From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V4 #305 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Sunday, December 2 2001 Volume 04 : Number 305 Today's Subjects: ----------------- ....and your girlfriend too [RocketBoyD@aol.com] A plea [Dermich@aol.com] gap donating money to charity [Steve Rhodes ] Bounced message [owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ] woo-hoo! ["Daaaaan Theman" ] Liz Phag-Hag?/Gap Commercial [Dan MacDonald ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 01:49:44 EST From: RocketBoyD@aol.com Subject: ....and your girlfriend too hi folks, I'm devouring this talk about bi-sexual/gay rock stars.......I don't think I've ever seen this topic brought up in a digest!!!!! Speaking of bi-sexual hipsters, didn't Liz herself toy with the media back in the "Guyville" days suggesting that she had experimented with "alternative lifestyles" when she moved to San Fran??? And don't forget the original "i'll fuck you and your girlfriend too"...........(it totally sucked that she cut that line!!!!!!).............. :( But I do think it's such a shame that the media makes the biggest hoopla over a celebrity's sexual orientation..........esp...the whole Ellen/Anne Heche freakshow.....(Anne rates #2 on my list of celebrity fruitcakes.......only trailing behind Mariah Carey---who is the biggest nutcase celebrity living) The other thing that really bothers me is when an artist will change the pronoun of a song if it was originally performed by a musician of another gender!!!! Who gives a fuck?? anyways, back into the hole I crawl....... PHIL ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 02:33:44 EST From: Dermich@aol.com Subject: A plea >and what the hell is wrong with talking about it, on this list, even? what?? There is something **VERY** wrong with talking about politics on this list. That something: It's not the topic people signed up to discuss here. The tangent from Liz "I'll fuck you and your girlfriend too" Phair to Gay Rock Stars is logical and fair game. Even Liz to Jen Trynin or Sheryl Crow seems fair. But folks, really...world politics just aren't what this is for. I am a news researcher, and I live this stuff day in and day out. I don't want to read about it here, and I don't want to see the hurt feelings, ad hominem attacks and chest puffing it always engenders. And I absolutely guarantee you these discussions will tear this list apart quicker than almost anything else. I've seen it happen on MANY lists I've followed over the years. The only thing more destructive is someone starting a tape tree and stealing everyone's money. I, for one, will unsub if the s/n ratio gets any lower. Derek ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 02:26:02 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Rhodes Subject: gap donating money to charity This article http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/living/1130gap.html at the end says: To show its appreciation, the company made donations totaling $200,000 to charities chosen by Supertramp and by the musicians who appear in the spots. So while I don't buy gap products and am not thrilled Liz did the ad, it is not quite as bad. And they do make good ads. But it is better when she does it for good companies like Apple or the designer. Still, it keeps her in front of the public eye until the long awaited album finally comes out. - ------------------------------ Steve Rhodes http://www.well.com/~srhodes http://www.tvbarn.com - contributor ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 08:13:43 -0500 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: edemast Subject: RE: support-system-digest V4 #302 Dan (re: Gap commercial-inspired thoughts), I know exactly what you mean. I think you hit the nail right on the head with your comments about Liz "not quite fitting in". I know that's one of the reasons I love her so much. She makes it okay to be on the outside looking in, because she's honest with herself about it. Think about "Perfect World" for example. Or "Mesmerizing." She's self-conscious without being totally paranoid. In these songs I feel like she's jumped into my body and said exactly how I feel. Then she'll do a song like "Go West" where she finds strength in her individuality, not alienation. From that song I find the courage to be myself, to "go west" and seek my own life, on my own terms. Fitting in then becomes bullshit. I think most of us struggle between these two extremes, wanting so badly to fit in, but knowing deep down it doesn't, or at least shouldn't, matter. Thank goodness we have someone who's not afraid to express that struggle. Liz doesn't fit in that Gap commercial, and I love that. It's ultimately what she's all about. - -Emma ********************************************************************* "A good movie can take you out of your dull funk and the hopelessness that so often goes with slipping into a theater; a good movie can make you feel alive again, in contact, not just lost in another city. Good movies make you care, make you believe in possibilities again . . . Sitting there alone or painfully alone because those with you do not react as you do, you know there must be others perhaps in this very theater or in this city, surely in other theaters in other cities, now, in the past or future, who react as you do. And because movies are the most total and encompassing art form we have, these reactions can seem the most personal and, maybe the most important, imaginable. The romance of movies is not just in those stories and those people on the screen but in the adolescent dream of meeting others who feel as you do about what you've seen. You do meet them, of course. . . . " -Pauline Kael Emma Demastrie edemast@gwu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 08:14:45 -0500 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "cheddarcat" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #302 > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:20:19 -0500 > From: Dan MacDonald > Subject: A Gap-inspired thought about Liz > > First off all - does Liz ever strike anyone as...(and I mean this in the > NICEST, most non-slandering way) as kind of geeky?? Like - i am TRULY not > Liz bashing, she has been my favorite singer since 93 but a few things > she's done..i don't know..sometimes she strikes me as like, someone who is > kind of trying to fit in, but never CAN fit in. dan dan dan, i know EXActly what you mean, and yes yes yes. i waz always one of those geeky girls myself... still have not seen the dang liz commercial though i've seen tons of the robbie robertson one... ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 08:15:29 -0500 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jase ) Subject: Bounced message From: "cheddarcat" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #302 > Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:20:19 -0500 > From: Dan MacDonald > Subject: A Gap-inspired thought about Liz > > Okay, I just saw 2 commercials with Liz on much music. One was the group > one with India Arie and Lisa Lopes and Sheryl Crow - and THE OTHER was the > same song - but JUST LIZ all alone in the same room - but doing the whole > thing by herself!! It was weird, but it got me thinking about a few things: > First off all - does Liz ever strike anyone as...(and I mean this in the > NICEST, most non-slandering way) as kind of geeky?? Like - i am TRULY not > Liz bashing, she has been my favorite singer since 93 but a few things > she's done..i don't know..sometimes she strikes me as like, someone who is > kind of trying to fit in, but never CAN fit in. but i guess i shou7ld clarify- and you talked about this too-- i mean, physically she is as cool as possible.... like, she could wear the hippest clothes of course and not look awkward. [um, as opposed to me] but -- there is this slight aspect to her of goofiness, not fitting in, but trying, which i actually think is kind of great. ALThough, certain manifestations of this so-called geekiness, i'm not really into, like, in my opinion she shouldn't be opening for alanis. b/c she's just so much better. perhaps not as widely appealing to the masses, but so much better. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 10:52:39 -0500 From: "kimberly ann" Subject: nokia ringtones does anyone know a place where i can get free nokia ringtones? like really free ones bc every website i go to says its free but then you have to make some $2 a minutes call to get it. so i need one that is really scott free thanks kim ann _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 17:10:46 -0500 From: "Daaaaan Theman" Subject: woo-hoo! I'm glad caused a debate w/ the whole gay rock star thing. My point was not that there aren't any gays in rock, there are lots, but there has never been someone with an enormous level of fame, who also happens to be gay and play guitar. I think the world needs a gay Madonna, or David Bowie type person who writes his own music and can play the fuck out of an electric guitar. By the way, Will Shwartz from Imperial Teen is a sweetheart. I saw them when I was 17 at Maxwells in Hoboken NJ. I had never met anyone famous, and I was such a geek when I met them. He had a thing for me I guess, and sang practically the entire show looking at me. That was a great night. Almost as good as the night I almost met Liz. That's it for now. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 19:28:00 -0500 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: Liz Phag-Hag?/Gap Commercial Mike wrote: >Does anyone else feel kind of disappointed when musicians you like allow >their music or themselves to appear in commercials? Public service ads or >non-profits are one thing... but the GAP?! I understand they do it for the >money and the exposure but it comes at the cost of cheapening their art and >lessening their integrity as artists... Hmmm..not really. I kinda think of it as a fun way to pay the bills - and I know that sounds cheesey, and it might be but it's just - work, I guess. Like Kim Deal selling off "Cannonball" to that car commercial..I mean, we have heard the song a BILLION and one times over, we probably all skip the damn song when we play the Last Splash album, and I bet Kim Deal is just as sick of playing it. So what did she do? She made a couple thousand off it because it is catchy and enjoyable - it's a killer bass line, you gotta admit and she sold it to make money just for the fuck of it - by selling out to a commercial. I don't think there is anything wrong with it really - (she sure as hell wasn't doing much else, but anyway) she might as well have made a few grand from it, I mean, - why not? It comes down to this:If you can make a living off doing what you love (song writing) why not!? But with Liz and Sheryl Crow and Luscious Jackson (R.I.P. - but the Luscious Jackson GAP commercial was my fave too!) doing commercials - I just think it's kinda cute and cool - and I am gonna admit this now: I LOVE GAP COMMERCIALS! I think they are short, sweet, neat - and I don't care - I think they are pretty damn nifty and stylish - the fact that the marketers picked someone like Liz Phair and India Arie only back up what cool taste they have. So there we go - if I am now a sellout - so be it dammit!! (I cant say i shop at the gap much...then again..i can't say i shop much at all!) Also - with regard to Liz being a Gay Icon - I don't know... I think LOTS AND LOTS of girl singers have a strong gay-male following, especially girl singers who have somewhat of a feminist slant. Look at bands like Le Tigre, Sleater-Kinney, PEACHES, Veruca Salt - hell - even at the bloody Juliana Hatfield show - the ENTIRE front row were pretty much all gay men or women - myself included (in the gay men slot, of course). Why? I don't know. Gay men are obsessed (or intrigued) with the image and presence of a strong female figure - take the biggest and most obvious example of this: MADONNA. If gay men didn't exist - Madonna would have bought the farm about 12 years ago. But I think every single gay man has a big time soft spot for Madonna (no matter how poppy she is) be it a love to hate her way, or a love to love her way. Gay men love Madonna in one way or another - I think this is just a fact of life I have come to know and accept. Of course - there will be the ONE exception on this list who says "I'm gay - - and I HATE Madonna..." to you - i say - DIG DEEP!! DEEP DEEP! DEEP into that CD collection...where that old copy of True Blue or Erotica sits...and tell me you never LOVED it and LIVED it. Sorry. I just think this is what Liz falls into...like, it isn't HER in particular that is the gay icon, it's just that she is another strong female figure so I guess she almost becomes a gay icon by default or something - and I don't know really..I'm no psychologist - hell - I failed psychology...anyway, i'm getting off topic now. I'm rambling and my bitter feelings towards my failed attempt at higher learning are coming through. Yes. I am a University drop-out. Are you happy now? You got it out of me. Anyway, enough of this shit - commercials, movies, geekiness and queers - it's all cool in my book - LIZ PHAIR ROCKS!! WOO HOOO! MOSH PIT!!!!!!! MOSH PIT!!! MOSH PIT!!! (just kidding) Luv Dan, ******************************** "For the ladies and the fags yeah, we're the band with the rollerskate jams...." ********************************** ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V4 #305 ************************************