From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #89 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Sunday, April 13 2003 Volume 06 : Number 089 Today's Subjects: ----------------- BJs for everyone! ["dana p." ] Re: support-system-digest V6 #88 [Dermich@aol.com] radio as rebellion... ["WhipSmart" ] i know it's only rock and roll ["dana p." ] FW: Pollstar Digest AutoNotify Update ["trent [hardcore since '74l]" ] Re: support-system-digest V6 #86 [Stephen Griffes ] Re: support-system-digest V6 #88 ["Michael Kaufmann" ] Liz involved in celebrity reading event [Kenneth Lee Subject: BJs for everyone! hey, you know what? as far as getting airplay goes, she--like everyone else--is gonna have to get out the knee pads and blow *every* exec in Clear Channel. TWICE. those days of a song "catching on" and having people call in to request it and, voila, it becomes a hit are long, long gone. and it's been like this for quite awhile now. this is another reason why i can't figger out why she's so intent on--what?--"subverting the machine" or whatever. i'm with bennett-boy yet again on this (sorry i kept referring to you as lisa; you got me). so.... yeah. whatever. i can't believe she was too stupid to figure that one out. but i guess it's easier to "play the game" (i guess it's certainly more fun--and the clothes are better) than to face the fact that you essentially have no control over whether your stuff gets major push. she's had radio-friendly output for years. that was never her problem. it think it was just assumed by those who make these decisions that she never needed the help. and, lo and behold, she sure does now.... mwaaahahaaaaaaa.... ok. and you just know she intimidated the shit outta all of 'em. they didn't know WHAT to do with her.... i always thought they released WS way too soon after EIG. i think they shoulda waited at least another 6 months. maybe even another year. it seemed desperate--to, tah dah, cash in. anyway, what a mindfuck. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:36:42 EDT From: Dermich@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #88 Heh. Actually, the "standard" now is that the absolute maximum for a major is one a year, but a new or developing artist would probably never be able to do more than one every two years. Although I loathe Beck like cancer, that's the reason he has two labels: so that he can do his non-faux-funk folksy records outside his Interscope/Geffen deal. I imagine someone like Manodda (yes, I meant to spell it that way) or U2 **could** theoretically get away with releasing an album every nine months, but the truth is that major artists just spend more time making records now than they used to. Far cry from when Bowie released his Berlin trilogy within a little over two years (and less than a year after Station to Station, too). By the way, I think I'm the only one left here who does have the new Liz yet, and I've actually decided to wait for its release. Derek > at this point, do labels actually encourage > artists to put out material as rarely as possible, or is that just a trend > that everyone has brought into outside of sleater-kinney and foo fighters?" ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:47:02 -0500 From: "WhipSmart" Subject: radio as rebellion... As a person who has been published, lemme tell you that sometimes you HAVE to do what THEY want you to do so that you can do what YOU want to... having said that, it seems plausible to me that Liz made her 'radio friendly' album so she could continue to make music... You don't make a lot in this business... even a successful artist may only pull down 20grand in a year, after everyone else takes thier cut of YOUR music... and Liz's albums haven't been flying off the shelves... Her label probably told her to get airplay or no more albums... Sure, she could always go back to a Matador-like indie label... but I wouldn't want to if I were her... she'll play their game for one album and then she can make the album that she really wants to next time... so let's cut her some slack... And if this is the album she's been wanting to have, then more power to her... I feel like Liz is a friend... her music has been there thru the good and bad times of my life... I'd be a fan even if she went and made a polka album... My point is this... if you like the songs, great... if not, that's fine too... you can discuss what's good and bad about the album.... but why take shots at Liz personally...? She's a person just like you and me... She grows and changes just like we all do... and I don't expect my friends to always stay the same just to make me comfortable... WS ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 01:10:00 -0700 From: "dana p." Subject: i know it's only rock and roll (yes, another post; well, i guess i'm officially in crisis here.... sorry ) ok, well, here's another thing: i was, for exactly one year, a 13-year-old girl. but i was NEVER, EVER a "13-year-old girl," you know what i'm saying?? i think alot of us were/are like that. these songs remind of when i was, ok, 17 and i'd put on my candies and a mini and drive around with my friends and go to parties. [only in those days, we'd have "my sharona" blaring out the windows--and at least it's about masturbation, for chrissakes--something *interesting*....which is the same reason teenagers, like the rest of us, liked "flower"] there's nothing wrong with FUN, mind you, but this woman is gonna be 36 in a few days here and, i swear to god, i fear i'm gonna hear her talk about her really mean english teacher and--oh no!--the perils of trying to juggle pep squad with maintaining a good B average, all while trying to catch the eye of the cute new boy and--oh, here he comes--can i borrow your lip smacker?? sheeeeeeeeeesh.... i'm afraid this is NOT enough for my teenage lust. so sue me. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 06:46:15 -0400 From: "trent [hardcore since '74l]" Subject: FW: Pollstar Digest AutoNotify Update Not sure if these dates are widely known ... trent (the other one) - -----Original Message----- From: robot@mercury.pollstar.com [mailto:robot@mercury.pollstar.com] Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 4:33 AM To: pitchatrent@yahoo.com Subject: Pollstar Digest AutoNotify Update Greetings ! We have just updated our listings. Alanis Morissette (1 update) 07-26-2003Costa Mesa Bjork (1 update) 07-26-2003Nigata Liz Phair (2 updates, showing 5) 05-28-2003San Francisco 05-31-2003Hollywood Rufus Wainwright (1 update) 05-06-2003London You are welcome to send us email at webmaster@pollstar.com Thank-You, Pollstar Premium Services http://www.pollstar.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 04:38:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #88 >>Plus, am I the only one hear who can really hear the old Liz in this new album?<< Nope, you're not the only one. I love this new album more and more every time I listen to it. Yeah, I have nothing more to say right now. I'm going back to listen to it again. Can't...stop...playing it... :-D Craig Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:02:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Griffes Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #86 i really like the new liz songs on the website. they fit the michelle branch/avril mold but they're better--catchy and fun. and i like catchy and fun sometimes...if i need something deeper and more meaningful and less slickly produced, i'll put on a different cd. I dunno why some people are being all dramatic about how much they dislike this music because it isnt like "old liz" (cringe at that phrase)...dont put so much stock into someone (esp someone you dont know!) if any kind of change is this hard for you to handle. "your record collection don't exist, you don't even know who liz phair is" is hilarious. the pictures at the website seem like typical liz to me. at least you can tell its liz (as opposed to the cover of WCSE). and according to ken's site, liz wrote 8 of the songs entirely herself. so the whole "eh eh eh liz is better when she writes on her own" complaints dont really hold up for the whole album ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 16:29:45 -0500 From: "Michael Kaufmann" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #88 I think this a part of the main problem with both WCSE and the new LP. I haven't heard anything from the latter but the three on LP.com but it occurs to me that we have such a hodgepodge of production without any producer that gets our phairest in the way Brad Wood got her the first two times. For example, Why Can't I? has a great moment with just Liz strumming and singing--that Liz we know and love from Exile and then Crash Bang back to the Matrix radio hook chorus. I'm tempted to blame the Matrix either directly or indirectly for the "We're going to get down to it" line that seems more like a bad imitation of the directness in Exile than something that should be in a song of hers. There's nothing wrong with radio hooks. Liz wrote some great ones in songs like Never Said and Supernova (an even better comparison perhaps with "Fucks like a volcano," sooo much better than the cutsiness blandness of Get down to it). But my point isn't how much better I think Guyville and WS are. Or even that she needs to go back to Brad Wood (though that might not be a bad thing if it's possible). It's why can't Liz find a producer that can help her the way Wood did? I think she has a hard time knowing how she wants to sound or how she sounds best, and good producers know how to get that from their artists rather than giving them their sound (a la Matrix, Phil Spector etc.). Shawn Colvin is a good comparison here (or Aimee Mann and Michael Penn--ya I know he worked with Liz and haven't heard those songs for comparison yet). Whatever you might think of Colvin's work (I think it's great), at no point do you wonder if that's what she wants to sound like--you feel she does, and everything sounds of a piece, like someone actually has some idea of how she can sound the best she can sound. I'm thinking more and more Liz falling into the maw of a big corporate label and not having a distinct sense of herself as an artist has much to do with the confusion. As if whatever VP at Capitol is in charge of her comes up with some new plan for making her pay, or prods Liz into coming up with something and says ok do that--hence this producer merry-go-round we see ever since Capitol came into the picture. Mike >>> owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org 04/12/03 00:17 AM >>> From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Looking forward to the b-sides and outtakes, especially from the Pete Yorn sessions. And, because someone had to say it, I REALLY miss Brad Wood! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:30:35 -0700 From: Kenneth Lee Subject: Liz involved in celebrity reading event Hi all, Liz will be participating in "A night with JT LeRoy and friends". It's a reading of JT Leroy's work, hosted by Winona Ryder, and featuring readers such as Liz Phair, Rosario Dawson, Maggie Gyllenhall, Debbie Harry, Stephan Jenkins, Tatum O'Neal, Bijou Phillips and Norman Reedus, as well as a performance by JT Leroy's band Thistle. It will be at The Public Theater in New York City on April 17th, from 7-10 pm. More details on my website... - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 20:39:32 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: the liz phair song Hey - if no one's mentioned it yet, the "Liz Phair" song is not by Weezer, it's by Weston. It's from the 2 CD set "Solution to Heal the Bay." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:49:32 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "cheddarcat" To: Subject: feedback Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 12:51:34 -0400 has anyone submitted their feedback about the new songs directly to the official liz site? it's like a little mktg survey. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 00:50:17 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "Mike Katsoulis" To: Subject: the best day of my life Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 15:21:03 -0500 Yesterday (friday) must have been one of the more complete days of my life... i FINALLY got a copy of the new liz cd, and although we all probably have a pretty good idea of the cd from the reviews already posted, i feel obliged to give my own review of the cd. just to start off, i would like to say that i was VERY pleasantly pleased by it. I may even think i like it more than Whitechocolatespaceegg. but then again, i have always been a sucker for certain types of pop, and this album is VERY pop. It reminded me to some extent of Nina Gordon's solo album, which many of you didn't like if remember correctly (i always loved it). If anything, its pop-ier. there is no doubt in my mind that this album will be an enormous hit. Here is my song by song review of the album (i'm using the wrong song titles, i know): EXTRAORDINARY - this song is A LOT MORE rock than i had previously thought. The clip that was up at the Supernova site didn't include the guitar riff. Well, i have to say that this song is great. At first i thought it was the type of song that you get sick of really quick, but i've found myself wanting to hear more and more of it as the day goes on. However, i do think that the song would be stronger without the "average everyday sane psycho" part. Unlike a lot of people, i think its a good idea to not release this song as the first single... "why can't i?" is such a great song to introduce the "new" liz. "extraordinary" will serve as the second single that CEMENTS liz's status in the world of radio/media. it will be her "ironic." (for those of you who do not like the al*n*s word, please forgive me for my comparison.) I played this song for my 13 year old sister, and she liked it a lot - said it sounded like HILLARY DUFF (for those of you who don't know, she is the 15 year-old star of the disney show "lizzy maquire".) take from that what you will. SCARED - I was expecting to not like this song, since the majority of you said it was weak. However, i must disagree - i think it is great. is it a Matrix song? the chorus is great. After 3 or 4 listens, however, i find myself wanting to skip it. it gets old easily. I agree with whoever said the lyrics weren't that strong ("somewhere is a place in your heart"... ack). i must say the chorus is perfect, and builds itself up very well. WHY CAN'T I? - i find myself in a different position than many of you with regards to this song. I think that it has the most "hit" potential, and is actually REALLY FUCKING GOOD. It is the PERFECT first single - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it will be a hit. Sure, it mimic's lavigne's "complicated" to some extent, but the important thing is that is a hell of a lot better. The only thing that concerns me about it is the lyrical content - this is LIZ PHAIR singing it. She is 35 years old. This song is much better suited for an 18 year old. The fact that liz phair is singing it almost makes it a joke. Regardless - its good. and my 13 yeard-old sister loved it. YOU'RE IN LOVE WITH ME - I really like this song a lot. I agree with the views that it seems like it is cut short. It is a simple-r song, i guess you could say it sounds like WCSE material. ROCK ME - I also really liked this song. its just so poppy - its hard to not like it. When i actually listened to the lyrics, however, it made me laugh. it was fucking hilarious that she wrote this song about wanting to fuck young guys (ummm... liz, if you're reading this... i'm an 18 year old male and will fully comply to any demands you may have in your time of need). after a few listens, though, and a lot more thought, it kind of makes me sick. she maybe sounds TOO eager to go out with younger guys. but that is just me taking it too seriously - its obviously a light-hearted, humorous song. name checks, however = not cool. TAKE A LOOK - this version is better. LITTLE DIGGER - AMAZING song. one of my favorites, definitely. its so sad... it almost made me tear up. the chorus is so perfect. its a slower song... after listening to several up-beat songs, "little digger" fits perfectly. FIREWALKER - i'm actually listening to this song as i'm typing. i love the intro, but i must say i was expecting something rock-ier. this song deserved to be rock, from the live version i have heard. i would have enjoyed it more had it picked up a little, but its still great. VERY slick, mid-tempo. it sort of has the "we are the world" effect - it sounds like liz wants to solve the world's problems. MY FAVORITE UNDERWEAR - is this a matrix song? i must say the song is catchy, but it is one of my least favorite songs on the album, mostly due to over-production. as far as the lyrics go - they are very reminiscent of the first two albums... its is just the melody and the vocal effects that make this song too much for me. too pop. LOVE/HATE - it's wierd that this is the title for this song. "its a war" fits more. The song is similar to the original version, except the chorus. i almost like everything about the live version better, however... the way she annunciates, the chorus... don't get me wrong, this version is good... the live version was just better. HOT WHITE CUM - man, its so hard to not sing this song in public. its THAT addictive. what makes it so good is how simplistic is... if there was just a bit less production, this song could definitely fit into "exile" or "whip smart." i love everything about this song, especially the hand-claps and harmonica. so summer-y. classic liz. i almost want her to release it as a single - i know it would have to be ridiculously edited and beep'd, but i think that would make people like it more, and raise awareness about the album. BIONIC EYES - a lot of you have said that you didn't think much of this song. i must disagree... i like it a lot. one of my favorites on the album. reminiscent of "whip-smart" in my opinion, with a lot more production of course... FRIEND OF MINE - this song keeps slipping from my mind... i know its great, i know i love it and that it is one of my favorites, but i cannot for the life of me remember how it goes. its good though, really good. GOOD LOVE NEVER DIES - this is the liz phair song we have been waiting for all our lives. This is by far my favorite song on the album... everything about it is amazing, from beginning to end... the perfect album closer. i think what makes it so great is the fact that it has the least amount of production (at least that is what it sounds like to me). i'm absolutely in love with it. ALRIGHT - there it is. The overall effect of the album is an EXTREMELY good one. after being a bit disappointed with the streaming versions of the 3 matrix songs, i was so surprised that i liked the album so much. the matrix songs definitely grow on you. sure its rock-pop, but its a logical progression from WCSE. it just makes sense. if liz were to go pop, this is definitely the way to go. its like a dirty michelle branch, if that puts it into perspective a little better. There is no way this album will not be a ridiculously huge success... its just too good and catchy to not be. HOWEVER, the one down-side to this album is that it leaves me wanting more... i wish she included a few more tracks... the album runs so perfectly that it could use a few more... it wouldn't be overkill in my opinion. Mike ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #89 ***********************************