From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V4 #291 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, November 12 2001 Volume 04 : Number 291 Today's Subjects: ----------------- RE: Dana P or Phil Spector? ["Michael Honaker" ] Miscellaneous junx [Meredith Robbins ] Re: support-system-digest V4 #289 [Standingsixfeet1@aol.com] uncle alvarez / WCSE production [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] leave me alone rocketboyd ["Brian P. Falk" ] baby got goin' ["Dana Polachowski" ] Re: uncle alvarez / WCSE production [IdolinExile@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 02:35:17 -0500 From: "Michael Honaker" Subject: RE: Dana P or Phil Spector? >robert joyner wrote: > >Michael Penn, and Pete Yorn for the next album when it >is really obvious we have a true producing genius in >our own midsts. I mean, what was Liz thinking all >these years using Brad Wood and Litt with REM when >Dana was so readily available. It's just an opinion. Christ. Dana - I do the same thing. Listening to Whip-smart and Exile, I don't because I wouldn't have changed anything. I've thought the same things with other artists though. I felt that way about Poe's "Another World", but not anything off of "Haunted", cause thats just an album you don't mess with. Whitechocolatespaceegg though, The intro to 'happy' needs to be dropped back to the acoustic one, like someone already mentioned, and one thing I've thought since 98 is that "Big Tall Man" needs a good swift kick in the ass, and the background vocals at the end, "Yes I'm careening down, winding the canyons now, yes I'm broadcasting myself", should have been more prominent in the final version. Plus there are changes I would have made through the rest of the songs. That album needed a harder edge, I thought. If it was supposed to be hi-fi and split from the sound of Exile, it should have kicked ass a bit more. Wouldn't it be wild if someone could access the masters for the Egg, then totally re-produce it? Wish it were possible. I think its rather fun working with Liz's voice. Once I somehow messed around with "Oh My God" and changed the pitch of Liz in the background to actually sound like her voice. rather interesting effect, although I don't know where I put the file. It's somewhere with Carnivore, I figure. Speaking of producers - I find the tracks that I enjoy more on the album are the ones produced by Brad and/or Liz. The only stand-out track that Litt produced has to be "Perfect World". Litt did a good job with REM, but I just don't think he did a good job with Liz. All in all, it's still LIZ and thats what I'm grateful for... her voice and wit when it comes to songwriting. Oh well - thats my statement. - -michael ========================================== "I wasn't born with enough middle fingers" ========================================== http://suprnova.lunamorena.net ========================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 09:07:19 -0500 From: Meredith Robbins Subject: Miscellaneous junx Some various replies (and do you remember when people used to say junx?): Michael Worrell, one bad-ass mofo, wrote: >Hrrm. Posts by Meredith _and_ Steve in one digest. Keep this up, and it'll >be a #WCSE reunion tour. Giddyup. I'm game if you are. Will there be tour t-shirts? Because if there are, I think they should dragons and chicks in bikinis on them. Also, flames. Lots of flames. >Meredith, "straight-ahead sex talk without riot grrrl posturing" has to be >one of the classics from this list in terms of wisecracks & one-liners. If >I'd ever finished preliminary work on my Liz Phair site, that would have >made it into the content for being awfully damn appropriate. For what it's >worth, I noticed both of your sites gone, Miss Robbins. Good to hear that >they'll be making a comeback. Thank you very much. Now excuse me while I turn aside to wipe away the single tear rolling poetically down my alabaster cheek. Then, the rabble-rousing, believer-taunting, pinhead-hugging Brian Falk wrote: >she said: >>Anyways, as I'm sure none of you noticed, exileinnetville.com is currently >>kaput. > >i say: >i noticed because went to look at the site for the first time in over a >year- just this morning. it always perks up a gloomy workday morning when i >see pictures of my bumbling tipsy self taunting jesus freaks(i.e.: giving >back to society). For the rest of you, that's http://www.exileinnetville.com/phfest/. For some reason, I never put a link to it from the main page. Actually, it was probably because I wasn't wild about putting a bunch of pictures of my 16-year-old self on my website. But I trust you all, and in any event, I'm older now and have a big mean boyfriend. Oh, yes, and Exile in Netville is officially back in action now. All hail Dan Mohrbacher! No, seriously, hail him. He deserves it. Meredith - -- "Don't let lack of talent hold you back!" -- Ann-Marie Bivans, _101 Secrets to Winning Beauty Pageants_ http://www.exileinnetville.com has a sugar daddy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 17:18:58 EST From: Standingsixfeet1@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #289 In a message dated 11/10/01 6:17:01 AM GMT Standard Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << Artists need time off......they're human like everyone else. I'm sure Liz has had it rough these past couple of years with her divorce, moving, and raising a child. I can totally sympathize with her need to distract herself and make herself feel attractive.....she's probably feeling a lot of pain (hence the lyrics of "down"). >> I agree with most of your post . . . BUT . . . the way I see it this IS her job. We all work, we all have issues. Most of us don't have the ability to say, "Well, I'll put off that business report for four years . . . I don't have the right inspiration, yet." Yes, I'm being overly dramatic to stress a point . . . but you get the idea. If she doesn't want to be a musician anymore, that's her purgative. But make an announcement to the public. We are the ones who put the money in her pay check every week. I think we deserve we deserve more than this. I personally don't care if she moves to LA, or becomes a model, or styles her hair differently, or if she decides to become the next lead singer or Wham! Just tell us what's going on. Personally, I think all of her albums are great. Let's face it, even mediocre Liz is better than anything else out there. I want her to take risks. I would much prefer a bad album to dissect and contemplate than nothing at all. I think it would be all-too cool, if she made a pop album, or a rap album, or a country album. Laughable? Debbie Harry did it, and she was far less talented than Liz. She couldn't sing, or write music to save her life. But because she was always trying new things, and break new ground, she will always be great in my book. If you keep creating, the public will stand by you, and forgive your occasional missteps. Damn the torpedoes, Liz -- full steam ahead! james ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 20:35:51 EST From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: uncle alvarez / WCSE production In a message dated 11/8/01 12:22:58 AM Central Standard Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << Uncle Alvarez is a standout cut, >> uncle alvarez was the first song that i heard off of WCSE. i thought it was an "ok" song, but after listening to the entire album, i have to say that it is the worst... i really do not like it that much. it puzzles me how others really seem to think of it as such an outstanding track. the other songs are so much better... it is really the only fault i can find on the album (i guess i could agree that it was overproduced, but no matter what anyone says about WCSE it will always be special to me. i got into liz through WCSE first). well back to "uncle alvarez"- i always find myself skipping over it... i've also come to think of it as the "garbage last-minute" song, since it wasnt on the WCSE sessions original line-up. does anyone else agree with my opinion of that song? and going back to the overproduction of liz's album- you have to admit that it sure did introduce a certain type of music to people that most likely wouldnt ever appreciate it. WCSE is instantly catchy- she easily won new fans due to this album, and these fans probably bought her older cds... EIG and WS really could have opened up the eyes of these people, and introduced them to the world of indie music that they never before would have been exposed too... mike ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 21:03:36 -0500 From: "Brian P. Falk" Subject: leave me alone rocketboyd he said: >...BUT to talk about Liz as a now defunct artist who is incapable of producing interesting work and instead would rather be a self-asborbed mother who doesn't give a shit about anything!!! Well, I think you're the one with the problem.> i say: good god, how old are you? i never said that! all i'm saying is that she's got other things on her mind. which (a)is her prerogative, and (b)is praobably as it SHOULD be!! she has a kid! maybe she's spending all this time that she's not writing and performing on raising her boy! actually, i hope so. but in the meantime, i can read the writing on the wall, and i'm just asserting my opinion. i just don't think she cares that much about making music any more! so what? kiss my ass if you don't want to read it. he said: >Liz has had it rough these past couple of years with her divorce, moving, and raising a child. I can totally sympathize with her need to distract herself and make herself feel attractive.....she's probably feeling a lot of pain> i say: oh my god. cue the violins. i can just see her holed up in her condo, staring at herself in the mirror, measuring her waist 3 times a day to make sure she's still attractive, wondering if she'll ever find love again. what PAIN she must be in! actually, i have no idea what she's going through and neither do you. and it's completely pretentious of you to assume that you do. furthermore, i have my own problems, and not nearly as much money. once again i say, she can do what she wants and i am totally cool with it. if she never ever ever makes another record ever again i will survive, and i will still enjoy all her music just as much as i ever did, which is still a hell of a lot. he said: i say: who said i was bored? i work about 60 hours a week, i have nice friends, a few fun hobbies and, in my spare time listen to lots of pleasing music. did you hear the new mercury rev? not half bad. didn't you see the part where i said i like to watch bob pollard get loaded and caterwaul his own peculiar stuff at GBV shows? he said: i say: i don't mind a bit. what? you got something against l.a.? did you know rob johnson was from l.a.? and do you have any idea how much shit i take for sticking up for that guy? they should give me the key to the god damn city!! he said: i say again: i don't mind at all, i'm just not impressed by it. because i like her songs better. even the ones off the album you say i hate. he said: i say: movie? i think i was absent that day. he said: i say: it's all relative and i believe i mentioned as much. by the way, i am no longer the brian of EIG, and you're right, i hope no one holds it against me. he said: ...................well.......then why should you give a shit about her next album...> i say: WHAT next album!!?? WHERE? he said: <.....or for posting on this list??? I'm sure Liz would ask you the same question........ > i say: hey look, we all have our guilty pleasures, but frankly, i'm her age so if i ever met her i don't think i would want her to know. you know what i mean? after all, what list do you think SHE posts on? the reactionary-fans-of-disinterested-artists.org list? trust me, if liz phair ever comes here, it is when she needs a laugh. as for me, i came here because i didn't want to miss out on any shows when the last album came out, and i'll stay till i'm damn good and ready to go. in any case, i think liz phair would address the whole "controversy" the way i do- with a shrug. it's not such a big deal, rocketboyd. maybe liz would ask you why you feel compelled to behave like her little personal attack chihuahua, when in actuality i didn't even criticize her! did you ever think of that? by the way, i have lots of problems, but succumbing to ridiculous kneejerk reactions at the benign assertions of others is not among them. thank goodness. rocketboyd? your name is rocketboyd? ps: hi katie! love, brian ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:29:02 -0800 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: baby got goin' > I'm trying to think of the right term to define this > passage. Hubris? Chutzpah? Balls-y? I wonder why we > are throwing around names like Brad Wood, Scott Litt, > Michael Penn, and Pete Yorn for the next album when it > is really obvious we have a true producing genius in > our own midsts. I mean, what was Liz thinking all > these years using Brad Wood and Litt with REM when > Dana was so readily available. > > > oh, here we go.... well, ok, i'll bite: see, robert, i have jupiter in aries, the very definition of chuztpah, ballsiness, and ridiculous self-aggrandizement. and, sure, even hubris. still, it's no excuse, i know..... and for the record, i actually was *not* readily available; i never am. i'm usually too busy correcting spelling errors in the entire works of dickens, reformulating DNA, or designing spiffy outfits for me and my "astro-friends." hee haw!! so, once again, anything you can do, i can do better.... penny for your thoughts, luv, dp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:29:39 EST From: IdolinExile@aol.com Subject: Re: uncle alvarez / WCSE production i've gotta say i'm not a big fan of uncle alvarez either. i don't hate it but i don't particularly like it. that along with baby got going, fantasize, and girls room (which i think is a really dumb piece of fluff) are my east favorites off the album ~Sara ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V4 #291 ************************************