From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V6 #66 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, March 22 2003 Volume 06 : Number 066 Today's Subjects: ----------------- pitchforkies [ReallyHip@aol.com] pitchforkies [TitleTK@aol.com] Re: pitchfork ["Daaaaan Theman" ] RE: pitchforkies ["INMAN, DAVID B" ] Re: support-system-digest V6 #65 [fallout@purdue.edu] Re: pitchforkies [ReallyHip@aol.com] c'mon, get happy ["dana p." ] conjecture [Craig King ] pitchfork in the gut [Dan MacDonald ] Liz the shock rocker ["Velocityboy3" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 02:09:40 -0500 From: ReallyHip@aol.com Subject: pitchforkies Dude. Why does anybody care? The woman's doing what she likes... and we'll get the demos and such via the internet to make our own interpretation of what the fourth Liz album should have been. If some don't like her new crap, they'll be in for a last ditch treat with the guyville reissue, while the rest of us give this new glitter girl a chance. Don't be scared. Just try to adapt to the situation once it is upon us. - -Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 08:39:35 EST From: TitleTK@aol.com Subject: pitchforkies Michael, . . . But you gotta admit this is a really tough thing to swallow. I mean we've been waiting for this album for so long . . . and even her most ardent fans are suggesting that we piece together what the album "should have been." I have nothing against a more mainstream move, or moving to LA (okay, I AM against it, but I know I can't stop anyone). Kim Deal moved to LA, and there was a time when Kim Deal and Tanya Donnelly were going to make a dance album together. The difference is Deal doesn't walk around spewing tired feminist jargon, and if I have a feeling that if the dance album came to be it would be the most original kick-ass dance album we ever heard. As for the new songs I've heard thus far, I don't hate them, they are kind of "nice," I suppose is the word, but they certainly don't bowl be over or kick my ass the way Liz used to write . . . even Supernova kicks ass as a mainstream rocker. I mean, I just can't support going to "the matrix" to have your songs engineered. I mean it is these people's job to write hits using "scientific formulas." That is just wrong. Now, I know I haven't listened to the new album yet, and I know this argument is getting tired, but the reason why Liz originally had such ardent fans is because of what her music was about, other than crossing so many genre's of blues, rock, punk, country, etc. I really believe she stood for something, her lyrics cut like a knife and her lyrics from the old days seemed to be in direct contradiction to what she is creating now. After all, she is the artist who once sang "I won't decorate my love." james ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 09:01:46 -0500 From: "Daaaaan Theman" Subject: Re: pitchfork I think that this article was based entirely on Ken Lee's interviews. Pitchfork has a reputatation for being retarded. They were stupid enough to report that R. Walt Vincent was an alias for Pete Yorn. I'm more worried about that Sound Opinions thing. I went to the website and the show wasn't up yet, but on the message board someone said they have a recording of the SxSW show and was looking for someone to host it at their site. I don't know the address, but it was in the e- mail from two days ago. dan _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 10:32:14 -0600 From: "INMAN, DAVID B" Subject: RE: pitchforkies From Rolling Stone: LIZ READIES "PHAIR" FOR JUNE LIZ PHAIR's first album in five years is due June 24th. The self-titled release includes five songs produced by MICHAEL PENN, four by the hitmaking MATRIX team (AVRIL LAVIGNE) and five by R. WALT VINCENT (PETE YORN). Phair says that while recording the new album, she grew more comfortable in front of the microphone. "I'm not as self-conscious as I used to be," she told Rolling Stone. "Somewhere along the way I got rid of a lot of my fear about singing, and I've really been working hard on developing my voice." - -----Original Message----- From: TitleTK@aol.com [mailto:TitleTK@aol.com] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:40 AM To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: pitchforkies Michael, . . . But you gotta admit this is a really tough thing to swallow. I mean we've been waiting for this album for so long . . . and even her most ardent fans are suggesting that we piece together what the album "should have been." I have nothing against a more mainstream move, or moving to LA (okay, I AM against it, but I know I can't stop anyone). Kim Deal moved to LA, and there was a time when Kim Deal and Tanya Donnelly were going to make a dance album together. The difference is Deal doesn't walk around spewing tired feminist jargon, and if I have a feeling that if the dance album came to be it would be the most original kick-ass dance album we ever heard. As for the new songs I've heard thus far, I don't hate them, they are kind of "nice," I suppose is the word, but they certainly don't bowl be over or kick my ass the way Liz used to write . . . even Supernova kicks ass as a mainstream rocker. I mean, I just can't support going to "the matrix" to have your songs engineered. I mean it is these people's job to write hits using "scientific formulas." That is just wrong. Now, I know I haven't listened to the new album yet, and I know this argument is getting tired, but the reason why Liz originally had such ardent fans is because of what her music was about, other than crossing so many genre's of blues, rock, punk, country, etc. I really believe she stood for something, her lyrics cut like a knife and her lyrics from the old days seemed to be in direct contradiction to what she is creating now. After all, she is the artist who once sang "I won't decorate my love." james ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 12:11:34 -0500 From: fallout@purdue.edu Subject: Re: support-system-digest V6 #65 > Liz Phair was quoted in pitchfork as saying: "... one of us ... one of us ... one of us." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 13:34:53 -0500 From: ReallyHip@aol.com Subject: Re: pitchforkies yeah, it is a bit hard to swallow... but just roll with it. When it comes out, decide. Anything else will just make you crazy. :) I do agree that her behavior and comments are making me terribly fearful... but I'll be able to sleep at night either way. Is anyone planning on going on multiple tour dates? - -Michael ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 10:40:56 -0800 From: "dana p." Subject: c'mon, get happy would it be wrong to say "white hot cum" makes me gag? paging dr. freud? no....? ok.... dp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 11:21:08 -0800 (PST) From: Craig King Subject: conjecture I still have faith in Liz and I'm not worried. All of the articles and all of this talk is just conjecture. I refuse to reserve judgement until I am able to hear the entire album and she starts the tour. I've come to the conclusion that I want to go into the first listen of the new album with a complete open mind, especially when it comes to the Matrix produced songs. If they are good, I'll call a spade a spade. If they are legitimately not good, then I will say so too. That goes for the rest of the album as well. I have faith in Liz though. I had reservations over spaceegg when it came out, but over time I have really come to appreciate that album. I have a feeling that it will be the same case with her new album. Even if it's not an instant gratification, I will refuse to dismiss it. Sometimes the greatness of some of my favorite albums were not realized until after multiple listens. All in all, I'm still extremely excited for June 24th and everything that follows. Rock on Liz!!!! \m/>.<\m/ Craig Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 20:54:47 -0500 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: pitchfork in the gut i think the fact that lots of the songs are "technically demos" is kind of reassuring. i'm still excited about the new album. at the same time - after reading that pitchfork article - with all the goodies that are promised to be on the re-release of exile in guyville, i think i might be even MORE excited for that! it might include girlysound demos???? HOW GREAT!!! dan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2003 22:52:31 -0800 From: "Velocityboy3" Subject: Liz the shock rocker I just couldn't resist chiming in w/a "few" remarks after reading all the Liz bashing. Again. Seemed to die down when Liz 1st message was posted. Let's see now, she is trying to shock us w/the title Hot White Cum and you're worried she'll get airplay? From the same girl who wrote "Fuck and Run", Flower, "you fuck like a volcano" from Supernova, etc., etc. And since when does the opinion of a couple of 2 bit critics matter? 1 writes a story that basically got it's info off Ken's interview w/Liz. Another writes this is Liz's major label debut? Huh? Technically maybe she was w/Matador but why was everybody trashing Gary Gersch when it got delayed, shelved, etc. And he also says everything is basically irrelevent after EIG. So I guess that means Whipsmart sucks too. And the Avril comparisions get a little tiring. So just because the Matrix wrote some songs she now is going to sound like her? Personally I wish she didn't use them either but I'm open minded enough to actually wait and hear them. No one even knows exactly what's on it, virtually no one has heard it yet it's been trashed into oblivion already. Heh at least wait until you've heard it 5,6 times and then if you don't like it fine. No one seems excited by Liz releasing some other songs thru the interenet but I sure as hell am. Anybody waiting for another EIG has got a long wait. She's quite a different person today than at that time. Relax everyone and be thankful she will at least tour if all else fails. And I won't even start w/the Sadaam's a terrorist stuff. Terrorist would be far down his list after murder, torture, etc. Same guy we supplied missiles to so he could fire chemical weapons at Iran in the mid 80's. I wish he was a friend like Saudi Arabia which every terrorist has a passport from, cuts off people's hands, heads and is 1 of the more brutal regimes around. And there are plently. Maybe we should take out Palestine if we want to rid ourselves of terrorists. And Iraq is Disneyland compared to North Korea. I hope they kill Sadaam dead but there are many, many more(plently who head countries) if we really are serious. China, Russia, Pakistan(yes them), Yemen, Jordan, Sudan, even Israel has done some questionable things. Whatever happened to Bin Laden. Haven't heard George mention him in many a moon. Sorry but it's the cynic in me. The same 1 who reads Halliburton is 1 of 4,5 companies hoping to make a killing by rebuilding the country. (And charging a pretty penny for it) Yes the same 1 Dick Cheney has such a cozy relationship with. Call me a contrarian but I don't feel any safer today with seemingly 2/3 of the world not liking us. OK I'll stop venting. Now back to our regularly scheduled Liz bashing. Bill in CT ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V6 #66 ***********************************