From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V4 #308 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, December 5 2001 Volume 04 : Number 308 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: The Only Thread We've Got... ["Michael Worrell" ] Wilco (NLC) [Jase ] Top 10 of 2001 [Dermich@aol.com] My List (insert fanfare here) ["YOU- KNOW-WHO" ] Re: My List (insert fanfare here) [ReallyHip@aol.com] Re: The Whole Icon Thing and the Gap ["Jeff Doak" ] Do you feel threatened? [Moe ] Records of the year ["Chris DeLisle" ] this list is jumpin [Dan MacDonald ] Year of the Old Bastard [Matt Tilden ] commercials don't suck [Erin Cashel ] be nice [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Re: be nice [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] Re: when an artist keeps their mouth shut....what is that, a mime? [Amber] ps [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] disses and hisses [RocketBoyD@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 02:38:40 -0500 From: "Michael Worrell" Subject: Re: The Only Thread We've Got... OK, so this is an omnibus response: Dermich@aol.com, enh. I just hadn't ever heard a peep from anyone on several lists I'm on about "Sting sux!!!!" Bowie fans are, by definition, out there. There's probably one or two of them that would criticize him for not committing ritual suicide after the Ziggy Stardust era, or something. OK, so maybe I'm wrong. Just never hear anything about. Go Sting, if he can sell his tunes. "Poofter pop" was chosen for alliterative value. I couldn't think of anything else that would work. And yes, it would be...shall we say "interesting" to have a younger Liz Phair as a girlfriend. "Take me home and make me like it? OK." Gah to L7. Standingsixfeet1@aol.com, bleh. You wanted a discussion, well, I think you've certainly gotten one. Hee hee. Lemme ask a question---you've got a girl who by all evidence seems to be a good one, and whose songs are written from a woman's perspective being right happy about guys. Now, I suppose that it's not too hard to transpose one's self into her place and have some guy who dreams of a guy whose kisses are as wicked as an F-16[1] , but uh...how are you justifying that? Maybe ECP "speaks" for that guy in some way, but uh...it's not holding up from my view. Go like...get Husker Du. However, count me as seriously doubting that one's choice of sexual orientation has anything to do with liking Liz Phair. You didn't offend me. That's actually rather hard to do, and a 'phag Phan' [2] thread probably isn't going to cross the line necessary to do so. Stop apologizing for offending people. Give 'em your take on something, and if they don't like it, eff 'em. Even though some opinions are worth more than others, that doesn't change the equal right to have one. :P Steve Rhodes srhodes@well.com, I agree. It would also be better if we didn't have to guard our skies with interceptors and waste time & money over in a worthless Central Asian country that probably will wind up hating us before this is over, but there's that darn reality again. gapsucks.org changed me from being neutral on The Gap, Inc., into a supporter of the company. I'm sorry---no, wait, I'm not. Anybody who cheers over that juvenile crap in Seattle a while back ought to be dragged out and beaten. Nobody's done that to Islamics here, and it doesn't appear to ever be likely, so perhaps we can go get even for Seattle. What are these bad labor practices, failing to pay $15.00/hour with full benefits for someone sewing khakis? Aw, darn. CEO Don Fisher must obviously be a good man if he drops his donations in the GOP coffers. See, I'm funny like that---a Liz Phair fan who happens to be a red-blooded Richard Nixon Republican, who's been cheering for the Party over half his life. I doubt you meant your remark as a compliment to Fisher, but I'll take it as one. And more power to him; we'll need someone to replace Enron.[3] On Neil Young, I'll paraphrase Lynyrd Skynyrd: "A Southern man don't need him around, anyhow..." Moving to Easter wcseliz@yahoo.com, if you came to us looking for a happy pill, well, I think the prescription this list gives is to hand you a pair of 12-gauge shotgun shells, with the instructions "Fire two of these and call the coroner in the morning". I'll bite on George Harrison, though. He's my favorite Beatle, and the only thing I hold against him is that Indian mess. I hope the Man upstairs looks favorably upon George when he gets in for the hearing. If it makes you happy, I went out and bought the last copy of "All Things Must Pass" from the local Super Wal-Mart. Good album, so far. carma@WellsFargo.COM, you've got to love the California Raisins. Quit sweating the consumer culture. It's one of the things that we've got over the Islamofascists who'd rather drag us kicking and screaming into the 8th century. Everything's a billboard, so sign a contract for personal clothing rights today. I'm with you more than you might think; I'm not crazy about commercials (the reason I prefer National Public Radio...), but there are stylish and nifty commercials made every day. Jase can tell you more on this, if he's still able to access the Internet, but tours are money losers, period---unless you're like someone who can command a hundred bucks or more a ticket. Jeff Doak writes in, and we thank him for his support. I agree with you; I'd prefer that entertainment figures do more, well, entertaining, and less proselytizing. Your second paragraph is a nifty little summation of the issue. My old nemesis Andrea Weiss (Oh, by the way, NEENER NEENER, WE GOT THE WHITE HOUSE) writes in with her de rigeur denunciation of homophobia. Andrea, Andrea...have ye not learned from Camille Paglia or Andrew Sullivan? Yelling 'homophobe' every time someone doesn't express slavish devotion to you and your kind is getting old. If I were to say to you that "I don't like Ellen DeGeneres; she's ugly and she's not funny", you'd probably denounce me for hating homosexuals. But the problem is that that particular attribute never enters into the equation. She can't do the job of making me laugh, so she's no good in my book. Doesn't mean I want her, or Melissa Etheridge, or like...uh...Joan Jett, or Sophie Ward (oh, _WHY_...somebody must rescue her; England, your duty is clear!), or like...anyone else of that ilk particularly dead, but I'm under no obligation to like them, either. Similarly, I'll insult them as I see fit to or not to do. I wish everyone in rock would keep their mouths shut about who they sleep with. That would do more to create fresh air than anything else. Since I've recently promoted Liz Phair to my favorite singer, we'll use her for your hypothetical. The answer is simple: I'd find a new favorite singer. From time to time, I judge my favorites on the total package. Want a mental picture? Cue my words from Robert DeNiro's lips in "Casino" where he explains that Joe Bob Briggs is fired. stace, who's being defensive? I'm expressing an opinion. Andrea Weiss gets sick over the fact that someone thinks differently from her, because she's got the One True Thought Pattern (and I thought I did, darn...I want a refund). I dunno about you or Liz Phair, but I'd sure take a strong dislike to being an icon of a movement I had nothing in common with. Anyways. Michael [1] As far as I'm concerned, it's F-16. [2] Who came up with this remark? It dates back to either 1998 or 1999. If you're the person, holler! [3] You idiots! You're making us non-centralized market types look bad. "You think you know what I'm doing, so obviously you don't."---Aeon Flux ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 04:20:49 -0500 From: Jase Subject: Re: The Only Thread We've Got... Michael wrote: >I'm with you more than you might think; I'm not crazy about commercials (the >reason I prefer National Public Radio...), but there are stylish and nifty >commercials made every day. Jase can tell you more on this, if he's still >able to access the Internet, but tours are money losers, period---unless >you're like someone who can command a hundred bucks or more a ticket. I'm still around; @home may be pretty much dead and gone, but my cable provider has moved all of its subscribers over to their own network now. Besides, when all else fails, I have internet access at work. I've just been keeping quiet because I haven't really had much to say. Still don't, really, for that matter, but anyway... Not all tours are money-losers. There are some bands, like Sleater-Kinney and Guided By Voices, who at least break even on the road, or make a modest profit. There are a lot of factors that come into play: the size of the venues they play, the percentage of tickets sold, the ticket prices the band can command, if they are getting any tour support from their label, and how the band controls its tour expenses. Those willing to tour in a van, without any guitar techs or roadies, have less people on their payroll and stand a better chance of seeing some money. Of course, they also need to be willing to work harder to earn it. Artists like Kristin Hersh also have the right idea. She has some exclusive releases that are only available at her shows, like the _Murder, Misery and then Goodnight_ disc or a 2-CD live album of one of her 1998 solo acoustic sets. I remember when she played Toronto this past summer being awed by how many shirts and CDs she sold after the show, while waiting in a long line to make my own purchases. My guess is that she sold at least $1500 worth of merchandise that night, perhaps even double that. If she does that well at each show and keeps her touring expenses to a minimum, it's safe to assume she at least breaks even on the road. If Liz were to try something similar, say with an official release of _Girly Sound_ only available at her shows, she'd probably see much the same result. It's the bands who tour outside their means and who are unwilling to slum it who ultimately need to rely on tour support from their labels, which makes the wait for any royalties even longer, since it's one more expense that needs to be recouped before they see any money from the sales of their albums. I'd elaborate more, but I know this topic has been discussed extensively in the past; I'm not sure how many people are still interested in it at this point. Cheers, Jase NP: Kristin Hersh, _Sunny Border Blue_ (my pick for album of the year) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 05:10:48 -0500 From: Jase Subject: Wilco (NLC) No real Liz content here, apart from the Leroy Bach connection, but here's a story about Wilco from the Billboard site, since I know there are a few fans here apart from myself. Wilco Signs With Nonesuch Chicago rock outfit Wilco has signed with Nonesuch Records for the release of its fourth album, "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot." While details of the deal will be announced sometime next week, Nonesuch is eyeing an April 2002 release for the set, according to a source close the group. Wilco had released three alt-country leaning albums on Reprise before the label rejected the more experimental pop leanings of "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot." Sources confirm that executives at the Warner label had asked the band to make changes to the album -- at one point going as far to suggest that frontman Jeff Tweedy find an outside songwriter to partner with - -- but the band balked and was able to negotiate out of its contract. Wilco is said to have been courted by more than 30 labels before settling on Nonesuch, which, ironically, is also under the Warner Music Group umbrella. "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot" is currently available as an audio stream on Wilco's official Web site. Nonesuch has earned a reputation for being an artist-friendly label and is home to a diverse roster, ranging from composers Steve Reich and Philip Glass to singer/songwriter Emmylou Harris and freewheeling Brazilian artist/activist Caetano Veloso. The signing comes near the end of what has been a rocky year for the Wilco. In addition to its label difficulties, the group's lineup has undergone a massive retooling. Last winter, Tweedy replaced original drummer Ken Coomer with the more versatile and atmospheric Glenn Kotche, and within weeks of splitting from Reprise, multi-instrumentalist Jay Bennett left the band to pursue a solo career. Bennett is credited with much of the Big Star-like pop flourishes of 1999's "Summerteeth," but is said to have played a minor role on "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot." Longtime contributor Leroy Bach has now taken over as a full-time multi-instrumentalist. "Yankee Hotel Foxtrot," mixed by indie rock veteran Jim O'Rourke, finds the band further expanding its boundaries, this time focusing more on the tension in Tweedy's voice amid the spare, '60s psychedelic influence of tracks like "I Am Trying to Break Your Heart" and "I'm the Man Who Loves You." As previously reported, the sessions for the album were filmed for a documentary by Los Angeles filmmaker/photographer Sam Jones. The film is expected to begin screening early next year. Wilco wraps a North American tour Dec. 8 in Denver, and has also confirmed an appearance at the Los Angeles edition of the All Tomorrow's Parties festival, set for March 15-17, 2002. - -- Todd Martens, L.A. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:50:35 EST From: Dermich@aol.com Subject: Top 10 of 2001 My list for the year, top to bottom: 1. Wes Cunningham - Pollyanna 2. Tweaker - The Attraction to All Things Uncertain 3. Garbage - Beautifulgarbage 4. Ex.Order - War Within Breath 5. Season to Risk - The Shattering 6. Plaid - Double Figure 7. The Donnas - The Donnas Turn 21 8. Tool - Lateralus 9. Tricky - Blowback 10. New Order - Get Ready ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 00:22:10 +0800 From: "YOU- KNOW-WHO" Subject: My List (insert fanfare here) The World Famous Best Of The Year Top Ten List: 01. Pete Yorn musicforthemorningafter 02. Leona Naess I Tried To Rock You But You Only Roll 03. Tori Amos Strange Little Girls 04. Garbage beautifulgarbage 05. Ryan Adams Gold 06. Bjvrk Vespertine 07. Gorillaz Gorillaz 08. The Strokes Is This It? 09. Radiohead Amnesiac 10. Heather Nova South (tie) Rufus Wainwright Poses (tie) honorable mention: Hope Sandoval and the Warm Inventions Bavarian Fruit Bread India.Arie Acoustic Soul Britney Spears Britney Kylie Minogue Fever The Go-Gos God Bless The Go-Gos Sum 41 All Killer, No Filler Daft Punk Discovery Original Soundtrack Moulin Rouge Original Soundtrack Queer As Folk anticipated cds for 2002: Liz Phair ANYTHING!!! Nine Inch Nails And All That Could Have Been No Doubt Rock Steady The Djali Zwan Unknown - -- "I really really love Christ, but I'm not a Christian." -Tori Amos _______________________________________________ Sign-up for your own FREE Personalized E-mail at Mail.com 1 cent a minute calls anywhere in the U.S.! http://www.getpennytalk.com/cgi-bin/adforward.cgi?p_key=RG9853KJ&url=http://www.getpennytalk.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 11:41:50 EST From: ReallyHip@aol.com Subject: Re: My List (insert fanfare here) 2002 should be killer. New NIN, new Liz, another new Tori this spring, and maybe, just maybe the Ani DiFranco album we've been waiting for since Little Plastic Castle. : ) None of this Revelling/Reckoning crap. - -Michael "Rufus Wainwright signed my sisters maxi pad" Gehrig "When in the course of human events it becomes neccessary to slap you like a bitch..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 14:47:07 -0500 From: "Jeff Doak" Subject: Re: The Whole Icon Thing and the Gap >I wish everyone who is gay or lesbian >in rock would come out, what a breath >of fresh air that would be. Why? I understand relating to artists, but why everyone? Why would that be a breath of fresh air? How would that make music better? >you make the mistake of assuming that >all queer music listeners only listen >to the music because its by gays Sorry. That was not my intent. That is a feeling I got from a few of the posts, and the comment was directed more towards those. See my previous comment above. >But how would you deal with it if you >didn't like gay people and then your >favorite singer came out. How would you >feel then. As I said before, I don't dislike gay people. If, for example, Dave Mustaine said he was gay, I would not like it, however, I would continue to listen to, buy, and anticipate new recordings. Queen was an incredible band, with brilliant musicians - Freddy being gay was irrelevant. I was saddened by his death, as the new music has come to an end. >don't be so defensive of heterosexual-kind This wasn't so much a defense for heterosexuals, as a question as to why there aren't enough gays in the industry. Obviously, I missed the point about identifying with artists because I don't listen to music in that way. I can't think of any artists that I really identify with based on lyrical substance or their personal lives. It's almost a purely musical thing - if the music sucks, it doesn't matter what the lyrics say. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 21:14:34 +0100 From: Moe Subject: Do you feel threatened? Jeff Doak: >Although a lot of you think it's OK to be gay, I think it's not, How can it be "not ok"? I don't get it. Some people are gay because... they are. Why are you straight? There is no "ok" or "not ok" in there, it's just the way it is. To me, it's like saying "I think it's not ok to be black or it's not ok to be white", it does not make more sense. Moe - annoyed by homophobia, like Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 15:43:45 -0500 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: Records of the year What a crappy year for releases. Unless my memory is lacking, the best releases so far this year have been: Tenacious D -- Tenacious D Spiritualized -- Let It Come Down Radiohead -- I Might Be Wrong EP, Amnesiac If I had an honorable mention, i'd mention Leona Naess' album. She's not awesome, yet, but both of her albums are pretty damn good. The biggest disappointment for me this year would be the absence of a few bands' releases(Liz, Beck, S-K (though i know they deserve a break)), and the biggest disappointment that was released was Bjork's "Vespertine" record. I don't get it. I loved all of her solo albums prior to this one, but this one's actually annoying at times. i'm curious to know what i've missed out on... chris deLisle ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:55:49 -0500 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: this list is jumpin A little something I just couldn't help but poke at - even if only for a MOMENT - humour me here. JEFF WROTE: >It makes me sick, and disappointed, that people look for some kind of gay >connection to buy an album. Who cares? Although a lot of you think it's OK >to be gay, I think it's not, but it doesn't influence my decision to buy a >record. If the music is good, then it's good and it's worth buying. I >don't buy album just because I think the singer is hot. I think Jennifer >Lopez is hot, and an OK actress, but would never spend a dime on that crap >she calls music. So I don't understand why anyone would buy a record just >because a member is gay, or has a gay connection. What if the music sucks? Well - apart from your homophobic SLANT on the entire thing - I agree with you. However: JEFF ALSO WROTE: >People these days seem to have a problem with being >theirselves, GEE?? I wonder WHY!?!? Read the first quote of yours I re-posted and then read the second one - and tell me if maybe ANY reason comes to mind why some people seem to have a "problem" with being "themselves"... Maybe because certain people seem to have a problem with PEOPLE BEING THEMSELVES, or more specific in point - people have a problem with others being gay, because that really is the bottom line here isn't it? I am not going to get into this on this list the way I would like to - and if you want to get into it - please feel free to email me personally Jeff, just keep it off this list - but YOU have no reason to think it is NOT OK to be gay if you think that people have a problem with being themselves. The fact that both of these sentences came from the same post is a hilarious contradiction. I know you have your opinion - people have the right to be mis-informed and homophobic if they want to be - but if you are going to post this stuff on the list of my favorite artist - you better damn well expect a rather pissed off response, and rightfully so - because when you say you do not think it is okay for people to be gay - you are saying that it is not okay for me to be who I am, and I don't tolerate that bullshit, maybe in highschool - but not when I am 24 years old - this is baby-shit-grade-school talk and I cannot let it go by without being highlighted for what it is. That's all I have to say about that, because there is nothing more to say. Michael wrote: >Could it be that those people want to imagine themselves as hip, >with-it, cool, and better than other people? Perhaps so, and they get around >to defining certain artists as only accessible to "them", and that nobody >would like those artists unless they were one of "them"? Perhaps so, >especially when you take into consideration the oft-repeated agenda that >everyone on the planet is secretly "them", if only they would not deny their >"true" desires. Yeah, right. That and ninety-nine cents buys a gallon of 87 >octane gasoline in some States. I think your biggest problem here is the fact that you are continuously using the word "THEM" and "THEY" - which is exactly what you were bitching about gay people doing in the first place, with the whole "she's one of us" thing. Maybe if everyone would quit thinking of it as STRAIGHTS and GAYS none of this bullshit would be going on. I agree with lots of the people - including you Michael and Jeff - with the fact that it is kind of silly to like an artist because they are gay or gay friendly. So what? They could suck completely music-wise, regardless of their politics. Or a gay-basher could write a very kick-ass, cool song. Talent is talent. There is no denying that. Shit - it really sucks that this big "GAYS AGAINST STRAIGHTS" war has seemed to have broken out on this list. I could care less if someone is gay or straight - when it comes to my favorite singers - I truly don't give a shit. Lots of my favorite singers are straight - probably the majority of them, but in all honesty, I never really sat down with a pen and paper and said "Let's see...does Beck fuck boys, or girls?" I have no idea and I don't care - but his music kicks ass, I know that much and that's ALL i need to know. I am not claiming to be open-minded or enlightened because of this, nor am I claiming this to be a "hip" or "modern" attitude about music - it's just a simple fact. And yes - some of my favorites are gay and some might even be gay-activists - but again - I don't think I would ever buy an album for this reason alone. Of course - if all of a sudden I found out someone like Matthew Sweet was a big gay activist - I'd think - "Cool...he's a part of the fight that I am a part of" and YES - it would move him up a notch or two in my opinion of him knowing that I can now appreciate a side of him that I did not know about before. It would not affect how I feel towards his music. I wouldn't think "Gee..now that I know he is a gay activist - I think he plays a better guitar than before, when I didn't know what he was.." But Matthew Sweet is a good example because I know absolutely NOTHING about his sexual orientation - he could be a gay basher for all I know - and regardless of the fact that I am gay and have had a steady boyfriend for the last few years - I still think "GIRLFRIEND" is one of the most kick-ass songs ever written and I can STILL relate to it. Gay or straight - we all have one thing in common. We think Liz Phair is kick-ass and amazing and great and beautiful and we can ALL relate to her because we are all fans - none of us can relate MORE than the other because one is female and the other is male or one is gay and the other is straight or one is an activist and the other is a homophobe. We all love Liz - so how bout we focus on that and what in the world she could possibly be doing. Again - sorry if I stretch this out any further, it's silly and we are all better than this dumb thread, Dan. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 14:43:27 -0800 (PST) From: Matt Tilden Subject: Year of the Old Bastard This year the geezers of rock reclaimed some of their territory. 1. Joe Strummer - Global a Go-Go 2. Bob Dylan - Love and Theft 3. Weezer - Weezer 4. Mick Jagger - Goddess in the Doorway 5. Pete Townshend - Scoop 3 6. Iggy Pop - Beat 'em Up 7. Paul McCartney - Driving Rain 8. Tori Amos - Strange Little Girls 9. Stone Temple Pilots - Shangri-La Dee Da 10. Ozzy Osbourne - Down to Earth Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 17:08:00 -0800 (PST) From: Erin Cashel Subject: commercials don't suck I love commercials. In fact, I think they're pretty much the only reason I watch tv (except for Alias... I hate to admit it, but I'm hopelessly hooked to that show). Between the new gap commercials with Liz adn other cool people, that new pepsi commercial with Barry fucking Bostwick!!! That one kicks so much ass. I just wish they had a commercial channel so I wouldn't be bothered to have to actually watch tv. Yikes! Back to lurking, Erin Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 20:40:02 EST From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: be nice In a message dated 12/4/01 12:21:40 AM Central Standard Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << No, you're not "open-minded", whatever that claptrap and ridiculous phrase is supposed to mean nowadays. It simply means that you're not going to be constrained by a vocal minority's attempts to ensnare artists for their own movement. >> im glad we agree about many thngs that i read in your post, but there is a thing called "respect" and you definately DO NOT have any. who are you to tell me that i am not "open-minded"? all i have to say, is how the fuck would you know? i really hate it when people on lists pretend to be God. they take an innocent, straightforward post that did not contain anything derogatory to any of the sexes, and made a mindlessly rude and uncalled for comment about it that would DEFINATELY make the writer upset. and you know what? you really were successful at accomplishing that. do me and the rest of the list a favor and never post again. this list doesnt deserve people like you telling them what they are or arent, cus honestly, you have no fucking clue mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 21:57:39 EST From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: Re: be nice I'd like to say that I've read any of what ya'll are arguing about, but I'd rather just say what my brother in law always says during times of conflict: "Happy Thoughts! Happy Thoughts!" As I haven't read much of it -- to be honest I find myself deleting SS posts from my box once again - I am disappointed to see the list enveloped in conflict and bickering again. Disrespect shouldn't be tolerated. But this list used to be about Liz and her music. What happened to that? And sometimes it is. But - times have changed. Liz is or isn't doing her music anymore. Maybe we've run out of things to talk about or analyze? Maybe some of us just don't care anymore like we used to? (I actually popped in a Liz tape the other day and for the first time in probably 8 years -- yep, has it really been 8 years? - I didn't want to hear Liz. Couldn't listen to her. Popped it back out. I NEVER thought that would happen.) But geez. I don't know. It' bad enough to have been a fan for this long and to have no news, our hopes dashed again and again b& Who knows if Liz will ever get another album out -- or if she even cares anymore or if I will if it ever happens. I'm thankful for Exile and appreciate her music. But it's hard to muster up much else these days, even with the Gap ad. (Which I think that she looks incredibly uncomfortable in.) Down got my hopes up, but oh well. Any word on the Julie Johnson soundtrack or is that a bust? Am I the only one who is (to my own amazement) really starting to lose interest and give up hope? Thanks to Ken and those of you who do keep legit info coming.... Happy listening, Happy thoughts... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 18:58:30 -0800 (PST) From: Amber Subject: Re: when an artist keeps their mouth shut....what is that, a mime? I know, bad joke.... > Personally, I prefer when an artist keeps their > mouth shut about their > sexual orientation, religion (or lack thereof), > politics, or personal > "problems". People these days seem to have a > problem with being > theirselves, and artists have to much influence over > people. Spouting off > generates interest without letting the music stand > on it's own. Not to > mention the stupid trends that are created. Ok, hang on a minute...I may be wrong, but isn't that (sexual orientation, religion (or lack thereof), politics, or personal "problems") what inspires most artists? I can think of very few really good pieces of art that aren't inspired by these very things (blues is one type that comes to mind, Bob Dylan, Neil Young, Janis Joplin, the Beatles, LIZ PHAIR, oh wait, she never writes anything personal, does she?, anyway the list could go on forever). The thing is, who knows, the artist may not be writing about their own personal problems or beliefs, it could just be a different point of view. I think art that has this kind of substance to it gives a lot of people something they can identify with and they don't feel like they're the only person in the world that feels that way. A lot of people use music as a release. I know I do. I have different songs for different emotions. When I'm really angry about something, there are certain songs I can really listen to, it helps relieve stress, and keeps me from taking it out on someone else. When I'm really depressed, again, music is my therapy. It helps me get through. And yeah, I have those songs that don't have any meaning to them, that are just fun to listen to, but that doesn't make me think that all other music is just an attempt to push someone else's beliefs on me. Oh, and David Bowie did publicly announce that he was gay after the birth of Zowie (i think that's how it's spelled), because he truly thought he was gay. Okay, I'm done for now, *amber* Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 22:08:04 EST From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: ps Ps-and just for the record-don't get the wrong idea, I really can't stand homophobia. But right or wrong of me, I'm just sick of people arguing...it seems like everyone around me and even everyone around them has been so negative lately... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 23:12:04 EST From: RocketBoyD@aol.com Subject: disses and hisses In a message dated 12/4/01 12:21:49 AM Central Standard Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << I think, however, that you make the mistake of assuming that all queer music listeners only listen to the music because its by gays. Or that we buy it because the singer is hot. I'd really like to think that we homos have more discriminating tastes than that. - ---Point well taken. Do you see gay men running out and purchasing a "rufus" or "jude" record?? It's not about a performer being "out" about their sexuality that sells records (This is more the case with lesbians, curiously)..........some gay men wouldn't even know of those guys!!!! I think a majority of gay men are just into dance music and divas......(not very discriminate)... I've had a handful of gay male friends turn their nose up at my "rock" music tastes actually. I've heard quite a few Liz-disses and "hisses" from them...........was that pun intended?? (laughing) PHIL ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V4 #308 ************************************