From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #83 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, April 7 2003 Volume 06 : Number 083 Today's Subjects: ----------------- CD tree update [Kate Stewart ] katie..you go girl! ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] Re: CD tree update ["Jeffrey Gray" ] Re: CD tree update [Brett Jones ] I'll keep her till the day that I die ["Mark J. Foxx" ] Re: CD tree update ["Jeffrey Gray" ] Fake Friends ["Jeffrey Gray" ] LA appearance? [JRHanan@aol.com] ADMIN: on-list fighting [Jase ] Re: LA appearance? [TitleTK@aol.com] Re: LA appearance? [Jase ] Re: LA appearance? [TitleTK@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:09:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Kate Stewart Subject: CD tree update Thanks for all of the positive responses. If anyone from Canada or Europe would like to participate in the tree, please include that info and I will group you guys together so that the postage will be less (someone suggested this, good idea). Again, thanks for your support, Kate Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:18:01 -0400 From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: katie..you go girl! katie your post was right on! i remember years ago going to the local indie store and buying up every single wcse flat i could find and then mailing them out to the first 20 or so list members who contacted me for NOTHING, not even postage and i was happy to do it!....its time to share the wealth people! any list members in north carolina? I'm moving soon! DarkSide oftheMoon _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 14:47:58 -0700 From: "Jeffrey Gray" Subject: Re: CD tree update I think it's reprehensible that you people feel you deserve to get the album before the general public. Because you're devout and promise to buy a commercial copy when available? I'm not saying that I nor anyone else has made this list and its member emails/names available to Capitol Records, I'm just suggesting that at the least you dont make it a point to advertise you intent to break federal copyright law. I think another person suggested keeping it out of the "public" eye as well. I'm 100% for artists rights, not selfish and lawless fans. I hope that you are prepared to face consequences. Maybe you should check out everyone who's requesting a CD copy before you blindly send them your federal crime evidence? - -----Original Message----- From: Kate Stewart To: support-system@smoe.org Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 10:09:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CD tree update > Thanks for all of the positive responses. > If anyone from Canada or Europe would like to > participate in the tree, please include that info and > I will group you guys together so that the postage > will be less (someone suggested this, good idea). > Again, thanks for your support, > Kate > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more > http://tax.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:04:10 -0400 From: Brett Jones Subject: Re: CD tree update After getting pounded in the ass, at a Federal Pound You in the Ass Prison, Joe's cellmate (We'll call him Pounder), asks him what he's in for. Through the tears and sobbing Joe mumbles something about Liz Phair and cdrs. "Liz Phair huh?", Pounder thinks back to the summer he was incarcerated, remembering the randy lyrics from Exile In Guyville. Pounder looks at Joe with a gleem in his eye, Joe know just what this means. "Bitch", pounder says. "Get over here, your going to be my Blow Job Queen". - -- Brett Jones brett@5foot2.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 18:55:53 -0500 From: "Mark J. Foxx" Subject: I'll keep her till the day that I die I feel like I've been the only one here who's been down about the new album like...at all...which is weird because I love Liz Phair so much...so...I'm making a list...because I'm lame...and I have nothing better to do on this lazy Sunday afternoon. I LOVE (condensed): "6'1"" and it's opening Guyville Everything about "I Can't Get Out of What I'm Into" That I can't not sing along to the verses of "Go Speed Racer" "I'll fuck you and your girlfriend, too" The random viciousness of "Elvis Be True" "...and it's the same goddamn thing I told you baby it's all...right" That "I Know It's Not Easy" is like...a thousand minutes long...but you'd never even notice if you didn't look at the clock on your stereo. It's like...that's just how long the song happens to be...and she'll stop when it's done, and I love every second of it. "The mean girl with the eyebrows" The openings to "Canary" and "Shatter" The use of the word "cunt" in "Dance of the Seven Veils" That the album version of "Support System" is just the coolest thing that's ever happened That the album version of "Go West" is just the second coolest thing that's ever happened That "Support System" is so frickin' cool live "Shane, I said, you gotta watch your ass" "May Queen" (like it's even necessary to mention it) Whatever makes "Alice Springs" so weird and lovely "Saturday Saturday Saturday" WCSE - I was a little too young at this point in my life to be every day anticipating this album, so I don't know how it felt for everyone who was; but for me, this is just...an amazing album. It seriously upsets me when people bash it. There were some really great songs that didn't make the cut, but I think her choices were perfect. It all...works so well...to me. That "Perfect World" is somehow not only not at all obnoxious, but one of my favorite songs ever That the album version of "White Chocolate Space Egg" is just the third coolest thing that's ever happened "Polyester Bride" - bash it all you want, but I think it's a fucking amazing song. I cannot accept that this wasn't a hit. And it's so...crazily catchy. I love how she speeds it up just slightly when she plays it live. I love that. I love this song. I love it so much. It's stupid that so many people couldn't get over their indie music pretentions or whatever and just enjoy it. It's a quality song: cool lyrics, cool title, cool bridge, amazingly catchy. "He's got an ex-wife in Pasadina / and sometimes she's a mess to deal with" "I'm sending you this photograph / I swear this one is gonna last" "Girl's Room" And...I've already gone into what I love about the new album. But, seriously..."Good Love Never Dies" is such a cool song and a perfect closer. I just listened to it, and it's just...cool...and wonderful. I love it so much. Also, for real, Liz's voice has gotten so much better. I was never one to really...care about her voice very much...because I already loved the way her voice sounded so much...and her music isn't really about hitting notes and rarely requires it. But...yeah...it's...realy good now. Good for her. I hope she performs "Beginning to See the Light" a few times on tour just to show it off. I L O V E Y O U L I Z - -Mark _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:47:33 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message (Re: CD tree update) From: robert joyner Subject: Re: CD tree update - --- Jeffrey Gray wrote: > I think it's reprehensible that you people feel you > deserve to get the > album before the general public. Because you're > devout and promise to buy If you find the list and the activities therein so reprehensible, feel free to unsub anytime. Such activity has been a healthy part of this list and will remain to be so in the future. Either adjust to that fact or save yourself the angst and unsub. Constant bitching about the injustice of it all is gonna change nothing, only piss folks off. > I'm not saying > that I nor anyone else > has made this list and its member emails/names > available to Capitol > Records, Uh, there are Capitol employees on the list that have been on the list for quite a while (and actually subscribe from their capitolrecords e-mail address) and know what this list is all about. They haven't stooged anyone out, but for some reason you feel it is your duty to do so? I'm just suggesting that at the least you > dont make it a point > to advertise you intent to break federal copyright > law. I think another > person suggested keeping it out of the "public" eye > as well. > I'm 100% for artists rights, not selfish and lawless > fans. I'm 100% for the selfish fans myself. I know the difference between right and wrong in this case. I just don't care. > I hope that you are prepared to face consequences. Maybe you > should check out > everyone who's requesting a CD copy before you > blindly send them your > federal crime evidence? If anything happens to anyone on the list, I for one will never buy another liz phair cd or concert ticket again. That's a dangerous game if the record company plans to go that route. If Liz's Matrix tracks don't turn off her fans, I'm sure her record company suing them will. robert ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ Nashville - A Liz Phair Web Site http://www.geocities.com/robnashville ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 20:55:41 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message (Re: support-system-digest V6 #82) From: "Mark J. Foxx" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #82 It's funny that...Ken quoted me twice. I feel so special.../obnoxious. Anyway, yeah, I sort of thought about it after the e-mail, and noticed that the track order and stuff was all the same...and that they probably were all the same songs and that the titles were probably just assumed. The "It's a War" / "Love/Hate" thing is the only thing that really...still throws me. And I'm gonna review the album for a third time...despite the raging opposition. Anyway...after listening to it a thousand times in random order this week, I listened to it in...the real order today...and found that it all sorta worked once I got used to it all. It may just be that I'm going to love anything that Liz Phair does, and anything that annoys me will dull away after the first few hundred listens, but...yeah. But, yeah, my point is, now I totally love it. I can't believe I ever considered making a "My Mother Is Mine"-less mix of it. The only things about it now that annoy me are that the first verse of so of "Scared" borders on Avril parody and that the chorus of "Take a Look" is still...not a chorus. I'm still debating the "young guys rule" line in "Rock Me". It annoys me, but it still sort of works because she's...talking about being with a young guy...and that's how...the young talk...I guess? The only song really on the album that I don't really love in one form or another is "Bionic Eyes"...and that's actually a fine song, and I really don't get why I DON'T love it. It just doesn't...click for me...for some reason, but it's a fine song. THINGS I LOVE ABOUT LIZ PHAIR'S NEW ALBUM: "Extraordinary" - everything "Red Light Fever" - catchy "Why Can't I" - the intro to the second chorus... It's so...excellent...in the context of the song. It's so wonderfully hidden beneath the production that I didn't even notice it until about the 80th time I heard it. It was like hidden treasure...and I have to protect and hide it from the other pirates...or something. Or make sure everyone's noticed it...because I love it way too much. "It's Sweet" - the transition from the weird opening stuff into "and I really didn't even ask...what time it was" and the chorus. it's lovely...totally sweet "Rock Me" - second verse...is still the best thing ever "Take a Look" - I, yeah, am still not the biggest fan of the subject mattered (see Whitney) or the chorus, but I'm so in love with the first and last verse I listen to it every time (sometimes with a little fast forward). It all actually does work well enough in context, though. "My Mother Is Mine" - I didn't think this fit at first, but like...it works really well...if you listen to all of "Take a Look". Anyway, it has this...totally amazing chorus. The suject-matter is really well-handled, and I think it's cool that...there's even a song like this out there...because it's weird how much divorce there is but how few songs there are about it. This song is so whitechocolatespaceegg, and I love wcse so, so, so, so much. I bet this song would be cooler if the production were slightly...less...or not at all...but it's not overdone, so it's just a minor thing. A good, acoustic live version will be something to get excited about. "Firewalker" - I don't...get this version at all, but I know there's a good song trapped in there somewhere, so it's ok. I think I'll probably just burn a copy with the Wellesly version...provided my CD burner ever gets back on track. "Favorite" - So innocent, so fun. I love that just vocal part towards the end after the musical / mass of production interlude. That almost always works for me. "Love/Hate" - I liked the original chorus better, but...yeah...it's just a cool song "H.W.C." - Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. I love how...innocent it is. Like...even with the chorus...it's still like...just a fun, summer-y love song. It's so...Peter, Paul & Mary...or something. "Bionic Eyes" - It's...pleasant...? "Friend of Mine" - Heartbreaking and wonderful. It's very reminiscent of "Go On Ahead"...and just as amazing. "Good Love Never Dies" - I think it's a perfect closer. I love the chorus. It's upbeat, and...just...a perfect closer. Anyway...yeah...analysis over. Who's still reading? I'll send you $5. E-mail me for details. - -Mark >Date: Fri, 04 Apr 2003 23:58:14 -0800 >From: Kenneth Lee >Subject: clearing things up > >Mark J. Foxx wrote: > >In my personal opinion (especially since everything that gets cut from >the > >album is going to end up on the internet sooner or later), I think the >album > >would be a lot stronger if she cut it down to 10. I would definitely >take > >out "Take a Look", "The Mother Is Mine", and "Firewalker". Maybe >"Scared", > >too. Maybe I should just burn my own version. Whatever. There will > >inevitably be some changes made from this version by June anyway. We'll >see > >how...those go. > >Mark J. Foxx also wrote: > >I'm so happy this isn't the final version of the album. > >Or...I assume the title changes mean...different versions > >of the songs. Anyway, I'm glad she's changing "It's a War" > >back to "Love-Hate". Hopefully "Red Light" will have better > >lyrics than "Scared". They're...probably the exact same > >version...but still! Still. > >Hi again... > >Let me clear things up. There has been NO CHANGES >to the album that is currently circulating. The song titles >that are associated with the circulating copies are ones >that were assumed by whoever had a copy of a copy. >The ones I mentioned in my last post are the official titles. >They are the same songs. Nothing different. > >Here's the breakdown, in case you wanted to know: > >1. Extraordinary >2. Red Light Fever <-- thought to be titled Scared >3. Why Can't I? >4. It's Sweet <-- thought to be titled You're In Love With Me >5. Rock Me >6. Take a Look >7. Little Digger <-- thought to be titled My Mother Is Mine >8. Firewalker >9. Favorite <-- thought to be titled My Favorite Underwear >10. Love/Hate <-- thought to be titled It's A War >11. H.W.C. <-- well, no explanation needed here :) >12. Bionic Eyes >13. Friend of Mine >14. Good Love Never Dies (Alternate Mix) <-- thought to be titled Let The >Night Come > >Let me quote Liz from one of our Q&A sessions: > >"The album is mixed and mastered, but I am ultra-thinking little things >like time between songs, which master version to use, things you really >don't need to know about but things I have micro-managed for as long >as I have been making records." > >"You have to realize, the songs on the disc are my choices, feel very >liberating to me. almost half are technically demos." > >I hope that clears things up a bit. > >- -Ken >kenmlee@ix.netcom.com >MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE >http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 21:04:10 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message (Re: support-system-digest V6 #81) From: "cheddarcat" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #81 ok, i don't really care that others have the new CD, i am completely willing to wait. i've got tons of other new music to listen to at the moment. HOWEVER! if there are liz songs on this early CD-ROM, like 'scared' etc., that won't make it to the final one then someone better share them. mp3s or just tape it or whatever. also a question what happened at the infamous lounge ax show?? did a bunch of listers hang out with liz after the show or something? i am, out of it. > Hi all, > Here is the definitive tracklisting from the forthcoming self-titled album: > > 1. Extraordinary > 2. Red Light Fever > 3. Why Can't I? > 4. It's Sweet > 5. Rock Me > 6. Take a Look > 7. Little Digger > 8. Firewalker > 9. Favorite > 10. Love/Hate > 11. H.W.C. > 12. Bionic Eyes > 13. Friend of Mine > 14. Good Love Never Dies (Alternate Mix) > > Thanks to you know who... > > - -Ken ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:09:06 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Tour So, here's a random question . . . What do we all think her set list will look like? I'm sure it will be mostly new stuff . . . and I don't think she has a choice but to play Fuck and Run, Flower and Supernova . . . But do you think the usual standard live stuff such as Mezmerizing, Never Said, Stratford-on-Guy, and Divorce Song will make it? And any chance of us hearing Support System, Nashville, or Canary? Just food for thought. james ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 22:04:35 -0400 From: Jase Subject: Re: Tour James wrote: >So, here's a random question . . . > >What do we all think her set list will look like? > >I'm sure it will be mostly new stuff . . . and I don't think she has a choice >but to play Fuck and Run, Flower and Supernova . . . > >But do you think the usual standard live stuff such as Mezmerizing, Never >Said, Stratford-on-Guy, and Divorce Song will make it? > >And any chance of us hearing Support System, Nashville, or Canary? > >Just food for thought. I don't know if the majority of the songs she'll play will be new ones -- after all, during most of the WCSE shows, she played more songs from _Exile_ than that album (although she played very little from _Whip-Smart_). I think she will have to give in and play a lot of the "crowd pleasers" -- I'd include "Divorce Song" in with the three you named. I think there's only ever been a couple of shows where she hasn't performed "Divorce Song" and "Fuck and Run." I'd be sad if "Stratford-on-Guy" and "Mesmerizing" were no longer staples of her set list, but I can't blame Liz if she's not that interested in performing songs that are a decade old now. "Support System" and "Cinco De Mayo" both sounded great on the last tour, so I hope she'll still do those once in a while. I've given up on hearing "Nashville" live, though -- I think the only shows she's played it at pre-date the release of _Whip-Smart_. Some of the other older songs I hope Liz will still play are "6'1", "Explain it to Me," "Jealousy," "What Makes You Happy," "Johnny Feelgood," and "Perfect World." I'm having a hard time guessing which songs from the new album she'll play. I guess "Extraordinary" and "Why Can't I?" are obvious choices, but I hope she'll also do "Love/Hate" and "It's Sweet." Also "Firewalker" -- I think the album version is pretty damn great. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:45:58 -0700 From: "Jeffrey Gray" Subject: Re: CD tree update If anyone from this list gets slapped with a lawsuit I'll buy ten copies of every album Liz Phair puts out. Instead of being the obvious ignorant asshole that you are, try walking in shoes that you dont own. The self centered attitude that the world deserves free music is an overdue cliche. I can't wait till the RIAA sues more than just 4 college kids. Lessons need to be taught so respect and compliance come back. That's support. Not stealing. I'm going to borrow your car tonight, maybe I'll buy it when you put it up for sale in a month. I'll probably let lots of people drive it too. You're the same asshole who thinks you pay every police officer's salary. I'm glad I piss of anyone on this list. I'm glad you're the most pissed. GO fuck yourself and your holy and deserving attitude of "get used to it or get out of the way.". Assholes like you and the rest of your kind are the reason people like us exist. I guarantee you if we handled Liz, you'd have been our bitch many emails ago. :) Selling promo's on eBay is bad enough, but CDR's of that promo. How disgusting you people are to sell or buy them. Please tell me about every commercial release everyone on the list has a stake in. I'd love to serve up some humble pie. Pesci ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 19:55:48 -0700 From: "Jeffrey Gray" Subject: Fake Friends "Yeah I'm a big fan of Liz Phair, fuck yeah!" "Well, I know the commercial appeal of her latest album is a great step in the direction of expanding her presence and fan base. I mean I admit the songs are way more commercial and consistantly catchier than most of her stuff before and maybe I can adjust to it right?" "I mean doesnt an artist have a right to be one? Don't they have a right to change or to try something fresh for them?" "Shit who am I to suggest that she remain her strange?" "If I really hated what she's become as an artist, it doesnt change her history and how it's affected me." "That's cause I'm an intelligent person. I mean christ Liz Phair wanted to have more fun I guess. She makes different music now and more people are listening than ever before. Thumbs up lady". "Oh wait, yeah I saw that article. Some asshole is bitching about the big bad record companies suing him for copyright infringement. I think it's funny that they wanted to make an example of him. He's bitching about the fact he only made like 15 copies of that album and distributed them. Yeah and then I saw his rant about never buying another Liz album again. What an ass, I mean Kudos to a record company finally going to bat for Liz and supporting her and her rights. And really, I mean the guy broke a Federal law knowingly and he tries to paint the enforcers in a bad light? This guy shoulda worked with Enron and Michael Milken." > > If anything happens to anyone on the list, I for one > will never buy another liz phair cd or concert ticket > again. That's a dangerous game if the record company > plans to go that route. If Liz's Matrix tracks don't > turn off her fans, I'm sure her record company suing > them will. > > robert > > > > > ===== > ------------------------------------------------------------ > > Nashville - A Liz Phair Web Site > http://www.geocities.com/robnashville ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:01:31 EDT From: JRHanan@aol.com Subject: LA appearance? Hey, I just moved to Hollywood, and I just happened to notice one of my favorite bands was going on tour and gonna play a show just around the corner from me. The Flaming Lips are coming to town. So then my friend comes downstairs and says to me, "Did you get your Flaming Lips tickets yet?" I said, "No." She said, you better get them fast - did you know Liz Phair is opening?" WICKED, MAN! So nice. I love it! It's true! I saw it in the LA Weekly. Tickets will be mine tomorrow. Oh, yeah, it says "Acoustic" so she'll be playing acoustic... amazing!. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:25:08 -0400 From: Jase Subject: ADMIN: on-list fighting Since the current discussions seem to be taking a nasty turn, I thought it wouldn't hurt to remind everyone of my feelings about flames and personal attacks. From the e-mail of list rules everyone receives when they first join the list: "Flames are not encouraged and have no place on the list. If I see any messages like this, I will ask that the authors of such posts take the matter to private email to save it from cluttering up and being disruptive to the list. Feel free to disagree with or offer constructive criticism regarding anything that has been posted, but do keep it friendly. There is no need for flames or personal attacks." I know not everyone is going to see eye-to-eye all of the time and I'm all for debating ideas or opinions, but try to be respectful while doing so. This does not mean name calling or attacking one another. This list is primarily for discussion of Liz and her work. While I will, for now, allow discussion of ethics and laws, that's not what this forum is intended for. If the discussion continues to be unpleasant, I will ask that it be taken off-list. If it still persists at that point, I will start removing any offenders from the list. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:23:25 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: LA appearance? JESUS FUCKING CHRIST is she touring everywhere with them?? I have tickets to see the flaming lips in philly!!! james ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 23:46:36 -0400 From: Jase Subject: Re: LA appearance? James wrote: >JESUS FUCKING CHRIST is she touring everywhere with them?? I have tickets to >see the flaming lips in philly!!! I don't know about all of the shows, but according to one post on the Lips' message board, she's opening for them on May 23 in Portland, OR at the Crystal Ballroom. An ad for the show that appeared in the Oregonian's A&E section on Friday mentioned that she would be playing a "Special Acoustic Set." I'm going to see if I can find anything else on Pollstar... Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 23:39:14 EDT From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Re: LA appearance? no opening act listed at ticketmaster james ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #83 ***********************************