From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V5 #264 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, December 18 2002 Volume 05 : Number 264 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: i sit passively [fallout@purdue.edu] Liz content ["Daaaaan Theman" ] contro/raspy/hola gatito [Stephen Griffes ] liz controversy/blurbs and rants of a long-time list poster(or poser)!! [Dan MacDonald I don't mean to offend anyone . . . but Liz has meant everything to me > musically over the past 10 years and I just can't help the really intense > feelings I have for her music. Maybe the next album with be brilliant . . . > who knows? But I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back passively and watch > her shut me out of her music. > > james ... so, uh, just out of curiousity, because you seem really passionate and, I don't know, detemined, what is it that you plan to do, as opposed to sitting passively, to make her what you want? Bear in mind that writing to a minor e- mail digest will not keep her from shutting you out of her music. Me, I propose someone slides a bong through her mail slot. j ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:16:22 -0500 From: "Daaaaan Theman" Subject: Liz content So I saw "Cherish", and I really liked it. It had a very mid 90's "alternative" feel to it for some reason. My housemates watched part of it with me, and couldn't believe it just came out. Liz was really funny. I loved the part where she says "It's invite only honey", and puts one through the shredder. Was it me, or did she look really weird in those first two scenes? She looked like herself in the other ones, but for some reason she looked weird. I think her hair was too flat and against her face. Later on she looked great. I wonder if her album is ever coming out, but it is good news that she is self producing now. She probably thought the Michael Penn stuff wasn't her style. She did produce "Shitloads of Money" from wcse, and production wise I thought that song was the closest to her "old" style. I doubt that she will scrap all of those sessions though. WCSE was a hodgepodge of different producers from different sessions, so that is probably what this one will be like. Some songs produced by Michael Penn, Pete Yorn + that other guy, "The Matrix" (what a stupid name, and what's with the one guy who looks like a cross between Yanni and Kenny G?), and Liz. That's it for now, sorry for my rambling, I just had a lot of coffee. Dan _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:37:48 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Griffes Subject: contro/raspy/hola gatito > who knows? But I'll be damned if I'm going to sit back passively and watch > her shut me out of her music. i still dont see how any of that could constitute some huge (preplanned) controversy...the music world isnt freaking out. just a couple of internet fans are expressing concern. tho i can see how it is personal for you, so good luck with that. > I've seen the band Rasputina mentioned on here lately. What are > they all about? Are they heavy like Veruca Salt and L7 or kind of > punkish like Sleater Kinney? for the most part rasputina is pretty ethereal stuff. cellos. sometimes it's heavy (when the cellos are ampped). superfun stuff, but lots of people think it's "goth". check out Thanks for the Ether if you like ethereal and How We quit the forest if you like heavier poppy stuff. the new album is a pretty good mix of the two sounds. i got to see them perform a couple times this year and the live show isnt as cool...but the albums are all fantastic i just was at an anime store and they had a HELLO KITTY WAFFLE MAKER that made waffles in the shape of hello kitty's head. it was 60 dollars though--what the heck is up with that? you can buy a GOOD waffle maker for half that. they also had what appeared to be a hello kitty crock pot. and a wabbit with a plunger stucker to it's head (?) steve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 18:57:11 -0500 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: liz controversy/blurbs and rants of a long-time list poster(or poser)!! james wrote: >. The repetition of lyrics of "Never Said" is done for a very >specific purpose . . . it kind of always reminded me of Minor Threat in a >way. The repetitiveness builds and builds as though she is actually accusing >the listening. It's very powerful, and in my mind the only true "punk" song >of the 90's. that's really interesting...because i perceived the reps in "take a look" as exactly this. rather accusing etc.. like "okay you nosey fuckers, you care so much about my break up - fine - take a look! take a look! take a look! are you happy now? take a look! here it is! take a look!" - verbatim to what you said about 'never said' is how i feel about the repetition in take a look. i think it is very accusing and sarcastic in a way, and i think the reps are (at least i hope) as on purpose as the reps in Never Said. james wrote: >I always though of Liz as punk -- and thought that was the >general census among her fans. hmmm.. i always raise an eyebrow when i hear reviewers associate her so directly with "punk" music and even moreso - "punk" in general. i mean, no doubt some of her music is "punk-flavoured" (lyric, content, style - i don't mean she sounds like the sex pistols or X - and i don't think James was saying that either) but in that case - her music is just as much "country-flavoured". you can't deny the hints of punk in tunes like "Fuck and Run" and "Johnny Sunshine" - but there is also just as much a surge of country rooted in songs like "Help Me Mary", "Never Said", "Soap Star Joe" etc. hell - she even kinda-covers Johnny Cash himself in the girlysound demos. all the same - i don't see her as country any more than i see her as punk. i think i always thought of her as just plain old "real" rock music. not alternative, not punk or country - just good old guitar strumming rock and roll bliss with kick ass lyrics, incredible chords, and an incredibly imaginative and intelligent slant on the whole music mess. james wrote: >Anyway, I have nothing against mainstreams music, as long as I have an >alternative, but right now there is none. i have nothing against mainstream stuff either and i listen to lots of it. but it's funny because i've stopped listening to the radio and watching music videos because i think mainstream stuff is getting too much like sugar: really sweet and yummy - but too much will eventually make you sick to your stomach. i found myself diving back into the past a bit though. i've been playing Patti Smith's "Horses" album and wish i was a twenty year old when it came out. been listening to David Bowie, Cat Stevens, Crosby Stills and Nash, Simon and Garfunkel, Mamas and Papas - but for NOW-stuff, i am really getting into the new Peter Gabriel album UP. love it. he blows my mind. and the new Sinead album of traditional irish songs is fantastic. Mary Timony, Sarah Dougher, The Gossip, Merkury Burn and Quix-O-Tic, are just a few of the artists today who i LOVE listening to - just because they offer something so completely different. but i think there will always be an alternative no matter what. we just gotta dig - and when you dig for something and then strike gold - it makes the find all the sweeter. that's the only thing i miss in a weird way about the pre-internet days. stumbling upon a blurb in a small magazine about a forthcoming album or chancing across a surprise late-night television spot featuring your favorite band. it made it more exciting. mind you - i'm not complaining. but i kinda miss the frantic run to the VCR to make sure i got a blank tape on standby - my finger on the record button hoping i heard right - that liz phair or the breeders really will be "up next after the break". now - i can practically set my VCR a month and a half in advance after i get an email from a news group that does all the work for me, telling me exactly who, where, what, when and sometimes why. it's obviously more convenient - and i am not complaining at ALL - i love this! but no one has to work at it anymore. it takes a little bit of the romance out of it - does anyone agree? [and goddammit jase - you have the best music list on the net in my opinion!] anyway i think mainstream music of today (and the fast-food mentality many people have of music) is a product of this. everything is pre-packaged, plastic, ready-made from the tits to the pecs to the cheek-sucking to the songs themselves. the greatest commercial this year (possibly of the new millennium) is the one about the MP3 player or something - where the guy is in a fast-food type drive thru window and he orders the "combo" deal or something. and w/in seconds they grab the songs, toss them in a bag, he pays the window and that's that: He found his music, someone else pre-packaged it for him and lumped it in a "combo". talk about hitting the nail on the head. that's how music is right now - in my opinion - and i am convinced whoever made that commercial wanted to make a point and probably giggles everytime it airs. i know i do. i was flipping stations yesterday and they had a bunch of young teenage kids, mostly girls - and the VJs were asking the kids what they thought it takes to be "artist of the year". NUMBER ONE - was "you have to be hot". how sad is that? the "artist" of the year has to be "hot". artist. it's a sign of our times - but i feel your pain. although i think there will always be an alternative - and i don't think the alternative will ever weaken - it will only get stronger the more underground it goes - the sad thing is, i think there is a new generation of music lovers who are re-designing what it means to be a "fan" - and giving the whole scene a face lift. yeah.sorry about the rant. dan ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V5 #264 ************************************