUCH ["Chris DeLisle" ] should i stay or should i go? ["dana p." ] More Than Ouch [Kate Stewart ] re: OUCH again ["Chris DeLisle" ] Re: More Than Ouch [Andrea Uptmor ] Liz Phair/Flaming Lips Tour Question [Erin ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 08:45:51 EDT From: AMDAmore@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #123 As much as I've defended Liz and the new album, this statement really pissed me off: Q: Are you worried about alienating some of your prior indie-ish fan base? Because even without hearing the album yet, the people on your fan sites seem to feel betrayed. A: It's appropriate that they feel that way. Because what I'm doing is leaving them to go seek other people. Well the best thing to do then would be to ditch this digest and "seek other people" ourselves. Maybe make this an Aimee Mann list? An exemplary songwriter who's never "ditched" her fans? alice ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 11:19:28 -0400 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: re: OUCH yeah, i was wondering myself about her comments. a number of thoughts: one of the things i think her comments confirms is that she really doesn't fully understand who her audience is and has never really known who we were. i remember...i think it was Dan's story...that when she came to Detroit back in 1994 that there was some jerk either asking her to show us her, well, you know...or otherwise making rude or vulgar remarks...and it's got to be a little off-putting. i mean, here she is HATING to go on stage and you've got someone who you think is probably interested in your music, somewhat, coming to your show...and this is the kind of response you get. i wonder what kind of fans she has met through the years that give her the impression that she's been given. i mean, i know a number of the fans have been some of the more vocal and omnipresent fans on this here list. so it can't be you guys, because everything has been heartfelt and well-intentioned. is it the press she's received? is it the fact that all those early articles centered around the raunch and controversy of "Fuck And Run" and "Flower?" i get the feeling that Liz does read her press and she has her ears open to a whole lot of mouths. it's got to be a little confusing to have received so many different opinions. her songs were kind of a social/sexual experiment to begin with. maybe these are just the results of the experiment. Liz is smart, but i think she's over-thought this whole thing. i think that what she needs is a summit meeting with about a dozen fans here or something, to get an idea who her audience really is. she reminds me of someone who doesn't know how or why she's beautiful (or even that she actually IS), only that some people want something from her. on the flip side, maybe we shouldn't give a shit. i mean, don't we care about this whole thing a little too much sometimes? :) chris deLisle (unsure if i just rambled the whole time) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 08:36:14 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: should i stay or should i go? > As much as I've defended Liz and the new album, this statement really pissed > > me off:> > > Q: Are you worried about alienating some of your prior indie-ish fan base? > Because even without hearing the album yet, the people on your fan sites > seem to feel betrayed.> > A: It's appropriate that they feel that way. Because what I'm doing is > leaving them to go seek other people.*** it doesn't bug me that she's so blunt; i think in this case she's just plain wrong. 'cause when you take 4+ years between albums, people are gonna DUMP YOU to "seek other people." (plus, as mentioned many, many times, it was clear where this was all going with WCSE.) that's what's goin' on, sweetness. *** here's the line i've been waiting to hear in so many words so we can all put this thing to rest once and for all: "I'm trying to become, like, a washed up, diluted version of my own self and rake it in." tah dah. there you have it. see, she's kidding, but she's NOT. *** here's another howler: "The Matrix are great, and they're smart, and they're talented. A lot of what people don't like about Avril is Avril -- the falseness of how she was marketed...." i think someone else already pointed out how stupid this is, but i'll include it again here. i'm not sure she should be pointing fingers regarding the "falseness" of how someone's being marketed. and that is all i will say about that. *** and this one just made me sad, because i think she's really wrong about this, if indeed she actually means this: "Because I felt like no one got the humor. No one credited me with being able to make art; they thought it was just confessional and I was just an idiot naturally spewing out what I thought. And no one got that. I said things a certain way for a certain reason. In the beginning, it was all about saying really shocking stuff in this really tiny nonthreatening voice." and it doesn't make any sense in lieu of this earlier response: "Because my music seems to them like my real feelings coming out. Even when I try to be commercial it's still my real feelings and my real point of view, and they can tell. A lot of people will hold back from exposing themselves. I'm all the way in the front of my own music. So it allows them to sort of feel like they know me. And they probably do." so, do we get it or not? i guess it doesn't matter anymore. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:19:46 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Stewart Subject: More Than Ouch My jaw dropped open when I read that quote- if there was ever a sign that it's time to move on and find a new favorite musician, this is it. If she doesn't respect us, why the hell should I respect and support her? Goodbye to Liz-ville. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 13:21:42 -0400 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: re: OUCH again i haven't seen if anyone's responded to my previous message, yet, i've got another question: why would Liz say what she said in the article...and also correspond with Ken? and also receive questions from us? just what about her previous fans does she want to get away from? c.d. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 16:56:34 -0500 From: Andrea Uptmor Subject: Re: More Than Ouch I interpreted the infamous quote as saying, "I've got a new sound. if you don't like what I've become, then listen to something else." I think that's completely reasonable. She's not making the music for you, however much you'd like to believe that. She's just being matter-of-fact. When it comes down to it, an artist is always making work for herself first, whether it be in terms of personal satisfaction or monetary reasons. Pish-posh. It's a business, kids. I'm guessing that there are worse things that have happened in this world, so let's buck up little campers, and listen to whatever the hell we want. Music is music is music, and if your judgements lead you to believe that Liz Phair makes shitty music, then make something better. I'd love to hear it. Andrea U. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 16:22:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Erin Subject: Liz Phair/Flaming Lips Tour Question On the Flaming Lips website it says that Liz will be touring with them until June 3. But at LizPhair.com (her official site) it lists tour days up until June 13. Just wondering if anyone knows for sure if she is playing those last dates. I already bought my ticket for the Flaming Lips on June 10 (Dallas, whooohoo!) but it jsut won't be the same if Liz doesn't play. Even though I get to see her in Austin in September. - -Erin The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #124 ************************************