From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #74 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, March 29 2003 Volume 06 : Number 074 Today's Subjects: ----------------- the liz single & American Life [ReallyHip@aol.com] extraordinary - imo ["Mike Katsoulis" ] Promotional cds [Charles M ] The New Record...and then some. ["Supernova" ] little dear [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] Re: The New Record...and then some. [ReallyHip@aol.com] extraordinary (again) ["Daaaaan Theman" ] Fwd: extraordinary - imo [TitleTK@aol.com] Oops! ["Velocityboy3" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:33:07 -0500 From: ReallyHip@aol.com Subject: the liz single & American Life What's the harm in distributing the single? We need SOMETHING! :) Host it on a personal page for a few hours for the list people. I don't see how that is doing any harm to anyone. BTW... I assume everyone's heard Madonna's atrocious new experiment in rap? American Life is one of my top five worst songs ever. And I've heard alot of shitty music. - -Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 01:12:04 -0600 From: "Mike Katsoulis" Subject: extraordinary - imo in response to the clip of "extraordinary" on the supernova site: upon first listen, i was shocked... i honestly think my mouth dropped. i expected it to be poppy, but with a liz phair edge. this didn't have a liz phair edge - its poppy, plain and simple. talk about an artist changing their sound. there is absolutely no comparison between "extraordinary" and anything off liz's first two, fuck, even three albums (and i love WCSE). in the interviews between ken and liz, she says that her new album is geared towards a rock edge... if "extraordinary" is her definition of rock, then wow... we have a major difference in opinion. and we thought WCSE was different... even "polyester bride" is a stroke of genius compared to this manufactured song. after the initial shock and tinge of anger subsided, however, i listened to it as a pop song - and when you are able to do that, its pretty clear that it is one kick-ass song. i'm just concerned as to how a track like this will be able to fit in with other, more rocking (hopefully) tunes... i just cannot, for the life of me, understand this transition. she wants money, yes. but what about integrity? i, like many others, will reserve further judgment until the album comes out. WHICH LEADS ME TO ASK - where are people finding these promo copies of the album? there is definitely no way in hell that i am waiting until june 24th... screw ethics. i will spend my hard earned cash on the album when it comes out, but i will definitely do whatever i can to attain an advanced copy... mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 03:16:56 -0500 From: Charles M Subject: Promotional cds This is a long, opinionated post. You have been warned. (1) Promotional cds are marked "not for sale" to discourage their resale but also to secure/confer a tax benefit. If it is marked "not for sale, for promotion only" the record companies do not have to count the disc as part of their salable inventory and therefore do not pay taxes on the item. (2) I'm not a lawyer, but the claim that it is illegal to purchase promotional items just seems plain wrong. It is surely illegal for RECORD COMPANIES to sell items designated as promos (see the tax angle noted above), but I don't think such restrictions could apply to civilians. There are many many music collectors' shops all across the US and the world that deal in promos. If you don't believe me, go to a good bookstore or used music shop and buy a copy of Goldmine magazine (or, in the UK, Record Collector). If it truly were illegal to resell or buy such goods, these businesses would not be around -- many of them have been operating for years and years in plain sight of the industry and authorities. (3) It is certainly true that artists and record companies would not make any money if all cds were promotional, but that is not the case. Most people don't buy promos -- they want the "real thing", all neat and clean in shrinkwrap, without an ugly gold stamp or with regular cover art, etc etc etc. Who buys promos? My guess is they end up primarily with students and other people on limited budgets or with serious music nuts, like folks that might subscribe to an artist-oriented internet mailing list. It is just not true that a sold promo (or traded MP3) simply equals a lost sale of the full-price commercial item. The people on a budget just won't spend beyond their limit and the music nuts will buy the promo AND the commercial release (AND the Japanese import with bonus track -- but that's another story: anybody remember when the US record industry claimed that imported LPs were ruining business? Does that sound familiar?) (4) If the industry really were serious about the so-called threat posed by unwanted trafficking of promos, they could hold the recipients of promos responsible for their diversion. Sue their asses. I'm sure I'll hear that such a thing is impossible, but Matador Records (remember them?) used to monitor commerce of their promos and get nasty with music critics that sold their review copies of the new Pavement ellpee at Bleecker Bob's. It worked -- for a long time, Matador promos were tough to find. (5) If the trafficking of promos really poses such a problem, the industry should stop issuing so damned many of them. On numerous trips to the record store (real record stores, not The Wall) I have found equal numbers of promos and shrinkwrapped commercial discs of certain releases in the racks. What's going on? This is sheer speculation, and bound to get a nasty response from someone on the list, but I have long suspected that promos are sometimes used as cash equivalents by the industry. How else would you explain the sudden appearance of, say, 20 unplayed promo copies of the just-released album by M2M in the used bins at the Princeton Record Exchange? Did 20 people who won a radio-station freebie by being the 12th caller all race down to cash in? Or is it more likely that somebody in the biz (a program director, say) got 25 copies, put 5 to legitimate use at the radio station, and sold the rest for personal gain? Did the radio station really need 25 copies? Probably not. Did the industry-type that handed over 25 copies realize this? I'm not saying categorically that promos = payola, but sometimes I wonder. (6) Lastly, no record company is forced to issue promos -- there is nothing absolutely essential about them. They are a commercial tool, that's all, not magic. Record companies send thousands of promos out into the market daily, which can only mean one thing: it pays. The industry should stop whining. Charles - -------- The Liz Phair Discography @ Never Said :: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/discographer/liz/ Consumed By Rock'n'Roll :: http://mywebpages.comcast.net/discographer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 02:02:26 -0800 (PST) From: "Supernova" Subject: The New Record...and then some. Well, I've always kept somewhat of a low profile on this list. I've had a few words back and forth with some people stolenlyricsheets but I'd like to take this opportunity to be a little bit more active and address some things that I feel I need to speak about. Some of this post is directed to *several people*, who shall remain nameless. I don't want to name them because it will get the bugmusic guy after you...and then, look out! Ouch! There's a big old opinionated bug biting my ass! Just kidding, mister bugmusic guy. Anyway - don't say I didn't warn you about reading it. In reply to Velocityboy3: Liked reading your post. As for the Pixies and "Head On"... I should have thought that through. I knew it was JMC but the version by the Pixies stays in my mind the most. I just like that one better, I guess. Sorry about that, guys! I rushed to post, and didn't quite get to thinking straight. In reply to LilRussianGirl: Reposting Liz's e-mail was a good idea. This is what I mean when I say that people need to move past this lo-fi vs. hi-fi crap. I moved past that a good while ago...actually, didn't even have to.It never was a problem. Exile was Exile. Whip-Smart was different than Exile, but it was Whip-Smart. The Egg was The Egg. Different than both, more pop and more produced. The new record is even MORE produced, but hey, I think it rocks, a lot. It's a constant progression from one place to another. Liz was here, then she was there, then she went over there, and now she's upstairs, hanging with the "in" crowd, and almost 75% of her old fanbase is complaining because they're still locked in the basement with nothing to do and nothing to look forward to, because Liz stole the weed and went upstairs. But what they don't realize is that the door is locked from the inside - and Liz can't get in. She's knocking...but they think it's the drone of the lo-fi "Fuck And Run" playing on the stereo and pay it no attention. Personally, I think Liz has been aware of everything that's been going on. Call me stupid or crazy, but when I heard her sing the following lines in "Its A War", "I was a mess in my open-eyed youth, I grew up thinking what's good for one opresses the other, it's my turn, it's my life: my way, mine, me. It made me crazy, I couldn't fight it... I couldn't wait to get away. It's a war, with the whole wide world. It's a war, with the boys and girls, and nothin's gonna change." I instantly thought that might have been eluding to *something*, but I'm not quite sure. She goes on in the song to mention drugs, sex and governement, so I can't say for definite what it may be about. But, I've always thought "Take A Look" was slightly more than a boyfriend type thing. The lyrics seem so versatile, that they could apply to a relationship, or all of the total crap that has been said about her in the recent past. I urge everyone to listen to "Take A Look" and try and see it that way. It may very well be the way she meant it, but then again - I'm not Liz, I don't know for sure. To Jase and anyone who's interested: Yes, "Why Can't I?" is ok for a single. Sounds Avril-ish, but it's easy to look over. I mean, come on guys... It's Liz. Let her be on the radio. The bottom line is that she sounds like she really likes singing the song, and apparently she's happy with how it turned out. I'm not praising the Matrix or anything (because I really can't stand Avril and the rest of their clients) but, they didn't do a bad job. Personally, I think "Extraordinary" would have been the best choice for a first single, because it hits harder, and as the album's opening track, it's great. The line that got me hooked on "Why Can't I?" was (and obviously will be edited for the single) "Here we go, we're at the beginning... We haven't fucked yet, but my head's spinning" On a side note: I played some of the tracks for my niece (she's 23 and shares many of my musical tastes, and some that I don't), and her response to "Why Can't I" (without revealing what she was listening to - the last thing she has heard from Liz was Supernova) was verbatim: "Oh my god! Is that Liz Phair?!" and I said "yes"... and then she went on to praise it. Now, she's not one for much radio-friendly pop, but she was digging it. I know that means nothing, but if it's appealing to someone who loved Exile and Whip-Smart without hearing the Egg...doesn't that say something? BTW - she also loved HWC and Extraordinary. Also, didn't mean to leave track 2 out of my review...I just for some reason forgot it. It's called "Scared" and it's awesome. Ballad type, sort of. Great song. Now... I'll get to my real point. Beware, I'm irritable! I'm tired of typing e-mail after e-mail of the same shit! To Mark J. Foxx: Thanks for posting about the clip at Supernova. No, really. Thank you. You single handedly drove my bandwidth up to over 2Gb in an hour. If I was ready for people to REFRESH the ENTIRE freaking site three hundred times a piece, I would have stated so. Thank you ever so much. You wanna pay the bill? Extraordinary. Indeed. To everyone else, the nameless persons... Does ANYONE realize how stupid it is to... 1) Ask for copies on a discussion list, for an album that doesn't even hit until June? 2) E-mail me directly and have the balls to plead your case on how you deserve a copy, not knowing exactly what I do for a living? I could be FBI. I could be a Capitol Records employee. Has anyone ever taken that into consideration? Do you KNOW what I do for a living? No, you don't. And in response to most of those: No. To the others: No, and bribery, of all things, won't work. In Addition - no - Liz doesn't owe you anything for waiting so long for a record. Fly out to L.A. and help her record it before you claim that one. I'm so TIRED of that argument! Guess you grew up on "the mean streets of Canada" like Avril, and everyone owes you. Did anyone stop to think at all that it's possible that LIZ or ANYONE from Capitol could be reading every digest, just to see if this kind of thing is getting around, waiting for the copying to take place? Maybe I'm just plain stupid, but I really think people should have a little more courtesy, not to mention common sense. If you e-mailed me to ask me more about the album (and not about getting a copy), then the previous statments were not directed to you. I'm happy to answer your questions about the album. I'm just not going to copy it. Just because Supernova is mp3 ridden (live - duh!) doesn't mean I'm in the habit of distributing music before it's released. I apologize for being hateful, but this really ticks me off that people don't use common sense. aaargghhh. I'm going to bed. /michael/ ============================= "My skin's getting clear, my hair is so bright... All you do is fuck me every day and night" -Liz, the Supergoddess. ============================= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 07:42:08 EST From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: little dear Hey: One of the articles talked about "Little Dear" being a song about Nicholas' reaction to seeing Liz date again after the divorce. I don't see it on the track list. Was that title maybe changed to "Mother is Mine" on the album? Now that we've seen a track list, do we know yet who produced which tracks? Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 09:33:54 -0500 From: ReallyHip@aol.com Subject: Re: The New Record...and then some. I wasn't replying to anyone specifically, when I said someone should post the whole song. Again, someone should. If you want to support an artist, go on tour. If you want to throw some money into the rapidly decaying music industry, be my guest. I only do both for artists I really respect. Like Liz. Michael, what does anyone care if Liz/Capitol is reading this? Who cares if you could be FBI? Prosecute me for 15.99! :) I'm sure Capitol is really shocked that people want to get music before it is officially released. :) - -Another Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 09:36:13 -0500 From: "Daaaaan Theman" Subject: extraordinary (again) So I heard the longer clip last night, and I love it! I like it even better than Take a Look. I feel stupid for posting that thing about how bad it was. This is so pathetic, but my cell phone has this recorder feature on it and I put it up to the computer speakers to record that clip and can't stop listening to it! It's so good!!! If anyone wants to trade anything for a burned copy of the new album, I have a lot of Liz stuff (vinyl, singles, promos, bootlegs). Or I could just pay for it (i'll pay a lot). Now that I've heard this much about it I definitely can't wait till the end of June. I know they keep selling it on ebay, but I don't have the internet and can't keep bidding on it. Please get back to me off-list. I have a feeling this album is going to be amazing, but in a different way than her early stuff. Back to work! - -dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 11:35:01 EST From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: Fwd: extraordinary - imo Return-path: From: TitleTK@aol.com Full-name: TitleTK Message-ID: <60.2f21c07c.2bb5d276@aol.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 11:29:42 EST Subject: Re: extraordinary - imo To: katsooo@msn.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 125 Okay, So I just listened to "extraordinary" and I'm inclined to agree with Mike Katsoulis -- it's pure pop. But let me go on record to say that I finally don't really care. The shock is over. Liz wasn't being ironic when she wrote "Shitloads of Money," that was total autobiography. I'm offended by the fact that Liz is suddenly reaching out to her fans. I bought Exile in Guyville the day it was released (boy am I old) and saw her in concert many times during the early years (which doesn't make me better than anyone else). At that time, and for most of the past ten years she was known as an enigma. No one really knew if she was a feminist, a satirist, or just a really brilliant musician. Now suddenly she tells Rolling Stone she "wants to sell some records" and suddenly she's checking out websites. Does this not seem suspect to anyone else? Let it be said, I love it . . . I love hearing what she has to say . . . but she always seemed much more interesting when we knew nothing about her. Everyone keeps saying we shouldn't expect another Guyville, but I do expect another one, which has nothing to do with lofi/hifi. Cannonball by The Breeders used 16 aural effects in just the first 10 seconds, but no one really accused Kim Deal of selling out, because it was a brilliant song, it rocked and it didn't matter if you were a punk or a pop kid -- you loved it. Now the rest of Phair's new album may be absolutely kick ass, with riffs and lyrics like I've never heard before -- I still haven't heard it so I don't know. But judging by both tracks I've heard, it's nothing I haven't heard before from other pop songs. Fuck and Run may be endless "drone" to some people, but it's incredibly unusual song writing. The song builds and builds to a climax that never plays off, it's edgy (in a good way), but more importantly it perks your ears up and makes you listen to it over and over again. Maybe (and I'm not being sarcastic) Extraordinary is doing something different with music that I can't put my finger on. I hope so. james ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 14:10:43 -0800 From: "Velocityboy3" Subject: Oops! My mistake. ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #74 ***********************************