From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V4 #304 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, December 1 2001 Volume 04 : Number 304 Today's Subjects: ----------------- it's cool wit me ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] Liz:Gay Icon?? [Standingsixfeet1@aol.com] say it ain't so [rickilake@juno.com] Re: support-system-digest V4 #303 [Dermich@aol.com] transmission....transition ["Dana Polachowski" ] Gay Rock Stars, the Gap etc. [carrma@WellsFargo.COM] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 03:10:09 -0500 From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: it's cool wit me >My opinion is that this guy could have the cure for cancer, that doesn't mean i want to see it on the list. >This list is a forum for liz phair related topics and music in general. This topic has no more relevance to this list than a discussion about human rights in China, Jerry Falwell, or human cloning. >I really appreciate your efforts to save us from the mysterious black helicopters and the new world order, but I guess I'm saying thanks, but no thanks. I am well aware of the forum of this list having been on it for some years now. And i know that it has always strayed into areas that are not liz or even music related for that matter. Ultimately its up to jase what gets through and what doesn't. I've never seen him censor anything other than absolute vulgar and hate filled e-mails. I complement Jase on his ability to maintain a list that does stray off-topic once in awhile. I think for the most part everyone takes it with a grain of salt and it makes the times the list has few discussions relevant to liz more interesting. I will say that i have received a few of e-mails from list members thanking me for the article. Once again i apologize if i have offended or pissed anyone off. Jeremy I apoligize. Perhaps if your post hadn't been so crass and attacking i would have responded differently. I will try to keep my more passionate posts related to liz and gay rock stars! is it 4:20 yet? DarkSide oftheMoon _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 07:49:28 EST From: Standingsixfeet1@aol.com Subject: Liz:Gay Icon?? All of this talk about Gay Rock Stars has gotten my brain thinking . . . would you consider Liz to be a gay icon? It hadn't crossed my mind that she had so many gay listeners until now. I've talked to a lot of my straight male friends who like her, and most agree that it's the music and not the lyrics that they identify with. Could she be the indie Madonna? james ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:02:34 -0500 From: rickilake@juno.com Subject: say it ain't so Morissey is gay? *sound of melissa's heart breaking* Well scratch that fantasy.. thanks john. I really got a kick out of the gap ad. I've always liked the gap ads despite how much that particular company pisses me off. I was kinda hoping Liz would do one eventually. My favorite is the Luscious Jackson one from a few years back. I'm such a sucker for those commercials too. Good little consumer that I am I clicked right on the links to see if I could wear what Liz was wearing. Someone smack me. Other non-liz tidbits: I saw They Might Be Giants a earlier this month and they were fabulous. They finished their show with their NYC song and it was a human energy explosion onstage and in the audience. Lotsa fun. I know their music isn't for everyone, but those guys can put on a show. Tickets are usually under 20 bucks so if they are coming to your area check them out. - ---melissa ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:59:24 EST From: Dermich@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #303 >when she attempts the complicated hair-flip and air >guitar combination But Rob Halford could have pulled that off, NO SWEAT. Just kidding. By the way, Rob's album as Two (_Voyeurs_) on Nothing Records was really really really really good, for anyone here who gets into electronic metal music. Art Alexakis of Everclear told Interview magazine in 1996 that "there was a time in my life when I only dated guys." Of course, Art is/was a smackhead and a total prick (he screwed over a friend of mine bad). So take that with a grain of salt. Maybe he was trying to appear "edgy." And I agree with everyone else, as I've said before: This list is NOT the place for political discussions. You will find no shortage of forums on the internet for those purposes. Please use them instead of Support System. Over and out, Derek ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:06:39 -0800 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: transmission....transition > I noticed that the only > things you quoted from the article were the times that he did refer to his > other works. Not one mention of the real thrust of the article of the facts > contain in it. Yes he does promote his other works (nothing wrong with > that). I don't find his demeanor or attitude especially self-righteous or > arrogant however. ok: yeah. *exactly*. i think the reason he was saying "...my video from 1982..." and all that other stuff was a way to say "i've done a ton of research on this for 20 years now; i've been following it." and there's nothing wrong with saying, "...i've been pointing this out for 20 years now." and he's not the only one. thank god. this gets at a really important point. face the fact that, here in america, there is no such thing as a "free press." it's been gone for.... 20 years now. does anyone here remember the TV press coverage of vietnam? i remember being 5 years old and knowing what a body bag was because the journalists who went to saigon made their camera people point the lenses at the piles of bodies on the tarmack. the press coverage of vietnam was brutal and bloody--and was beamed into suburban american homes nightly (and it was surreal). why? because the journalists made it their mission to show america just even the tiniest glimpse of what was going on there, what was really happening to their 19-year-old boys. the carnage, the insanity, the soul-crushing circumstances. i didn't understand until i was in my 20s why they made it their mission to do this; seeing that stuff as a child, well, all i could think was, "...i'm not made for this place...." yeah, it freaked me out. then there was watergate and everyone wanted to be the sleuth-cum-reporter who ferrets out governmental nastiness (thanks also to dustin hoffman and robert redford, but whatever...). 1980: enter ronald-fucking-reagan and the era of the corporate merger. "time" and "newsweek," once fairly reliable sources of information and at least one part of the system of "checks and balances," turned into ceo-style glossies. their coverage of reagan's campaign, i'm telling you, totally threw the election. it's been downhill ever since. the free press no longer exists in this country. it got bought out by suspender-wearing weenies who masterbate to copies of "fortune." another depressing fact is that the vast majority of people get their news from, tah dah, TV. presented by "news readers." look, the reason anyone provides a link to said site is *not* because they think they're so much smarter than "the ignorant masses" but because the person read it, evaluated it, and deemed it useful insofar as it could provide *perspective* and get discussion going. we're living in extenuating circumstances now--discussion is vital. [and as far as lording it over "the ignorant masses," look no further than your own heinous government. now that global expansion is over and they can't meddle in other countries' affairs in the name of "freedom and democracy" (because they've been called on it too many times, publicly, for what it really is), what is a superpower to do?] and what the hell is wrong with talking about it, on this list, even? what?? again, we're a bunch of intelligent humans here and we can only talk about liz's latest hairstyle only so much. if you have an opinion on what's going on in the world and you are refraining from sharing it here, and then get pissed off when others go ahead and share *their* views, ummm, sorry. the point is not necessarily to offend YOU. or your sensibilities. it's not to flaunt in the face of protocol and decorum. humans discuss things. because we can. that's just how we are. so, thanks, DarkSideoftheMoon. good call. dp PS: on my plane ride home, outta paris, france, on american airlines, no less (?!?!?), they showed the movie "three days of the condor." i almost dropped dead.... that movie is, like, 25 years old, and the parallels to now.... well, nothing's changed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:09:30 -0800 From: raymond lew Subject: OT: kurt cobain kurt said he was gay in spirit, that he *could* be bisexual, probably would have been had he not met courtney. here's the article: http://www.nirvanaclub.com/interviews/dvctntrv.htm =] ...ray ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 12:01:37 -0800 From: carrma@WellsFargo.COM Subject: Gay Rock Stars, the Gap etc. Also Elton John and George Michael they are both out now--and Queen (but I guess they don't count because the band isn't together anymore). I was talking to a friend about the lack of gay rock stars a few months ago... We came to the conclusion that isn't so much that there are no gay male rock stars in the US, it's just that in general they don't flaunt it. They might come out in an interview but the in the music and public image their orientation is downplayed. For example, the love songs they sing, while there may be homosexual undertones, are often non-gendered or directed to women. My guess is they fear the star that flames the brightest burns the shortest! :D > Did he really say that or are you paraphrasing? I'm hesitant to say > anything critical (because it's rare that any famous men come out as > bisexual) Rare, but it does happen--Brett Anderson of the band Suede came out as bi... as I believe Michael Stipe did before more recently declaring himself all out gay. Though not a rock star, I think Andy Dick came out as bi, too. There are several rock stars rumored to be bi such as David Bowie, Mick Jaguar and John Lennon but who knows or cares, for that matter, if it is true. > ...but...really, what a dumb thing to say!! If you're bisexual, do you suddenly turn > hetero when you date/marry someone of the opposite sex?????! Hmm, I think what he was trying to convey is that he would have been open to dating women and men if he hadn't fallen in love with Courtney. Not that he suddenly went straight, but that he was faithful to her. But as the other Mike said, this could just be Kurt fucking around trying to ruffle people's feathers a bit. > when you're bi, you like men and women equally, and they could have had an open ] > relationship so Kurt could keep seeing men. Not to jump on you, but bisexuality doesn't necessarily mean the strength of the attraction is equal (if you can really measure that sort of thing!) nor does it equate with promiscuity. It is possible to be bi and monogamous--though promiscuous people may use their bisexuality as a justification for their infidelity. Does anyone else feel kind of disappointed when musicians you like allow their music or themselves to appear in commercials? Public service ads or non-profits are one thing... but the GAP?! I understand they do it for the money and the exposure but it comes at the cost of cheapening their art and lessening their integrity as artists... That said, it was still a bit of a thrill to see Liz. When I first saw the ad I was wondering if Liz would do one for the Gap and then suddenly there she was on the screen. Perhaps she'll do a small pre-release tour to build up interest in her new album... a boy can dream can't he? Take it easy, Mike ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V4 #304 ************************************