From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V5 #51 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Sunday, March 10 2002 Volume 05 : Number 051 Today's Subjects: ----------------- let's get real ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] sheryl [Dan MacDonald ] alanis and eels ["christine m." ] Re: alanis and eels [AWeiss4338@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:14:47 -0500 From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: let's get real de-lurking to once again stir the shit... >As for Britney and Christina, they present a constant parade of fleshy > >goodies with everything they package, it's an inherent part of their > >character. >They're socially acceptable pathways of enjoying pedophilia without >the >jail and such. That's why its so creepy, and exploitive, and >wrong. Creepy, exploitive and wrong? Sex has been used since the dawn of time to sell and manipulate. It what motivates us as human being to get out bed in the morning (in the most primitive subconscious way) besides the fact you have to pay your bills. There is absoultely nothing wrong with Liz, Sheryl, Christinia or Britney showing some skin or striking a seductive pose. Just because Liz and Sheryl are older and more wise(?) than their nubile younger counterparts (no comparison musically just comparing for comparisons sake) doesn't mean it's more 'right' or 'wrong'. Yes Christina and Britney are most definately 'lolita' figures for countless men around the world (myself included). And what's wrong with that? Elvis swung his hips, the Beatles made millions of young teen girls (s)cream their pants off and the list goes on and on. >For some reason, when I see Sheryl with her ass cheek >hanging out of hotpants, the first words that come to >mind aren't serious artist. If anything it >marginalizes her artistry. So a photo spread changes your mind? How shallow can you be? Get real. Just because an artist does something outside of your pre-concieved idea of how they should express themselves, they are less in your mind. That's not right in my book. So pee-wee herman gets caught jacking off in a theater..make him less funny? I didn't think so. So James Hetfield goes in to re-hab...less of a guitar player? Nope...still kicks ass. I personally am glad to see Sheryl or anyone that wants to express themselves do what they want to. >I have to agree that the only thing worse than >flaunting your ass-ets to push your music is to be >hypocrytical about it. The fact that Sheryl Crow even >interviewed with that magazine, much less did a >photospread for it, makes me question her integrity. Now the hypcrosity part I can agree with. For Sheryl to say that was pretty stupid! Don't point fingers when you're doing it yourself Sheryl! DarkSide oftheMoon "I didn't think it was possible, but this both sucks and blows." Bart Simpson _________________________________________________________________ Join the worlds largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:40:07 -0500 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: sheryl my stupid, flu-medicine induced 2 cents on the whole subject of T&A - I think it's all just skin. Yes some girls are being exploited, and yes some truly are doing it to show their empowerment (ie Madonna - look what she did for, well - basically - everything - with her SEX book and the ways she depicted herself, being raped in a school gym, etc) - of course, Sheryl crow on the cover of STUFF mag is not even in the same calibre as the SEX book, but whatever - we do have to remember that even Christina Malaria and Britney Beers as well as Sheryl are all posing for these pics on their own free will, whether or not they are valid music artists is perhaps another question (certainly the fact that they pose for these pictures does not make them any more talented than they already are) - I personally do like Sheryl Crow - but it doesn't matter. If she wants to pose with her bum cheeks hanging out - that's cool in my book - and if Britney wants to show some skin whenever she does...anything - fine - so be it. It's weird the way this stuff works in circles though. I remember reading about how Annette Funicello (sp?) from the Mickey Mouse Club was in trouble for wearing a bikini in her beach blanket bingo movies - and how Barbara Eden was not allowed to show her belly button in I Dream Of Jeanie - the approach they were taking was "I am a woman, how dare you tell me what I can and cannot show...!" - but now, we are saying these girls are being exploited for wearing these outfits. The very outfits women fought to wear back in the 60's and 70's. Maybe they do pick out their own outfits, maybe they don't - but regardless - - they choose to wear them and be photographed in them. Shit - the same goes for boy bands or whatever you want to call them. It's pop music - it's plastic and superficial - "Justin is so cute" "AJ is so hot.." etc...if it was me up there shaking my scrawny ass to some bass the girls would run away screaming. I'm on nyquil right now. It's just the public who make it a big deal - and I think Sheryl Crow did sound like an idiot, bitching about all the girls who pose in skimpy outfits, then do it herself - I mean, EVERYONE does it - because it really shouldn't be a big deal. I don't see why it has to be knocked. We shouldn't be a prudish people anymore. Big tits don't make a great song - and they might work for Britney right now, but they're going to sag one day with all the other tits in the world and Nsync are going to get beer bellies and love handles and that could spell the end of it - answering the question of whether or not they are valid musicians. But shit - deep down - EVERYONE does it - it shouldn't be a big deal. Look at Liz Phair's "PAGE 4" (or whatever) ads - where she was in those skimpy undies. Or shit - BJORK - she's full-on topless in her video for Pagan Poetry - and in her newest video Cocoon - she's FULL FRONTAL naked. Cyndi Lauper is nude in one of her videos, Lil' Kim, Foxy Brown, D'arcy from Smashing Pumpkins, Imogen Heap, Martina (w/ Tricky), even Juliana Hatfield, PJ Harvey, Courtney Love and Liz herself have admitted to showing their boobs here and there - and all have worn their share of skimpy clothes. But wait - it's empowering when these girls do it, right? It's no big deal with them - why? It could be because it is in a more artistic context - but come on - someone on here said "skimpy clothes are skimpy clothes" or something like that. So it is degrading when a pop star does it, but it is empowering when an alterna-girl does it? Or it could be they just aren't in the public eye as much. Who knows. Regardless - T&A are just a part of someone's body - I think it is hilarious that people can actually base their careers around certain body parts - but hey - kudos to the entrepreneurs. And again - I'm not trying to start any wars or continue a big debate - I just wanted to pop in and say - hell - it's just some skin and it works both ways. Britney Spears is 21 years old and Sheryl Crow is pushing 40 - I think they both look pretty damn good. I'd just like to say - "Tits can be fun." and so can Nyquil. Goodnight. Dan. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:29:59 -0600 From: "christine m." Subject: alanis and eels Has anyone gotten the new Alanis CD yet, and how is it? Is anyone here into the eels as much as I am? They are also putting out a new CD in the next week or two, plus they are touring! I have liked these guys for quite a while, and have already bought my tickets for their chicago concert. christine - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:53:56 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: alanis and eels In a message dated 3/9/2002 10:30:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, nach1120@hotmail.com writes: > Has anyone gotten the new Alanis CD yet, and how is it? It's great. Love it. Her best yet, which is hard to follow after JLP and SFIJ. but she does. Andrea ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V5 #51 ***********************************