From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #109 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, May 3 2003 Volume 06 : Number 109 Today's Subjects: ----------------- strange how the ears ring [Stephen Griffes ] frankly, mr. shankly.... ["dana p." ] Re: Bars of the Bed Lyrics Anyone? [Meredith Robbins ] Fwd: Meet the Evil Empire, same as the old boss [TitleTK@aol.com] Dorian Gray [mollieclarins@att.net] More Dorian Gray [mollieclarins@att.net] oh, F(u)CC ["dana p." ] Pitchfork blurb [Emil Breton ] cool covers ["Chris DeLisle" ] Re: Pitchfork blurb [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] RE: Pitchfork blurb [Charles Pham ] liz opening for flaming lips [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] Re: cool covers [TitleTK@aol.com] NOT LIZ RELATED [SHERLY McLACHLAN ] sealed supernova single auction [ReallyHip@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 01:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Griffes Subject: strange how the ears ring hey, I skip Uncle Alvarez often too. i enjoy parts of the song, but i think hohohos belong in christmas music. i dunno...as much as i understand why everyone is upset that those new liz songs sound so different than her other stuff...i cant get myself worked up over it. partly because i actually like the matrix songs and like with most of liz's songs, i can (surprisingly) relate to them. i wasn't expecting that, but even tho they're fun summery pop songs, they still hit hard at a time in my life where im being a dolt--and that always happens when i get a new liz album. but also, there is so much freaking awesome rocknroll being put out right now that i can't get myself in a tiz over liz going uberpop. the new throwing muses album is phenomenal--and word is ms hersh is starting a new rock band! rainer maria's "long knives drawn" is amazing (and i've always hated them!). the yeah yeah yeahs, the kills, and saturday looks good to me have also recently put out brilliant records. oh, and if you've never heard Mirah before, check her out. i think most EIG-admirers would enjoy. frat boys who sleep together party better, steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 00:10:44 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: frankly, mr. shankly.... - ------[if innovative, exciting music came out, and the Clear Channels poured it onto the airwaves the way they currently force the dreck down their listeners' throats, then people would embrace it. Thinking about that, it occurs to me that the last time this happened was 39 years and 2 months ago. Ever since the Beatles/Stones explosion, virtually all the really groundbreaking artists have risen to prominence thru word of mouth or college stations, and were only played on big commercial stations after non-commercial buzz pushed them to the fore.]--------see, exactly. and this was not too long after the big payola scandal. well, the first one. payola and clear channel are separate but overlapping problems. i'm thinking that maybe actual radio play doesn't even matter anymore; it's maybe more a matter of having your name bandied about by those in the biz: "oh, her? yeah, well, she worked with so-and-so and so it's probably a good idea to play this now.... there's lots of buzz; she's HOT!" like, i'm thinking that at this point it's just so abstract and removed from content...and about what's "exciting" for all the dweeby talentless biz people who want to be in on the action... i think i can make an actual case for salieri syndrome here: the mediocre want to control protean talents.... it's all jung/freud: they wanna be close to it, so they can't kill it outright, but yet it feeds them and they love it, but they hate it... so they bleed it real slowly..... while they look for someone else.... creeepy. i know it's an old theory, but it fits. ***** god, one of my favorite lyrics is courtesy of duncan sheik on his deliciously scathing biz song called "good morning": "good morning, mr. cutthroat, these are most exciting times...." i love the second part of that; it sounds like something he actually heard in some stupid fucking meeting. some ass with a ponytail said it, i just know it. ***** anyway, as bennett pointed out, there actually *are* ways to deal with all the bullshit and still manage to maintain some semblance of integrity. i can think of tons of people right now, but, hey, there's that whole subjectivity issue to deal with. i know what i mean, though.... so i'll leave it at that. he had a good list, though. right on. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 07:21:54 -0400 From: Meredith Robbins Subject: Re: Bars of the Bed Lyrics Anyone? >I've always wondered what she sings over the Star Spangled Banner parts, but, >after lyric searching, it looks like NOBODY knows. You needed to look harder: http://www.exileinnetville.com/new/lyrics/wcse_demos.html (Scroll down. Finally, my stupid horrible ancient site makes itself useful. This is the first time I've even looked at it -- and I mean that literally -- in... two years?) Meredith - -- "This puplication has been issued without formal editing." - "Levels and Trends of Fertility and Their Determinants," United Nations, 1997 http://www.exileinnetville.com has a sugar daddy. Spy on me: http://www.livejournal.com/~phairbear ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:28:44 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Fwd: Meet the Evil Empire, same as the old boss In a message dated 5/2/03 1:10:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Random828@aol.com writes: << Just before the latest wave of short-sighted Liz bashing >> Okay, so why is it alright to start name calling those who don't like the new Liz stuff? Can we just stop this . . . I really like a lot of your ideas . . . even if I don't agree with them . . . >>She knows EXACTLY how all this works, and that she has divined a way to bring joyous sedition to the hordes who don't yet know any better than to listen to commercial radio. My God, people, go back and read her brilliant interview with Ken Lee. Her tour this summer will be a thing of beauty, and will expose thousands of kids who think Extraordinary is pretty catchy to music of a calibre they might otherwise have never experienced live. To say nothing of her awesome Song-Of-The-Month-Club idea for her fans who already get it.<< I just don't understand why any of this is nessecary. Writing music for my kid sister is great, I like it, too. But when an artist who used to write songs aimed at me and now writes them for her it's like . . . another one joins the ranks. I don't think Liz is meant for a fifteen year old, in the same way Kristen Hersh and Aimee Mann aren't. Their style is too sophisticated, and their themes too intense for a fifteen year old to appreciate . . . thank God. Please know that I understand that it's all about money and my kid sister is the one with the cash . . . but I want somebody to try and lure me into buying their cd for once. When these "kids" get to college or whatever they'll have friends who will give them Guyville and learn to love it. In the meantime artists such as The Breeders write kick ass music that is appropriate for any age. If Liz wanted to take out the mature themes and just write songs like Cannonball I'd say more power to her. But if she feels the need to lure people to her . . . I just can't support this. That being said . . . whatever . . . I'll follow Liz anywhere. Her early stuff is too brilliant for me to abandon . . . and Kristen Hersh is forming any band? It looks like the clouds are opening up yet again. james ============================== James E. Place 1233 Rodman Street Philadelphia, PA 19147 (215) 893-0657 TitleTK@aol.com "I'm loud, darling, but never cheap -- Jaye Davidson (Dil) Neil Jordon (The Crying Game) Return-Path: Received: from rly-xg05.mx.aol.com (rly-xg05.mail.aol.com [172.20.115.202]) by air-xg02.mail.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id MAILINXG24-5e93eb1fda3136; Fri, 02 May 2003 01:10:00 -0400 Received: from smoe.org (jane.smoe.org [199.201.145.78]) by rly-xg05.mx.aol.com (v93.12) with ESMTP id MAILRELAYINXG51-46b3eb1fd9615; Fri, 02 May 2003 01:09:42 -0400 Received: from smoe.org (ident-user@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smoe.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h4259Bsb006861 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 01:09:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by smoe.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h4259A4a006860 for support-system-outgoing; Fri, 2 May 2003 01:09:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com (imo-d04.mx.aol.com [205.188.157.36]) by smoe.org (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h42597sb006844 for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 01:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from Random828@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v34.22.) id p.114.22b72484 (4230) for ; Fri, 2 May 2003 01:08:55 -0400 (EDT) From: Random828@aol.com Message-ID: <114.22b72484.2be35766@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 01:08:54 EDT Subject: Meet the Evil Empire, same as the old boss To: support-system@smoe.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Mailer: 8.0 for Windows sub 911 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.3 required=5.0 tests=FROM_ENDS_IN_NUMS,MIME_LONG_LINE_QP,NO_REAL_NAME, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: from multipart/alternative by demime 0.97c X-Converted-To-Plain-Text: Alternative section used was text/plain Sender: owner-support-system@smoe.org Precedence: bulk Just before the latest wave of short-sighted Liz bashing, dana p. said that if innovative, exciting music came out, and the Clear Channels poured it onto the airwaves the way they currently force the dreck down their listeners' throats, then people would embrace it. Thinking about that, it occurs to me that the last time this happened was 39 years and 2 months ago. Ever since the Beatles/Stones explosion, virtually all the really groundbreaking artists have risen to prominence thru word of mouth or college stations, and were only played on big commercial stations after non-commercial buzz pushed them to the fore. Think of Hendrix, Tori, NIN, Nirvana - all of whom rose to fame before the consolidation of radio in the late '90s. The most extreme examples are groups like the Pixies and Velvet Underground, who are almost universally revered by rock music lovers and never got any commercial airplay. Ever. Am I saying commercial radio has always been the wasteland it is today? Nope. But the change has been somewhat incremental, and due not to radio consolidation, but to better research. Even before consolidation, radio stations stopped basing their new picks on their programmers' taste. They base it on surveys and pilot studies, which tell them overwhelmingly that people want to hear "new" music that sounds just like what they already know. Familiar, safe, derivative. This is why Dark Side's local CC station in Tampa inundates him with insipid pap. And Dana, you're correct that CC wants to promote their own acts and pull in revenue from every link in the chain, but they wouldn't use O-Town if a group with talent had broader or more intense appeal. Or at least, they would use O-Townish slime AND promote fine artists who would be supported by more than a handful of folks. As the old saying goes (at least it ought to), "One who gazes into a mirror and looks upon horror should not blame the mirror". None of this means that we should despair - it just means the time-honored task of music lovers is more important now than ever before. Which brings me (finally) to those of you who have been railing against our beloved Liz. She knows EXACTLY how all this works, and that she has divined a way to bring joyous sedition to the hordes who don't yet know any better than to listen to commercial radio. My God, people, go back and read her brilliant interview with Ken Lee. Her tour this summer will be a thing of beauty, and will expose thousands of kids who think Extraordinary is pretty catchy to music of a calibre they might otherwise have never experienced live. To say nothing of her awesome Song-Of-The-Month-Club idea for her fans who already get it. Who's right, those with faith or those without? Stay tuned to this station.... Mr. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 13:38:16 +0000 From: mollieclarins@att.net Subject: Dorian Gray The Dorian Gray reference is my favorite part of "Hot White Cum." I just finished reading The Picture of Dorian Gray for a class and I need to get started on another paper about it now so I might as well warm-up a bit here. *SPOILERS* if you want to read the novel (but I don't mention anything the last Dorian Gray post didn't mention already) I've never seen the movie but it was originally a novel by Oscar Wilde. It's interesting how Liz Phair juxtaposes herself with Dorian because the heart of the novel goes way beyond the plot of the portrait and the killing. That comparison really parallels a lot of complaints people are airing about the latest album here. The novel is really about the question of artifice and influence and its place in art. When Liz sings, "without you I'm just another Dorian Gray," what she's saying is she is empty without an outside influence; that's the story of Dorian. His story begins when he's somewhat sinisterly influenced by Lord Henry and then becomes enamored with his own beauty and youth through the portrait at the sake of his own integrity and morality. Twist is, the desire for the influence was always in Dorian, he just needed someone to spark it. What he did with the influence and his initial response to it was all in his hands. Also, rather than reading "Hot White Cum," on a superficial level as a song about a straight girl's hunger for semen, you can look at the Dorian Gray line and suppose the song is all about a male homosexual hunger for jizz. Dorian Gray is a story about desire and influence amongst men. Women play a very peripheral (although at times pivotal) role in the novel. It's a great novel. You get all those classic Wilde aphorisms and an innovative story. Read it if you haven't. OK, paperwriting time. - --Joselle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 13:48:32 +0000 From: mollieclarins@att.net Subject: More Dorian Gray Here's part of the preface of Dorian Gray: "The artist is the creator of beautiful things. To reveal art and conceal the artist is art's aim... Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault. Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are cultivated. For these there is hope... The moral life of man forms part of the subject-matter of the artist, but the morality of art consists in the perfect use of an imperfect medium... Vice and virtue are to the artist materials for an art... All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go benath do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex and vital. When critics disagree the artist is in accord with himself. We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely. All art is quite useless." - --Joselle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:17:05 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: oh, F(u)CC wow.... we've been talking about evil Clear Channel and, voila, today i got a e-mail about them from http://www.moveon.org outlining their craven plays for complete media domination. i got some kind of bulletin thingy; i tried to find this info on the MoveOn site, but couldn't. maybe it's still too early. if anyone wants to read this e-mail i got, with stories reported by journalists from http://www.alternet.org, among others, just let me know and i'll forward it to you. it's interesting stuff. for example, i did not know that colin powell's son runs the FCC. HEL-lo!! more about that on the alternet site. this stuff is more about the link between our political climate and clear channel's ascent, but i also learned that the dearth of local radio factors into emergency situations as well, and not in a good way. if you wanna check out more of the radio/music end of it, i've learned alot from http://www.velvetrope.com. anyhoo, just passing along some info.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 13:57:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Emil Breton Subject: Pitchfork blurb Not that there's any new info here (and I think I would've been better if Will Bryant had written it), but check it out. It's funny. (from www.pitchforkmedia.com): Liz Phair to Tour Acoustic with The Flaming Lips Sharpens dodge skills in anticipation of whitechocolatespaceegg peltings Rod Waterman reports: Some call her mercurial. Some just call her, well, an underachiever. It's been almost ten years since Liz Phair's exile from Guyville and in the intervening period we've had a grand total of two albums, both of which seemed to underwhelm the faithful, while never completely tanking with fans and critics. But Liz Phair is back and the big PR machine is rolling on her behalf. So stand by for some propaganda, filtered through our very own jaundiced lens. The ostensible story here is this: The new album will be titled Liz Phair-- as if, in the tired old music biz ploy, this record represents some sort of new, yet fabulously horrifying, beginning (think: Metallica, Weezer, Cheap Trick)-- and will be released June 24th. Phair will be touring in early support of the album, this time sans-stage fright-- she presumably got over it with a rigorous "Gratuitous Makeup Application" program recently instituted by her handlers (the same one Sheryl Crow underwent, but for different reasons). The first dates of the tour will be seven shows in support of The Flaming Lips, beginning May 23rd, and two festival appearances: the Field Day Fest in Calverton, Long Island, and Bonnaroo in Manchester, TN. Further touring in support of the album is promised and expected, details to be forthcoming. But, most certainly, if you plan on attending, you should expect to be flirted with mercilessly and unrequitedly-- if not by Phair, then by the salt-and-peppery charismatic himself, Wayne Coyne. Girls and boys of all ages will be required either to want to be her or to be with her, you know how that old story goes. Dates: 05-23 Portland, OR - Crystal Ballroom 05-24 George, WA - Sasquatch Festival 05-25 Vancouver, BC - Plaza of Nations 05-28 San Francisco, CA - Warfield Theatre 05-30 San Diego, CA - 4th & B 05-31 Los Angeles, CA - Palladium 06-03 Denver, CO - Ogden Theatre 06-07 Calverton, Long Island - Field Day Festival 06-14 Manchester, TN - Bonnaroo Festival Our very own Will Bryant reported extensively on much of this story a little while back, but at that time Capitol Records were slightly less than, ahem, forthcoming with the goods on the new record. They've since deigned to provide us with the tracklisting. Or did we get it off Soulseek? Hmmmm... 01 Extraordinary 02 Red Light Fever 03 Why Can't I? 04 It's Sweet 05 Rock Me 06 Take a Look 07 Little Digger 08 Firewalker 09 Favorite 10 Love/Hate Transmission 11 H.W.C. 12 My Bionic Eyes 13 Friend of Mine 14 Good Love Never Dies Speaking of which, Phair recently spouted some glazed platitudes about working with the corporate monster. And if we may, we would like to revisit one of those platitudes for a brief moment. Addressing potential unrest amongst her fans (as if they could even be bothered by now) about the decision to work with production outfit The Matrix (of Avril Lavigne fame), Phair remarked, "I think that people who stay indie are very 'us vs. them.' I say, 'Why paint yourself into a corner?'" Fine sentiments, I'm sure, but you might want to take a look at Liz's website, where, in a disturbing moment of corporate synergy, her current photos bear a striking-- not to say spooky-- resemblance to Avril herself. And please don't try to tell us that this all some kind of ironic gambit designed to play the game oh-so-well, because we're just not buying it. But what the fuck, the 12-year-olds won't know the difference anyway. Liz's shark? Consider it jumped. Her corner? Pretty much painted. Having said all that, I suppose we should all try to keep an open mind and withhold our judgment until we hear the album, blah blah blah, although that's proving slightly difficult in the overwhelming circumstance of the new songs sounding, frankly, horrible. You can check three of them out ("Extraordinary", "Why Can't I", and "Rock Me") at the official Liz Phair website. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:54:37 -0400 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: cool covers my all time favorite would be George Harrison's other favorite Beatle album (that is, other than "Revolver"), "Rubber Soul." in fact, i'm trying to buy as many vinyl copies of "Rubber Soul" as possible. not sure why. there's something "Rushmorian" about it ~ the mountain, not the movie. other favorites: the Who -- Who's Next the Who -- Quadrophenia (anyone remember the "Krustophenia" record on that one "Simpsons" episode?) King Crimson -- In The Court of the Crimson King KISS -- Rock And Roll Over Rush -- Grace Under Pressure Spinal Tap -- Smell The Glove Public Enemy -- Fear of a Black Planet Scorpions -- Love At First Sting (no, i've never owned it) i also think Beth Orton looks damn cute on the cover of "Central Reservation." chris deLisle ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 20:32:40 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: Re: Pitchfork blurb In a message dated 5/2/2003 4:58:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, yeahdude73@yahoo.com writes: > Wayne Coyne who's he? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:32:50 -0700 From: Charles Pham Subject: RE: Pitchfork blurb Frontman from The Flaming Lips. Double cool guy... - -----Original Message----- From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com [mailto:LilRussianGirl@aol.com] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:33 PM To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: Re: Pitchfork blurb In a message dated 5/2/2003 4:58:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, yeahdude73@yahoo.com writes: > Wayne Coyne who's he? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 20:44:06 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: liz opening for flaming lips So is anyone from this list going to be lucky enough to be able to see any of Liz's acoustic opening performances? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 21:34:05 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: cool covers Don't forget Happiness is a Warm Gun by The Breeders . . . james ============================== James E. Place 1233 Rodman Street Philadelphia, PA 19147 (215) 893-0657 TitleTK@aol.com "I'm loud, darling, but never cheap -- Jaye Davidson (Dil) Neil Jordon (The Crying Game) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 20:16:23 -0700 (PDT) From: SHERLY McLACHLAN Subject: NOT LIZ RELATED Hi All, Am I to understand that Trowing Muses has a new cd out and Hersh and Donelly are on the road together again? How long has the cd been out? Thanks SMc The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 23:58:52 -0400 From: ReallyHip@aol.com Subject: sealed supernova single auction Hey, I'm hawking an auction of mine on eBay. For a sealed supernova single. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1572&item=2528461746&rd=1 That is all. - -Michael ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #109 ************************************