From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V4 #303 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Friday, November 30 2001 Volume 04 : Number 303 Today's Subjects: ----------------- liz gap ad; gay rock stars ["john kim" ] believe what you want ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] other opinions? ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] Bob Mould ["Chris DeLisle" ] Geekiness ["Allison" ] Re: the gay rockstar [KiTkAtE907@aol.com] Re: other opinions? [robert joyner ] it's always the quiet ones.... ["Dana Polachowski" ] ot - dont think kurt was gay [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Re: ugggg [AWeiss4338@aol.com] ***Gay Rock Stars*** ["Nathan Carrera" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:09:34 -0500 From: "john kim" Subject: liz gap ad; gay rock stars dan's comments on liz gap ad, i agree with. also might explain why alot of people think she fell off after EXILE. that the GS and EXILE were pretty raw and she didn't give a fuck about what she was doing and then, the next record she's on the cover of rolling stone, etc. plus she's got that whole stage fright thing. but it makes her endearing. and i'm not saying that i don't like the newer stuff cause it's liz being awkward and not knowing what to do (although her audience has really shifted alot between the three records, so there is the insecurity for her of who she's writing songs for; herself first, sure...). with that said, my first liz record was EXILE and i listen to WCSE the most now. there's really great songwriting on it. it's very subtle, but great. and for people searching for gay rock stars: look no further than morrissey, also rob halford (judas priest). _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 03:02:30 -0500 From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: believe what you want Whoa! First off let me apologize to the list in general for sending what obviously was to some people a shocking article/link to the list. My intentions were not to start a flame war or piss off the masses but motivated by the fact that maybe some of the less ignorant ss members might glean some information from it. I certainly didn't expect the wholly negative and immature comments from certain parties. And believe me I will not be sending any more thought provoking links to the list. We will just keep it safe and Liz related. But I can't resist responding to the following since Jeremy seems so full of anger. (Why I don't know...it's just an article for heaven's sake!) Jeremy says: 'This is the attitude you'll have when you're a fuckwad, self-righteous, arrogant dipshit.' You were talking about *your* attitude....right? 'This eight page love letter to his own fucking career is completely worthless and contains nothing you can't infer on your own. Unless you're fucking ignorant.' It's his website. If wants to promote himself and his products, that's his business. I have nothing to do with it. And there is more in the article than just self-promotion..a lot more. Well guess what...most people are ignorant (you proven my point so well) and i am shocked that you don't have a cabinet position since you seem to be so enlightened in world politics and such. I don't believe that everything is a conspiracy. But if you want to believe everything the government and CNN feed you, *that* is wallowing in ignorance. Over and out... DarkSide oftheMoon "I didn't think it was possible, but this both sucks and blows." Bart Simpson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 04:32:07 -0500 From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: other opinions? Okay just to make sure i was reading the same article that Clarice and Jeremy blasted, i went back and re-read it. I have no problem with someone disagreeing with it, but damn Jeremy, the way you ripped him it sounds like he personally pissed in your Cheerios or sumthin! I noticed that the only things you quoted from the article were the times that he did refer to his other works. Not one mention of the real thrust of the article of the facts contain in it. Yes he does promote his other works (nothing wrong with that). I don't find his demeanor or attitude especially self-righteous or arrogant however. Clarice said: 'Some of it made sense, but most of it is just a bunch of journalistic fear factor jargon. But I guess the majority of people are interested in fear and death and destruction and conspiracy theories related to such things.' I think most of it made sense. fear factor jargon? You think all this info is just made up? Are you really that naive or is the pabulum media really doing a number on the vast majority of America? You can already see the things he is talking about taking place in this country and worldwide for that matter. You don't have to be 'interested' in death and destruction to see what is going on in the world. It's thrust in your face daily everywhere you look. You don't think there is a bigger picture here? Get real.... I would really like to see some other people's opinions (both pro and con)on this article. That is if Jase doesn't mind... DarkSide oftheMoon _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 05:06:41 -0500 From: "Chris DeLisle" Subject: Bob Mould Bob Mould of Husker Du/Sugar fame (as well as having an outstanding solo career) is gay. i think one of the other members of Husker Du was, too. (Grant Hart?) Bob's about the greatest songwriter ever, and has been extremely influential in the alternative genre. Pete Townshend had a period in the early 80's (and quite possibly late 70's) that was fairly experimental in exploring his sexuality. and don't forget all of that "is he or isn't he?" stuff with Bowie, Jagger, Reed and Pop in the 70's, which is, at the very least, hearsay. chris deLisle ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:43:10 -0600 From: "Allison" Subject: Geekiness >does Liz ever strike anyone as...(and I >mean this in the >NICEST, most non-slandering way) as >kind of geeky?? Oh yes, I have thought of Liz as wonderfully geeky ever since I first saw her perform. She was in her stage fright mode then - stammering and having to start songs over, waving hi to her mom and apologizing for swearing. I thought it was endearing that she didn't have her rock star moves down. And she never has mastered them - the last time I saw her (WCSE tour) she practically stood stock still on stage the entire time, except for some goofy stylized hand movements during a few songs. At one point she was throwing some picks out to the audience and she looked exactly like a little girl throwing a ball - sort of like a little ineffectual forearm fling, you know? Anyway, I am saying the woman is not terrifically coordinated and often this manifests itself as geekiness.....in the Gap commercial it seriously looks like she is going to fall backwards when she attempts the complicated hair-flip and air guitar combination. But she does look amazingly cute in that little sweater and jeans, and her geekiness only makes me love her more..... Allison ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:08:53 EST From: KiTkAtE907@aol.com Subject: Re: the gay rockstar i also heard a rumor that evan dando was gay (though that has also been contradicted by the rumors concerning he and juliana hatfield). Can anyone clarify? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:22:20 -0800 (PST) From: robert joyner Subject: Re: other opinions? > DarkSide oftheMoon Hey DarkSide oftheMoon My opinion is that this guy could have the cure for cancer, aids, and anthrax for all I care, that doesn't mean i want to see it on the list. You seem to want to enlighten the ignorant masses to this subject. This ignorant mass doesn't want to be bothered by it. Naive? No. I could just really give a fuck about this topic (meet the new boss, same as the old boss). This list is a forum for liz phair related topics and music in general. This topic has no more relevance to this list than a discussion about human rights in China, Jerry Falwell, or human cloning. I really appreciate your efforts to save us from the mysterious black helicopters and the new world order, but I guess I'm saying thanks, but no thanks. Later Robert ===== - ------------------------------------------------------------ "But life is good; it's not as bad as Thom Yorke would have you believe." - Noel Gallagher, Oasis - ------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! GeoCities - quick and easy web site hosting, just $8.95/month. http://geocities.yahoo.com/ps/info1 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:48:52 -0800 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: it's always the quiet ones.... re: > the one with India Arie and Lisa Lopes and Sheryl Crow - that third one is lisa lopes?! the arsonist??!?! oh my god, she's so adorable.... ! i was rackin' my brains trying to figger out who that was. didn't she also get in trouble for beating the crap out someone? oh, please say yes; this is the kind of info i *live* for.... truth is stranger than fiction. and as for gay rock stars, don't forget bob mould.... dp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:16:57 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Griffes Subject: ugggg >>'if I hadn't met Courtney I just would have carried on with a bisexual lifestyle.'<< Did he really say that or are you paraphrasing? I'm hesitant to say anything critical (because it's rare that any famous men come out as bisexual)...but...really, what a dumb thing to say!! If you're bisexual, do you suddenly turn hetero when you date/marry someone of the opposite sex?????! Dont think so...well, not unless your Anne Heche (what an ass!) Steve. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:57:13 EST From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: ot - dont think kurt was gay In a message dated 11/29/01 12:24:03 AM Central Standard Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << He did. He came out as bi in the Advocate (gay/lesbian news magazine which is a lot like Newsweek) many years ago. He said 'if I hadn't met Courtney I just would have carried on with a bisexual lifestyle.' >> kurt wasnt gay... although sometimes he wanted or wished he could be... sometimes i think its because he wanted to be different, or just wanted to differentiate himself from the egotistical male rapists and perves that went to nirvana shows (or maybe even scare them away from nirvana music, since he obviously loathed the fact that these "jocks" were into his band). but the fact is he loved women too much... the whole advocate thing was sort of a way for him to reach out to the gay community... courtney has said she tried to have him open up to michael (stipe) but that it just never worked... she said that she thought it would have been healthy for him to have affairs on the road and crap like that, but it just never happened... he was a family man... a straight one... although it is one of those rock-star-myths that everyone thinks is true... kind of like the bridge thing- he never lived under the bridge... The new biography by charles cross explains all this... you guys should read it sometime mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:17:59 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: ugggg In a message dated 11/29/01 6:23:51 PM Eastern Standard Time, sgriffes@umich.edu writes: > >>'if I hadn't met Courtney I just would have carried on with a bisexual > lifestyle.'<< > > Did he really say that or are you paraphrasing? I'm hesitant to say > anything critical (because it's rare that any famous men come out as > bisexual)...but...really, what a dumb thing to say!! If you're bisexual, > do you suddenly turn hetero when you date/marry someone of the opposite > sex?????! Dont think so...well, not unless your Anne Heche (what an ass!) > > Yes he really did say that, it's the one sentence from that interview that sticks in my mind. I wouldn't say it was dumb, when you're bi, you like men and women equally, and they could have had an open relationship so Kurt could keep seeing men. I know, it's conjecture, so don't jump on me. I agree though, it's not either/or. If anyone wants a good laugh about Anne Heshe, go buy the Advocate (gay/lesbian newsmagazine) and read the letters to the editor about the interview Anne did with them. They are so funny and so on target, especially if you read that interview. She's an ass. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:18:07 -0800 From: "Nathan Carrera" Subject: ***Gay Rock Stars*** Don't forget Will Schartz and Roddy Bottum from Imperial Teen. On the Placebo note, I read that the lead singer is bi and there is one straight and gay guy. So that makes them half gay. Sleater-Kinney falls into that too, I think. But Imperial Teen. Yeah! love, nathan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V4 #303 ************************************