From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #86 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, April 10 2003 Volume 06 : Number 086 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Playing Rock Critic [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Liz Phair, You're My Hero [John-Paul Finger ] 3 songs review ["john kim" ] average, ordinary sane-psycho ["Sandman" ] average, EVERYDAY, sane-psycho ["WhipSmart" ] Bounced message [owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ] requests? ["S - Kon" ] 3 new songs... [Dan MacDonald ] sorry..one more thing.. [Dan MacDonald ] Old Favorites ["J-Ho Meowser" ] Tour Songs [Kate Stewart ] Re: Lucinda "L-Will" Williams [fallout@purdue.edu] Bionic Eyes [Mumpsimus ] Re: A request from Liz...! [trentfs@ix.netcom.com] RE: Bitter Cheese [TitleTK@aol.com] Album Cover [Al Madrid ] RE: Bitter Cheese [Andrea Uptmor ] RE: Bitter Cheese ["trent \[hardcore since '74\]" ] (no subject) [TitleTK@aol.com] Tour Dates? [Charles Pham ] Re: (no subject) [robert joyner ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:59:51 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Playing Rock Critic Well I am....toneandgroove.com, where when I buy the album in June, will be reviewed by me. Anyway..... Heard the three new songs on LP.com: They're good, I like them a lot. I haven't heard such good pro pop since the Bangles 80s hayday with say, Hero Takes A Fall or In Your Room. it does take some getting used to this new direction, but once you do, it's fine. What''s bad: Yes they do sound like A Levine. A little too processed maybe. Reminds me of how I really didn't like the way the Bangles sold out with Different Light, but stayed anyway because I still liked the songs. The cool: I kind of missed the quirkiness that goes along with Liz, but Extraordinary is very quirky. I love the 'baby, baby baby' part, goofy as anything, and quirky. Cool! There others are less so, but I'm impressed, the last band I heard that sold out this big and so good was, yep, The Bangles. I suspect I will love this album. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: 09 Apr 2003 01:09:52 +0000 From: John-Paul Finger Subject: Liz Phair, You're My Hero Liz, if you're listening (maybe through Ken?), please play these on your tour amongst whatever else *you* want to play: Supernova (it got me hooked on you after one listen) Divorce Song (do I really have to say anything) Russian Girl (the show opener, no questions asked) What Makes You Happy (always hit me the right way) Really anything from "back in the day" would work, but those are my favorites that come to mind as being something that I want to hear live. I honestly can't wait to see a Liz concert since she hasn't performed in Texas (sans SXSW) since her Lilith Fair appearance. Yes Liz you have grown, despite of what we know. We will all recognize you tomorrow though. John-Paul Austin, Texas ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 02:28:04 -0400 From: "john kim" Subject: 3 songs review i've been a member of the list since the days of 6'1". with that said, i'm pretty biased towards early liz. i felt wcse was way too produced and commercial when it came out, but have come to really like it alot and probably put it in the cd player as much as any of the others. before i get to the new songs, i find the outfit liz is wearing to be laughable. she looks like a grown up avril. it's really gross to see her look all pouty with a cbgb shirt on. i think EXTRAORDINARY sounds like an overproduced liz song. but the voice is still liz. i can see what she was saying about teaming up with people and making a commercial record, etc. the lyrics are kind of crap, but whatever. WHY CAN'T I is such a ripoff of COMPLICATED, that i can't even fucking believe my ears. the melody is so unlike anything liz has ever sang, the chanting style, the whiny wail, it's so terrible. i think what we all love about liz's songs is especially the way she constructs roundabout melodies. this is just terrible. plus the reverb-y echo shit, is so played. IT'S SO PLAYED!!! just like the cbgb shirt. ROCK ME. it's the least produced sounding song. good. back to liz style melodies. good. terrible lyrics. i feel like a judge on american idol. woohoo! john _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 01:34:19 -0500 From: "Sandman" Subject: average, ordinary sane-psycho After listening to the tracks on lizphair.com, it has made the waiting for the album that much harder... I like the new direction not just b/c the songs stand up but, put simply, I like my artists to grow and evolve and change... The songs sound like a slickly produced 'Exile in Guyville/WCSE' mix... I dig it... Another thing I'd like to point out is that I think these songs (Extraordinary, Why Can't I, Rock Me) would sound great acoustically... just my 2" WS... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 02:00:33 -0500 From: "WhipSmart" Subject: average, EVERYDAY, sane-psycho first off... I am aware I got the lyric wrong in the subject line of my last post... I'm sorry... second... has there been any discussion as to why 'Down' isn't on this album...? I haven't heard the entire album yet, so I can't speak as to whether or not the song would seem out of place... but I thought it was a great song and worthy of album inclusion... anyone have anything on this...? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 03:29:01 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "CoolCave@rogers.com" To: Subject: Jeffrey Gray RE: CDRs Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 07:42:17 -0400 I think you're only bothered because you are in the industry. I really don't buy the Federal crime defense. Would it bother you if I stole staples from my office? I wouldn't think so unless you were in the office supply industry as well. I guess you are entitled to express your opinion no matter how unwanted (and unneeded) it is. But please cut the profanity, you sound like my grandmother. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 00:37:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Lisa Rosenthal Subject: the new songs Ok, I never say anything around here, but I have to comment on these new songs. I haven't gotten a copy of the album yet and I'm not going to because I don't want to kill the suspense before the official release. Also I'm too lazy to use the mail. Anyway, I did listen to the three songs on the website and... don't hate me or anything but they really suck hard. I know that most of you who have heard the whole album seem to love it, so I'm still holding out hope that these songs are the worst ones. Still, I think that by themselves they are bad enough to prevent it from being a truly great album. First, let me just say that I am ALL for slick, high tech radio-ready pop bliss. I actually kinda loved "Soak up the Sun," in fact. I could live with the Matrix stuff if it was JUST the production, but for them to cowrite? What's the point of Liz Phair if she's not even gonna write the songs herself? Sure I love her voice but this isn't American Idol. And plus, if it was, she'd lose. These songs are some hardcore pseudocelbrity navelgazing bullshit. Liz Phair is normal just like you and me! She even takes the trash out at night even though she's famous. She is a contradiction, you see... she is both average and larger than life at the same time. There's complexity for you. Alanis, take note! I like some of the verses for extraordinary ok, but they don't conquer the badness of the song as a whole. And the chorus couldn't be worse. Seriously, i really think BITCH by Meredith Brooks is more interesting. Extraordinary is sort of catchy, I guess, but otherwise pretty embarassing. Rock Me is even worse. Again, the self-involved celebrity thing, AND she fucking namechecks herself, not to mention XBox. Whatever... "YOUNG GUYS RULE!" yeah... Why Can't I is probably my least unfavorite of these three because it's kind of pretty and there are no huge embarassments. It's a song my 13 year old sister and I could probably agree on if we were listening to the radio together. But from Liz Phair? It's just so painfully undistinguished in every respect. And on a completely petty note: what the fuck is up with the pictures on the site? Is the Matrix also in charge of her wardrobe? Doesn't April Levine wear that exact same CBGB/OMFUG tshirt? And was Hot Topic sold out of spiked wrist-cuffs, ties and backwards baseball caps the day they did the photoshoot? Whatever. I still love ms Phair but it's sad that you seriously can't go home again. No one be mad at me for hating; I'm not trying to put down anyone else's opinion, and I'm still crossing my fingers that there are enough great songs on the record to make up for it. At the very least I hope she keeps her promise of putting the outtakes up on the internet. I expect that some of those are pretty good. On a side note, I got the new lucinda williams record too, and I like it ok. I could totally do without the "rapping" but I kinda love Fruits of my Labors, Righteously, Those Three Days, and Minneapolis. I assume the rest will grow on me with the exception of American Dream which stinks. Still, I really don't think any of it compares with Car Wheels, Essence or Lucinda Williams. Thanks for listening, bennett Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 03:58:38 -0400 From: "S - Kon" Subject: requests? I'd kill to hear: Nashville Bars of the Bed Stratford-on-Guy Shane Bloodkeeper WCSE [but only with that wicked light show that she goes on and on about in her sessions performance] and of course...fuck and run so yes. I'm out. xoxostacy ps. has anyone been listening to the hip-hop group northern state lately? I'd like to hear list opinions on them. _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:01:22 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: 3 new songs... listened to the three songs posted on the lizphair.com website. like everyone else, i was shocked when i heard the "sound" and at first i thought i was just going to hate them. but i love them. i agree with everyone who said it's "still liz..." i had no CLUE that "rock me" was about liz "rocking" a younger guy.... "cougar-on-liz!!" it's the new Mrs.Robinson, but reversed. i love it...sooo funny. "I wanna play X-Box on your floor!!" hahahahahaa...at first i was like "i'm sure she's brand-name dropping in a song.." but then after a few more listens i couldn't stop chuckling over it...toooooo damn funny..and wasn't "Flower" about a younger guy too? i'm pretty sure it was about some young guy that liz wanted, and to this day the guy still has no idea the song is about him. I didn't like "why can't i" at first. three listens fixed that. i think it's great for a "track 3" on the album. i'm now even MORE intrigued to hear the whole thing....can't wait..they sound awesome... HOWEVER: okay..the beginning of Extraordinary - you kinda hear a hint of heavier guitars, almost "bars of the bed"-esque ...and then the song kinda polishes out into a more produced guitar sound....mind you - i love the sound, but i wish to CHRIST liz would make a heavy album...just for once. like, do a bars of the bed, bloodkeeper, (for lack of a better term) "weezer-esque-kinda rhythm-guitar-fuck-it-i'm-gonna-blow-the-roof-off-of-everyone-sorta-album". it's still in the cards, i can feel it... dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 10:05:28 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: sorry..one more thing.. i hope the pics on the official site aren't outtakes from the album-cover photo session. not too impressed with those. first off - what the *HELL* is she wearing?? it reminds me of a cross between Madonna's "drowned world" tour outfit with the stupid "naughty-highschool-girl-kilt" and avril lavigne's "punker girl" look. i dunno....didn't strike me as liz-ish. she looks waaaaaaaaaaaa better with orange pop on a pair of old jeans. dan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Apr 2003 08:27:45 -0700 From: "J-Ho Meowser" Subject: Old Favorites Picks for Liz: Don't Have Time You Have No Idea May Queen Russian Girl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. Get 2 months FREE*. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 08:46:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Stewart Subject: Tour Songs I would really like to hear her play songs I've never heard before. So anything that didn't make it on to this album would be great, as would anything she's never recorded before. And of course, I'm hoping that Hot White Cum will become her standard encore. I can just see it, her walking off the stage and then thousands of people chanting for Hot White Cum. Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:51:53 -0500 From: fallout@purdue.edu Subject: Re: Lucinda "L-Will" Williams I heard there's a song on the new CD which she does a sort of rap thing, and that it's just awful. I'm afraid that if I hear it I'll just lose all my faith in everything, ever. Is that a possibility? Nevertheless, I think it would be a mistake to place Lucinda Williams the songwriter behind anyone. jeremy > From: TitleTK@aol.com > Subject: Off-Topic: Lucinda Williams > > I realize this is not Liz related. But the new Lucinda Williams album World > > Without Tears was just released today and it's just plain awesome. > > If you're looking for something to pass your time before June 24th you > couldn't do much better than her this . . . > > In my opinion Lucinda is the best singer/songwriter we have after Liz and Kim > > Deal. > > james ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 09:55:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mumpsimus Subject: Bionic Eyes I've finally reached the nirvana of having had almost all of the songs in it drifting in and out of my head throughout the day and being able to sort out which lyrics and melodies belong to which titles. I'm going to stop short of a full review and just give my impressions of the song currently leading the pack as my favorite song on the album, 'Bionic Eyes'. I really like the chorus/hook/whatever you call it; it has a very baroque-rock sound to it, kind of like Dukes of Stratosphear or maybe Love. The lyrics are also great, including a reference to a childhood song/rhyme/game in classic Liz tradition ('Light as a feather, stiff as a board'). That's all! - -Mumpsimus ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT) From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: A request from Liz...! >1) What songs would you like to hear Liz perform? Nashville Shane Dogs of L.A. Stuck on an Island Elvis Be True If I Ever Pay You Back Hello Sailor Can't Get Out of What I'm Into Batmobile Easy Canary Divorce Song Dance of the Seven Veils Girls! Girls! Girls! What Makes You Happy Trent ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:27:38 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: RE: Bitter Cheese Dear Liz, Ah, Liz, if only you cared about how revolutionary you once were. I know you like Sheryl Crow . . . so do I . . . but you don't have to sound like her. I still remember listening to EIG for the first time in my college dorm room at the University of Chicago. I bought it the first day it came out. I saw you perform those first wobbly concerts. You weren't very good. But somehow you were the voice of all us urbanites trying to brave the cold of the city. The first time I heard your voice I cringed, and now I cringe a second time. Do you know how loved you once were? You were idolized by every indie boy band. Weezer even wrote a song about you. You didn't sounds like anyone or anything. Your songs were bloody, grotesque, ironic, and profoundly sexual. They made me want to throw someone against the walls and make love to them in every position possible. Your music is now oh so missionary. Remember those outfits you used to wear to concerts? Those tight little numbers that clinged to your skin and made you look so classy? I'm sorry, but this "little lolita" look just isn't you. I hate to say that you were a feminist before, but you were, you didn't use sex to lure men in, you used sex for your own pleasure, and thus became easily jealous, hurt and angry as evidenced in your music. People are going to love your new music, Liz. You many even have a hot new single. But you are no longer in a league with the greats. Oh, we'll still have the old stuff to remind us, but it won't be quite the same. I suppose I'm pathetic to care so much, but anyone that truly loved and bonded with your first three albums knows that the past ten years have been a relationship with you and your audience. I suppose that relationship is over now. Your music doesn't speak for itself so we listen to interviews with you and you tell us what you think -- instead of hearing it from your guitar . . . I miss your guitar. But Liz, I've annoyed these poor list members enough. You have a whole new audience to entertain now and I'm sure you'll be fantastic as a "rock star." Your fantastic at everything you do. But as I walk the streets of Chicago now, your voice isn't as clear as it once was. Thank you for giving me some of the greatest pleasures of my life through your music. I guess I'll have to figure out the next 10 years without you. james ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:50:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: Album Cover Oh my God, if those pics on the LizPhair.com web site are going to be the front and back of the album cover, RIGHT ON!!!! I hope so. They are so awesome, I like her ensemble (too cute) and the colors are amazing!!!! I've been fooling around with them and I've made my own cd cover out of them. Wish I could share them with ya'll. They look pretty cool. :) Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:52:02 -0500 From: Andrea Uptmor Subject: RE: Bitter Cheese Dear James, Ah, James, if only you cared about how petty you sound. I know you like Liz Phair...so do I...but you don't have to blame her for your lack of growth during the past ten years. I think it's great that she's changed. That's what life is about. If she still sounded like Guyville I'd be a little worried about her. It is the musician's personal life experience (not your opinion) that guides the music, shapes it, transforms it. Are you telling me you haven't changed in the last ten years? That's sad. "this 'little lolita' look just isn't you." --> that's scary, dude. get a girlfriend. Andrea U. - ----- Forwarded message from TitleTK@aol.com ----- Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 15:27:38 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Reply-To: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: RE: Bitter Cheese To: support-system@smoe.org Dear Liz, Ah, Liz, if only you cared about how revolutionary you once were. I know you like Sheryl Crow . . . so do I . . . but you don't have to sound like her. I still remember listening to EIG for the first time in my college dorm room at the University of Chicago. I bought it the first day it came out. I saw you perform those first wobbly concerts. You weren't very good. But somehow you were the voice of all us urbanites trying to brave the cold of the city. The first time I heard your voice I cringed, and now I cringe a second time. Do you know how loved you once were? You were idolized by every indie boy band. Weezer even wrote a song about you. You didn't sounds like anyone or anything. Your songs were bloody, grotesque, ironic, and profoundly sexual. They made me want to throw someone against the walls and make love to them in every position possible. Your music is now oh so missionary. Remember those outfits you used to wear to concerts? Those tight little numbers that clinged to your skin and made you look so classy? I'm sorry, but this "little lolita" look just isn't you. I hate to say that you were a feminist before, but you were, you didn't use sex to lure men in, you used sex for your own pleasure, and thus became easily jealous, hurt and angry as evidenced in your music. People are going to love your new music, Liz. You many even have a hot new single. But you are no longer in a league with the greats. Oh, we'll still have the old stuff to remind us, but it won't be quite the same. I suppose I'm pathetic to care so much, but anyone that truly loved and bonded with your first three albums knows that the past ten years have been a relationship with you and your audience. I suppose that relationship is over now. Your music doesn't speak for itself so we listen to interviews with you and you tell us what you think -- instead of hearing it from your guitar . . . I miss your guitar. But Liz, I've annoyed these poor list members enough. You have a whole new audience to entertain now and I'm sure you'll be fantastic as a "rock star." Your fantastic at everything you do. But as I walk the streets of Chicago now, your voice isn't as clear as it once was. Thank you for giving me some of the greatest pleasures of my life through your music. I guess I'll have to figure out the next 10 years without you. james - ----- End forwarded message ----- - -- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 12:56:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "trent \[hardcore since '74\]" Subject: RE: Bitter Cheese now this is some funny stuff!!! andrea -- nicely played :) incidentally i ... heard the tracks online and love them think it's silly to chastise liz for what she wears am eagerly awaiting the release of the album and tour trent - --- Andrea Uptmor wrote: > Dear James, > > Ah, James, if only you cared about how petty you > sound. I know you like Liz > Phair...so do I...but you don't have to blame her > for your lack of growth > during the past ten years. I think it's great that > she's changed. That's what > life is about. If she still sounded like Guyville > I'd be a little worried > about her. It is the musician's personal life > experience (not your opinion) > that guides the music, shapes it, transforms it. > Are you telling me you > haven't changed in the last ten years? That's sad. > > "this 'little lolita' look just isn't you." --> > that's scary, dude. get a > girlfriend. > > Andrea U. ===== - ---hi, signature! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 16:15:10 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: (no subject) >> If she still sounded like Guyville I'd be a little worried about her. << Why does everyone keep saying that? I don't want another Guyville. I never said I did. But I do want something great. This stuff sounds like Heather Nova. All the tracks sound exactly the same. Where is the blues, the country, the punk, the plain old rock 'n' roll? Do you really find this music, these lyrics even vaguely interesting? As for the outfits . . . point taken . . . but God, she looks like Avril Lavine. james ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 13:31:02 -0700 From: Charles Pham Subject: Tour Dates? Hello all, I'm new to the list, so please forgive my ignorance. Is there an official list of Liz Phair tour dates? I understand she's opening for the Flaming Lips in Los Angeles at the Palladium May 31st. Are there additional support dates? Any headline dates? Thanks! Charles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 14:09:31 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: Re: (no subject) - --- TitleTK@aol.com wrote: > Why does everyone keep saying that? I don't want > another Guyville. I never > said I did. But I do want something great. I agree with you here James. Listening to the album I find that it lacks a memorable quality. I was asking myself, will I play this stuff a year or two down the line? More often than not the answer was no, even with some of the songs I liked (My mother is mine being an exception, a true classic). I like Extraordinary now but I'm sure it won't mean a damn thing to me in six months. Heretofore Liz has never been disposable music that had a limited shelf life for me. To those that are digging the new album, how do you think the album will stand up over a time? Listening to the album it came off like hearing the death of an artist. This > stuff sounds like Heather > Nova. Funny, I thought it had it's Vitamin C moments especially on Why Can't I? Robert ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Nashville - A Liz Phair Web Site http://www.geocities.com/robnashville - ------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #86 ***********************************