From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest)
To: support-system-digest@smoe.org
Subject: support-system-digest V4 #306
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support-system-digest     Monday, December 3 2001     Volume 04 : Number 306



                               Today's Subjects:
                               -----------------
  Placebo/Brett Anderson                       [s.fried@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au]
  not sure how uncool i am, but...   ["Chris DeLisle" <cdelisle@teleweb.net>]
  Re: support-system-digest V4 #304                     [Sexililgurl@aol.com]
  Re: The Whole Icon Thing and the Gap  ["Michael Worrell" <worrelmr@surfaci]
  Re: not sure how uncool i am, but...  ["schta - schy" <donnaholic@hotmail.]
  chick rock=gay men? NO                                  [HOLEPARTS@aol.com]
  Re: let's all apologize to jeremy                      [fallout@purdue.edu]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 17:35:18 +1000
From: s.fried@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au
Subject: Placebo/Brett Anderson

Hi,
Yeah, Brian Molko - guitarist/singer in Placebo- is bi but the last I heard has been going out with a woman, a model, for a while and Stefan Olsdal, Placebo's bassist, is gay. Yeah Brett Anderson has come out as bi and he said in an interview ages ago (I think in Select, not sure though), that he was bi but had never had a homosexual experience which he came under criticism for. Also the lead guy from the band Gay Dad has questioned Brian's bisexuality in the press, wanker. He said something about how if a man cracked onto Brian then he would go running off to his campervan or something like that. Whatever. I think Placebo are great role models for gay men cause they are, and always have been, so open about their sexuality and they don't give a shit what people think about them, just look at what they wear on stage, Brian often wears skirts/dresses and makeup and Stefan occasionally does. I saw them once when Brian was wearing a black leather miniskirt, no top and a black ti!
 e and Stefan was wearing black pants, no top and HOMO written on his chest and SAPIEN on his back and a pink collar. All the homophobes, who were probably there for Limp Bizkit (who threatened, well Fred Durst did, to kill Placebo after they played with Kid Rock somewhere in America) who had since fortunately pulled out of this particular festival, were chucking things at them. Stefan kept on teasing them and they kept on missing, idiots. 

Seeya
Sally

"Comes across all shy and coy
 Just another Nancy Boy"
Placebo

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 01:46:01 -0500
From: "Chris DeLisle" <cdelisle@teleweb.net>
Subject: not sure how uncool i am, but...

Did anyone watch "Dawson's Creek" last week?  Jen Lindley ~ not sure when she
became a radio DJ ~ put on Liz's "Ride" for some reason or another.  i think
Kevin Whatshisname, the writer/producer ~ another gay man, if i recall ~ has a
thing for Liz.  i'm pretty sure he had "Baby Got Going" or another one of
"wcse's" songs on last year or the year before that.

shortly afterwards, the obligatory Gap ad came on.  who do you think is
pushing Liz into all of these commercials?  do you think it's Capitol's way of
attempting to jumpstart momentum for her career?  i mean, if you count all the
VH1 time she's getting for all her views on the history of rock and roll,
she's getting A LOT of peripheral air time!

chris deLisle

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 04:01:06 EST
From: Sexililgurl@aol.com
Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #304

<<All of this talk about Gay Rock Stars has gotten my brain thinking . . . 
would you consider Liz to be a gay icon?  >>
i listened to liz long before i came out. . . i dont think so really. but what really makes an artist a "gay icon". .a rainbow tattooed on your forhead? 
i love an artist for their art, not their sexual orientation, if they happen to be gay/lesbian/bi/straight,  ya know it happens :)
just my 2 cents
taryn

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 10:07:26 -0500
From: "Michael Worrell" <worrelmr@surfacing.com>
Subject: Re: The Whole Icon Thing and the Gap

Ugh. Poofter pop. I wish I could selectively filter posts out of the digest,
'cause I can't remember a thread that has alternatively repulsed and annoyed
me this much.

Ms. Phair an icon? Uh, yeah, sure. She is/was married and has a kid, and is
like, famous for singing songs about fellatio. Yep, she's an icon for that
movement which has oh, zilch to do with a woman marryin' a guy, settling
down, having a wee little nipper, and going shopping/modeling from these p45
folks.

I've talked to myself, who likes her, and I agree that it's the entire
package of Liz Phair that I like. Identify with? No. Enjoy listening to etc
etc? Yes. She tells interesting stories in her songs, they sound good, and
she's pretty darned easy on the eyes. Couldn't ask for much more, except a
new album in the next...oh...five years after the third one. If it surprises
you that men don't identify with the singer in "Flower", well...

Those of you fervently clutching little rainbow flags in sweaty palms with a
fevered brow and hoping like kids at Christmas to find _something_ to
validate your existence from Liz Phair are probably on a wild goose chase.
Trusting the bio ECP wrote for Matador is actually kind of funny; did she
admit to making the whole thing up in 1994 or 1995?

Here's a shout out to Mrs. Madonna Ritchie, who recently announced her love
of hunting. Woo-hoo! That generated one album sale and the favor of this
opinioneer. Now if we could just get her to make an "I'm the NRA" ad.

Addressing an ancillary post: Ann Heche, welcome back. We rather missed you.
Phil, I totally disagree with you about changing pronouns. "Stayin' Alive"
sounds pretty stupid if Heather Nova (who did a splendid little cover of it,
by the way) says "I'm a woman's man", which she does, but the girl goes and
flip flops it at the end, and it works. Admittedly, the plausibility of Andy
Gibb saying that he was a woman's man was pretty low too, but he's dead so
we'll give him a pass.

Moving to point 2: It's nice to be liked, but it's better by far to get
paid. I know that most of the fans that I have don't really see it that
way. ---with apologies to Liz Phair.

Exactly how in the hell does ECP appearing in a commercial cheapen her art
and lessen her integrity as an artist? The phrase itself sounds like a bunch
of touchy-feely nonsense meant to make the writer sound self-important and
on the cutting edge of art criticism, but it fails. This whole anti-Gap
animosity is simply beyond me. Between them and Old Navy, there have been
some decent commercials in the last few years. What's the matter? Do they
use five-year old kids in their factories which run 24/7 belching toxic
smoke into the atmosphere or something?

Nobody ever boots Sting for writing a song for and appearing in a Jaguar
commercial; nobody's booting M. Ritchie for selling "Ray of Light" or the
Rolling Stones for selling "Start Me Up" to Microsoft (!@#$%), but yet,
people seem ready to cannibalize Liz Phair in an instant. Gee, and I thought
we were supposed to be loyal and devoted fans. Gosh, I must have been
mistaken; I thought people liked it when the artist of our mutual interest
gets her face out and gets some money in the bank. Darn; a thousand pardons,
please.

Oh well. I suppose that it's somehow more "hip" to be a struggling indie
artist who barely has any money, but the minute success or some money comes
in, the fickle fan base is history.

Sign me contrary.
Michael

NP: "Wah-Wah", George Harrison
"You think you know what I'm doing, so obviously you don't."---Aeon Flux

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 14:36:14 -0500
From: "schta - schy" <donnaholic@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: not sure how uncool i am, but...

xoxox : stace



>From: "Chris DeLisle" <cdelisle@teleweb.net>
>To: <support-system@smoe.org>
>Subject: not sure how uncool i am, but...
>Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 01:46:01 -0500
>
>...shortly afterwards, the obligatory Gap ad came on.  who do you think is 
>pushing Liz into all of these commercials?  do you think it's Capitol's way 
>of attempting to jumpstart momentum for her career?  i mean, if you count 
>all the VH1 time she's getting for all her views on the history of rock and 
>roll, she's getting A LOT of peripheral air time!
>
>chris deLisle


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 14:57:32 EST
From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com
Subject: chick rock=gay men? NO

In a message dated 12/2/01 12:19:34 AM Central Standard Time, 
owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes:

<< I just think this is what Liz falls into...like, it isn't HER in 
particular 
 that is the gay icon, it's just that she is another strong female figure so 
 I guess she almost becomes a gay icon by default or something - and I don't 
 know really..I'm no psychologist - hell - I failed psychology...anyway, i'm 
 getting off topic now. >>

but then again this doesnt apply to everyone- im just simply open-minded to 
music (rock music, that is). i simply dont view gender as a boundary... it 
shouldnt be seen as one. i just really admire certain artists that are able 
to create great music. im straight, and some of my favorite artists are: liz, 
tori, HOLE, veruca salt, juliana, blake babies... heck, i even thought 
madonna's "ray of light" was an amazing record! does this mean im gay? well, 
i guess it does to incredibly naive people, but it really shouldnt, seeing as 
im not. but then again, those are not the only bands that i like- my other 
favorite bands include: american hi-fi, pearl jam, soundgarden/chris cornell, 
stone temple pilots, pete yorn, ben lee, caviar... get what i mean? it just 
simply has to do with how devoted you are to music... i personally cannot 
stand guys that simply do not listen to chick rock because girls created the 
music- it drives me NUTS! they are way too egotistical, wanting only to 
maintain a "macho" persona... its bullshit. but anyways, that is my opinion.

mike

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 2 Dec 2001 19:41:19 -0500 (EST)
From: fallout@purdue.edu
Subject: Re: let's all apologize to jeremy

>I will say that i have received a few of e-mails from 
list members thanking me for the article. Once again i 
apologize if i have offended or pissed anyone off. 
Jeremy I apoligize. Perhaps if your post hadn't been so 
crass and attacking i would have responded differently. 
 DarkSide oftheMoon
> 
> 

Well, if you're going to keep bringing it up, let me 
say that although I agree the letter most certainly was 
attacking, I hardly believe it was crass.  I took time 
to read the article before I responded, and I stand by 
my accusations as well-grounded and correct.  About 
being full of anger, I don't think that's accurate 
either.  I enjoy using the word fuck, and while it 
certainly isn't appropriate everywhere, it's ever so 
helpful in making a point.  Look at it as passion, not 
anger.  I am not a hateful person, and the way I look 
at it, if you believe in the duder so much, then my 
petty criticism should not put you in such a tizzy.  
Because, hey, who the fuck am I anyway? 

That said, I think you're lying when you say people 
have sent you emails thanking you for that article.  It 
was fucking tripe.

jeremy

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End of support-system-digest V4 #306
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