From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V5 #190 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, September 25 2002 Volume 05 : Number 190 Today's Subjects: ----------------- thanks! ["dp" ] Re: support-system-digest V5 #189 [Sexililgurl@aol.com] Re: liz and all those producers... ["Ben Oliver" ] i'll be the cornflake girl [Athiena00@aol.com] jase's number one fan/oh and courtney love too [Athiena00@aol.com] All I have to say is... [Al Madrid ] in response to sherry's post ["Michael Honaker" ] Re: support-system-digest V5 #188 [Stephen Griffes ] wendy o williams [Dan MacDonald ] Re: All I have to say is... ["\[pitch a\] trent" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 23:1:34 -0700 From: "dp" Subject: thanks! hey: thanks for the info on mark; i know he went to school down here, so i'm sure that's how it all started. i shoulda put two and two together, duh.... anyone know what he's working on now? all these questions... oh, here's another one: anyone have any info on ken andrews of "ON"? dig him.... anyways, as far as the person who's so distraught with jase for bagging on liz, and anyone who might agree with this person, ummm he's been a staunch supporter of her for a long, long, long time. i think maybe he's just reached a level of disgust the way any normal human would. it's all cyclical. and as far as him jumping all over someone's shit for disagreeing with him, look, this is a discussion list. the words fly fast and furious and everyone's got a right to rebut. as many times as necessary. we're all just talkin'. (frankly i'm surprised he's never kicked me off this list for the way i've shot my mouth off in the past... amazing.) alot of it is just using skills of logic and argument to present a strong case. smart, articulate people get off on stuff like that. i don't get the charges of "negativity." i'm on another list--and i just totally blew up all over it about something someone said [this person made rude comments about someone's appearance (which i *fucking* hate), and the person in question could easily access the site and read them (!!!)]--and, christ, i guess if you don't talk about puppies and flowers all the time, oh my god, you are so "negative." and i also got blasted for using the "f-bomb." i laughed. i laughed hard because on THIS list, no one would ever call you on that, for obvious reasons. anyways, it blows me away how easily people just plain ignore a well-thought-out opinion just because it doesn't sound like it's coming out of the mouth of pat boone. ugh. and whoever said "the devil's concubine, j.lo," well, thanks, buddy. i broke my jaw on the way down to hitting the floor, laughing my ass off. as you can imagine, i now look completely ridiculous.... and i can't walk very well now either. great.... and if anyone knows why my posts are always run together, please tell me what i'm doing wrong. i don't send them that way; they're spaced for ease of reading, but they don't come up that way in the digest. it's driving me nuts. toodles,dp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 03:39:10 EDT From: Sexililgurl@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V5 #189 In a message dated 9/24/02 1:20:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: > Tori Amos is the only one who seems to come through--a new album every damn > do not forget mr. ani difranco. and her new cd just came out not to long ago. . . its to sad i cant afford it :( ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 09:37:09 -0400 From: "Ben Oliver" Subject: Re: liz and all those producers... However.....if they can make crappy people sound excellent in a technical sort of way, imagine what they can do to someone with talent. Let's not realllly forget, most music producers are button pushers in the studios...... ben - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jase" To: Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 5:46 PM Subject: Re: liz and all those producers... > Ben Oliver wrote: > >As for Liz, I have faith in her new albumn. If you look at it from this > >perspective, that the producers and engineers who make todays "pop hits" > >like avril, you must realize that they are very talented at what they do, > >and by producing a talent like avril, from nothing to the heights of radio > >and MTV stardom, puts them high on the list of new great producers, and if > >they are inteligent enough to know (or remember) who Liz is, and wants to > >work with her, they can't be all that bad. And also, producers and such > >dont usually have the option of who to produce, I know for a fact I would > >direct a sequel to feardotcom (worst movie ever made) if someone gave it to > >me tomorrow. > > They may be talented at what they do, but their talent lies in making the > artists they work with sound like everyone else on the radio. I just don't > want some watered-down, generic version of Liz. It's bad enough that she's > writing with Gary Clark, who, by all accounts, sounds like a hit doctor. > Was Diane Warren not available? > > As for the idea that they want to work with her, well, they're hired guns. > All those production teams are. They'll work with just about anyone as long > as they're getting paid to do so. That's their role. > > I doubt they turn away people the way, say, Brad Wood would. I can't see > him taking on a project his heart wasn't in, which is probably why I don't > see his name on as many records as I'd like to. > > I don't know. I just see these people being hired for a reason and I have a > feeling most of Liz's identity is going to be stripped from these tracks. > If they were hired to create something that sounds like a Liz Phair record, > why weren't these songs just done by Michael Penn, Pete Yorn or anyone else > Liz was working with prior to this? I think these people have been hired > either by Liz or the label itself to create something that sounds like > them, not something that sounds like Liz. > > And wasn't it said a while back that the label was going to be more > proactive in finding a producer for Liz, after telling her she couldn't > work with Brad Wood again? > > I wonder how many of the decisions regarding this record have been made by > Liz and how many have been made for her. > > To paraphrase something someone wrote in an e-mail to me off-list, I wish > more people could recognize the travesty unfolding before them. > > > Jase > > "And they royalty rate all the girls like you..." > - Courtney Love, "Awful" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:27:45 -0400 From: Athiena00@aol.com Subject: i'll be the cornflake girl not only does she release albums, but she tours. i cant wait until scarlet's walk!! i am very excited!! are you going to any of the shows?? have you ever met tori?? i want too!! i met her parents last year at one of the florida shows. *i'll be wearing your tattoo athiena > Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:33:42 EDT > From: Talula0474@aol.com > Subject: Re: support-system-digest V5 #188 > > Tori Amos is the only one who seems to come through--a new > album every damn > year. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 12:34:55 -0400 From: Athiena00@aol.com Subject: jase's number one fan/oh and courtney love too i adore courtney love, i adore nirvana, i think that the pixies are good. and jase is a quick witt. and i agree with everything he said. being a courtney love fan gets tiring after awhile. you have to constantly defend her and so you get defensive. it happens. and it also happens that there are lot of misinformed misogynist too. they hate her. and as for the whole heir thing. think about it. Priscilla runs Graceland and Yoko Ono owns John's things too. this is not a new concept. courntey is educated on the music business and she is not going to let her husbands name become a joke or a tool that makes money for everyone that is evil. *athena. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 14:15:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Al Madrid Subject: All I have to say is... ...Liz hurry up and release your album. I smell mutiny brewing for this list. Reminds me of when Noah or Moses or whoever that character was in the Bible, went up to the mountain to speak to some burning bush and when he came back down to his people, he found total chaos and the people had lost faith in him or something like that. Liz come on down from the rolling hills of Manhattan Beach and bring order back to your fans. :) My God, at least the list is active again. Peace, Al New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! http://sbc.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 17:25:17 -0400 From: "Michael Honaker" Subject: in response to sherry's post Sherry wrote > make the list more of a community and a friendlier place. For those of you that were wondering (if any) about what happened to the message board over at Supernova, the server crashed a good while ago and the message board went down with it. After reinstalling it, it works pretty well now. So, just incase anyone wants to come share in the fun... http://lizphair.vze.com/forums ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 18:42:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Stephen Griffes Subject: Re: support-system-digest V5 #188 wow lots of bitchin but at least this list is active again! this is jumpy, sorry > The Bangles (w/ Brad Wood producing - this is gonna be amazing) is that ever coming out?! it seems like we've been hearing bout that for years > and the new Bjork box set!!! i didn't hear about this. details my friend! I must say that I am bjork obsessed right now!! My mom bought me dancer in the dark...when i first saw that in theatres i thought it was fantastic but disturbing and couldn't watch it. after seeing it a few times I think it's one of the most beautiful films i've seen. I see it in a totally different light. brilliant. it got me back on a bjork kick...esp the Sugarcubes...who have got to be one of the most underrated "alt" bands of the 80s! im totally addicted to Life's Too Good, though I'm starting to pick up on the others much more than i did when I first got them. songs like "speed is the key" and "blue eyed pop" are just perfect to my ears. if you havent heard sugarcubes and you like bjork and b52s, check em out! so fun. > The Los Angeles-based songwriting/production team of > The Matrix consists of writer/producers Scott Spock, > Lauren Christy, and Graham Edwards. They've been Weird. they are called The Matrix? That's kind of creepy. But...only 3 songs. I have a lauren christy cd. the one with all the rabbits. I listened to it like twice. i don't remember what it sounds like. > three tracks on Liz Phair's upcoming album, a couple of it's so fascinating how they just mention her without saying "Indie queen" like everyone used to...I used to get annoyed by that label...but now im a little caught off guard to see her name is just randomly dropped like RIcky mardin's, xina agilera, and backstreet boys. wow, huh? > grant-lee phillips et al. in a coupla weeks; seeing them friday. i hear that john doe has been doing X songs with kristin taking on exene's part. i'll just piss myself. >>Tori Amos is the only one who seems to come through--a new album every damn year.<< What? No. she's been releasing material since 1989 but it's been more or less every other year (which is typical for any successful major label artist). She put out a cover album last year and she's putting out an album this year, but that's the only time in a career that's spanned over a decade that she's done "a new album every damn year" not that i care...i could care less how often she puts out music. it is important though that you realize that it probably isnt Tori making the decisions about how often she gets to put out records. artists who DO often release stuff on an annual basis (melissa ferrick, ani difranco, kristin hersh)...are different stories. but they probably have much more control over their careers than Tori Amos or Liz Phair. Take it easy on liz...get pissed off at the music industry, not the artists who are trying to wrestle with the major label corporations (whether they are winning like it seems tori always does or whether they are giving in like we think liz might be doing). I got to see Rose Polenzani (my favorite folkie!) perform at my friend Yael's house last night. it was actually in a Quaker church...a beautiful experience, really. Check her out and hear what you are missing. www.rosepolenzani.com k. Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 20:44:07 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: wendy o williams i wish liz's next album would sound like wendy o' williams. IJWGA. dan. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 19:45:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "\[pitch a\] trent" Subject: Re: All I have to say is... all this we pray....AMEN! Al Madrid wrote:...Liz hurry up and release your album. I smell mutiny brewing for this list. Reminds me of when Noah or Moses or whoever that character was in the Bible, went up to the mountain to speak to some burning bush and when he came back down to his people, he found total chaos and the people had lost faith in him or something like that. Liz come on down from the rolling hills of Manhattan Beach and bring order back to your fans. :) My God, at least the list is active again. Peace, Al - ---- La Disco A Besoin De Vous Deine Disko Braucht Dich Disuko Ha Anata Wo Matteiru Tu Discoteca Te Necesita Your Disco Needs You -- Kylie Minogue New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo! ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V5 #190 ************************************