From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #91 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, April 15 2003 Volume 06 : Number 091 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: support-system-digest V6 #89 ["Jon Burk" ] RE: support-system-digest V6 #89 [carrma@WellsFargo.COM] paean to self-love--with guitars! ["dana p." ] existential panic ["dana p." ] MCNE question ["dana p." ] [none] ["Jessica Corso" ] oh god.... ["dana p." ] So Many Thoughts [John-Paul Finger ] New Album bashing. [ReallyHip@aol.com] RE: oh god.... ["INMAN, DAVID B" ] Notted Panties [SHERLY McLACHLAN ] Re: Notted Panties [TitleTK@aol.com] RE: Re notted panties [SHERLY McLACHLAN ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:24:56 -0500 From: "Jon Burk" Subject: RE: support-system-digest V6 #89 - -----Original Message----- Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:02:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Griffes the pictures at the website seem like typical liz to me. at least you can tell its liz (as opposed to the cover of WCSE). *********************************** I thought it was Uma Thurman on WCSE when I saw it! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:40:56 -0700 From: carrma@WellsFargo.COM Subject: RE: support-system-digest V6 #89 //From: "cheddarcat" has anyone submitted their feedback about the new songs directly to the official liz site? it's like a little mktg survey.// I filled it out--it looks like they wanted some help picking singles. In the comments I asked them to at least release Down as a B side. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 09:55:30 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: paean to self-love--with guitars! heeeee.... well, actually, i don't know that there's ever been an official yes or no on that one.... i guess we all just assumed. i mean, doesn't he say stuff like "i always get it up, such a dirty mind... [etc.]"? 'cause, like, he can't score with her for real so he does the next best thing? isn't that what's going on? see, it was such a long time ago, and, like i said, we all just assumed... or maybe it's one of those "urban myths" or whatever.... he's in a bathtub full of ice, sans liver and yet thinking of sharona, and.... ok, nevermind. they keep playing it for the segments of ET that feature the new "charlie's angels"; i CANNOT WAIT for that one... i'm serious!! alrighty, moving on. so, ok, is it abbreviated "HWC" or is it spelled out?? on the CD. anyone? bueller? i'm really curious to hear this one now, as many think it's far and away the best one on there. i understand what was said about "you can't have it both ways," though, with including this song on there. i mean, yeah, if they're *consciously* going for the really young demographic, what is this doing on there? i was wondering the same thing myself. but the sticker is on there, right? i guess that's ok. bases are covered. but, still; trying to "titillate" 13-year-olds.... that's weird. 'cause, honestly, from what i've heard, this is just something to throw in the CDer while making the 2-hour trek to LA. you're not really *listening*. what's there to listen to? i guess it's just "fun" music, right? ok.... digging back into the archives, and speaking of F-U-N, gimme some Haircut 100 or Heaven 17. or, i know: SCRITTI POLITTI!!! green gartside, where did you go? i miss you, sugar. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 10:44:21 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: existential panic [it's me again....] someone made a comment about how she's just doing the "american" thing of expecting a profit for her work. fair enough. but, even more, i've noticed she's in the increasingly obvious habit of expecting maximal return for minimal effort. i know it's something that, when i see it, pisses me off, and i know i'm not the only person like that, so.... she's gonna get busted for being lazy, essentially. plus, i find it really interesting that she always wanted to get paid for making art and was even willing to live off canned beans and to forgo heat to achieve this aim. her first choice was visual art, but it turns out she's got a gift for songcraft. i know she's felt like a "reluctant" star and all this, but if you've always wanted to be an artist and then you are one and it's still not making you happy..... well, tah dah, welcome to the world, sweetness. that's life! some parts of it really suck! and, oh geez, sometimes you have to do things you don't wanna do 'cause they're boring and stupid. work is a drag, it's true. i mean, i think sooner or later a person has to realize he or she's not the only genius in town. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:34:50 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: MCNE question Hey, Tammy: for MCNE is it called "Materials and Methods" or "Experimental Methods"? Quite a few of them have the latter and I'm not sure if it should be changed. Thanks! Dana ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 15:51:29 -0400 From: "Jessica Corso" Subject: [none] So, I've been listening to Ms. Phair since I was twelve (I'm now 20), and her music has had a profound impact on my adolescence up until even today. She was one of the few musical entities that had a sort of voice that has stayed with me and taken on all sorts of new meanings over an eight year period. And then there's this new album. You know, I realize and am fully accepting of the fact that there will never be another Exile. And that's fine with me. I am all for "artists evolving" and growing and blah blah blah, my only request being that this oh so highly evolved music isn't complete and utter trash. I am in no way putting down anyone who likes this album, but it is not the musical Liz we grew up with. By this I'm not trying to suggest her material should sound the SAME, I'm just implying it should sound like HER. I thought Polyester Bride was a bit of a stretch from her usual when I first heard it, but you could still un- mistakably tell who was singing. After hearing the new songs up on the website, it sounds like it will just meld with the rest of the mindless drone that consumes mainstream music. I agree with the fact that musical artists cannot always please their fans, but I just don't understand how an obviously creative and intelligent artist could be personally pleased with marginal at best work. I was listening to the song "Do You Love Me" off of Girlysound last night, and I was saddened by the realization that it really does just become all about commercialism and money, even to someone that I've held in such regard since I was young. I supposed Liz said it best herself with the line "It's nice to be liked....but it's better by far to get paid."Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:28:58 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: oh god.... sorry... i think i just sent a work e-mail to the list.... shit. sorry! ------------------------------ Date: 14 Apr 2003 15:24:18 -0500 From: John-Paul Finger Subject: So Many Thoughts Okay, an upfront warning: I've got enough thoughts in my head to leave this e-mail on my desktop for a few hours while I write it every now and then... so I apologize for the randomness and Faulkner-esque stream of consciousness. Skip to the next if you wish. The new album is good, but its doing weird things to me. The first half is almost a guilty pleasure for me while I know the second half is much more "liz." The inherent problem though is that the first half is so catchy that I find myself listening to it over and over, feeling that I am in fact Extraordinary, and start to feel guily for not thinking about my own Bionic Eyes. Of course I'll buy it and I know that Liz is a genius. Maybe I want to "celebrate [her] entire catalog" but its hard when you have to rehear "Why Can't I?" several times. It should balance out in time, but theres an adjustment period. A bit ago I posted some pics that some friends of mine took for me at the SXSW show while I was in Europe. One of them is a casual Liz Phan - into her but not on this list for example. Today we were on our way somewhere and I put on the newer Album and her reaction was along the lines of "thats not what it sounded like live... this is so produced." Maybe its because we're all used to Liz vocalizing being "weak" (bad word for it, but I can't come up with any... I LOVE Liz's vocal styles) or less "songy" in parts because of her voice, not because of someone in a booth pushing a lever on a voice box? So essentially I think that once I (and all of us) hear Liz actually perform these songs, we'll be MUCH more into them, provided of course there arent too many teenagers with their parents in the audience. I really believe in Liz as a performer, former stage fright or not. ...Which goes into my feelings on "Firewalker." The studio version is good, but its lacking the intensity to me that the live versions seem to get across. I find myself wanting to say the "WHOOOOO" at *that* part in the song that the live recording has. It makes me think of the Nine Inch Nails version of Joy Division's "Dead Souls" from the first The Crow soundtrack. I know its a streach, but if you're still reading, go with me on this. There is a *slight* decreause in the tempo of the song, maybe 10-20 beats per minute. While it doesn't seem like much, its just that much slower than what you're used to that it makes the song slow down to a grind. You also can't replace the emerging comfort of Liz at that time as she came out of the Stage fright and really belted it out. I also love the xbox line in "Rock Me." While I partly use it to explain to friends what has happened to Liz, I also see it for what its worth - a great visual that tells me entirely too much about this guy. But then again I just finished college and play a lot of video games amongst friends... =). Its very visual for me. I can't remember who it was, but whoever called the album "so missionary" is a genius. What a good word for some of the songs - good enough that you can't complain about the effort but you know there are better ways. And thats only scratching the surface on that metaphor. As an aside, the new Type O Negative album coming out this summer is incredible and so refreshing. I haven't listened to metal much in the last few years, but if you're into that (not neu-metal or whatever the hell the buzzword is) I'd recommend it. Oh, and Halojocelyn and Liz are my heros =). John-Paul NP: Type O Negative - Life is Killing Me ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 17:03:30 EDT From: ReallyHip@aol.com Subject: New Album bashing. This is uncannily reminiscent of the 1998 fan revolt against Tori Amos' "from the choigirl hotel" when she went "rock". To compare a masterwork like "from the choirgirl hotel" to "Liz Phair" is a ridiculous stretch, but I see the same fanbase scatter as I did in 1998. Here's a thought... maybe everyone should calm down and wait to see what her next move is. A blatantly commercial release is something we can all deal with while we wait for 'genius' demo material. I love the new album. - -Michael ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:30:41 -0500 From: "INMAN, DAVID B" Subject: RE: oh god.... whew, does that mean that report isn't due by Friday?!? THANK GOD!! wouldn't be so funny if we all hadn't done it before... - -----Original Message----- From: dana p. [mailto:daisywheel@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 2:29 PM To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: oh god.... sorry... i think i just sent a work e-mail to the list.... shit. sorry! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 18:19:47 -0700 (PDT) From: SHERLY McLACHLAN Subject: Notted Panties Hey Everyone, Everyone still has there panties bunched up hun. Why can't we just except that she made this cd to please the artistic crushing record company. It's not for us! It's to fulfill her need, to have the record company support and premote her, otherwise she'd be done there. They forbade her to work with Wood because they don' t want to support her when she's doing that style of music. And that sucks!!!! Why, I don't know. I think she could have had tons of hits if they would have back her. I wish more artists would have the balls enough, like Aimee Mann, to tell them to Fuck Off. Or they should all ban together and make there own record company. They better support and premote the shit out of this one, after she made them a pretty studio cd and notted all these panties. If they do and the new one sell, the other 3 are going to go like hot cakes once people figure out she's a lyrical geniuess. I hope it happens for her. Bionic Eyes and HWC alone are with buying this cd. Have a Good One!!! Lor Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 21:51:14 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: Notted Panties >>they better support and premote the shit out of this one, after she made them a pretty studio cd and notted all these panties. If they do and the new one sell, the other 3 are going to go like hot cakes once people figure out she's a lyrical geniuess.<< Another random question to which I honestly don't have an answer: Do you think the people who like "Liz Phair" will also like her past three releases? I just have a feeling I'll be sitting in a bar somewhere along the way with somebody playing "Why Can't I?" over and over again on the juke box and saying . . . "man, I love Liz Phair, but her early stuff stunk. I can't believe I wasted my money on that droning shit." I hope I'm wrong. james ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 20:09:12 -0700 (PDT) From: SHERLY McLACHLAN Subject: RE: Re notted panties Hi James, Anybody who couldn't see the sheer brilliance of her previous stuff isn't worth trying to win over. I, only earlier this past year received copies of the Girly Sound cd's and other live stuff. (From someone who is totally cool. Thanks M) They blew me away. What a treasure they are. One can only hope that there are more people out there with great taste in music and once exposed to the new stuff will discover the old. Later Lor Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #91 ***********************************