From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V4 #243 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, September 24 2001 Volume 04 : Number 243 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Bounced message [owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jason Long ] Jocelyn's favorite Liz song ["HaloJocelyn ..." ] Re: 1st Liz song [Nicole Marie Eisenmann ] First Liz song [Easter ] dana's post [robert joyner ] dana's post [robert joyner ] Re: A Question For Everyone ["Michael Worrell" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 02:03:22 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jason Long ) Subject: Bounced message From: "cheddarcat" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #240 'bronx' does make a lot more sense, but it's always sounded like 'bombs' to me too! [though i agree w/ the rest of jase's interpretation] i'll have to listen to it again.... judy True, I knew I fucked up the lyric royally, but I was to lazy to go and get it out of the car and listen to it again to make sure I got the other parts right. But it really sounded like "bombs" but that's just me hearing what I want to hear. Please don't think I'm too silly... ;-) have a great day everyone! (Sorry, I'm a little excited, I aced my Physics test) Erin > > Except that the lyric is really "Jeremy's talking > about the Bronx/He thinks > it's probably a bad place to be/It's gotta be worse > than Manhattan/Looks > like shit and it feels like America." > > Sorry to rain on anyone's parade. > > > Going to see Sarah Harmer tomorrow night, > > Jase ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 02:05:02 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jason Long ) Subject: Bounced message From: "Patrick OConnor" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #237 <> Another view on this controversy can be found in Richard Frank's "Downfall. The Fall of the Japanese Imperial Empire" A review of the book follows: "The closing months of the Pacific theater in World War II remain a subject of controversy among historians, particularly those with political agendas. At the core of this controversy, of course, is the decision to drop the bomb. Was it truly a military decision, designed to save American lives by making unnecessary an invasion of the Japanese home islands? Or was it, rather, a cynical effort to pressure our Soviet "ally" into diplomatic concessions in Europe? Frank, a Vietnam veteran and military historian, has done a masterful job of recounting the closing months of the war while avoiding the trap of historical hindsight. He strives mightily to re-create the perceptions of American and Japanese military planners, diplomats, and politicians during the cauldron of violence on a massive scale. He places the bomb within the proper overall context of the air campaigns against Japan, and he also stresses the often-neglected effectiveness of the American naval blockade. This is a brilliant, strongly argued, but scrupulously fair examination of these brutal, horrifying, but critical months" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 02:06:53 -0400 From: owner-support-system@smoe.org (by way of Jason Long ) Subject: Bounced message From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: ray of light i'm forwarding something i received yesterday; i think it's important for many people to read and understand this article. this "war frenzy" they are whipping up seems to be working and that truly sickens me. please, please, please pass this article along to as many people as possible. and also pass along that stuff about the CIA/iran-contra. our government is fully accountable here.... and regular citizens should NOT pay the price. god knows we've paid enough already. also, as many of you know i am an astrologer and i and all my "astro-friends" are communicating like mad these days. and one of them said this: this is NOT about fighting for "freedom and democracy." it's actually simpler than that. IT'S ABOUT REDISTRIBUTING WEALTH TO STRUGGLING NATIONS AND THE FAILURE OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT TO ADDRESS/PARTICIPATE IN THIS. now, this is *not* about the american *people* failing to recognize that people need help. god knows many here are always willing and send whatever they can whenever they can. no, this is about OUR GOVERNMENT refusing to institute policies and measures to economically aid struggling nations and for failing to join other nations who have come up with their own initiatives. if this is counterintuitive to you, please recognize that there are many policies and plans that we really have no knowledge of ever being on the table. and also keep in mind that our government has many times armed rebel forces in many countries and helped to establish crackpot leadership there. remember that everytime you hear on the news about the US sending aid to earthquake victims, ok, that's a beautiful thing to do, but it's not the same as devising economic plans to build schools, hospitals, housing, shops, etc. we take so much of that for granted that we really don't know how bad it is for these people. think about that. think of all you have. but don't feel guilty--there's a way that we can ALL "have." if the world economy is restructured in such a way--it could be done where it's not about "taking" from the "haves" and giving to the "have-nots." this does not have to be painful. that's an ugly myth of capitalism. yet, these days all we hear about is that congress has unanimously approved a measure that will cost something like 40 BILLION DOLLARS--to fund a war. now think about this: make two columns in your mind. one is called "restructure the world economy" and the other is "go to war over this." under each column, think of things that need to be done; how would you deal with solving these problems? list all relevant items. now think: for which one can you think of more items? which one fires you up, gets you motivated? which one would give you a purpose in your life? yeah, i thought so. but, hey, many of us are not CEOs, not bankers, not legislators, and so on. it would be hard for us to come up with something to put under that first column. well, not a problem because, you know what? there are many many people around who COULD handily solve this problem. and they are not doing it, either because they don't know they should or because they refuse. this country can no longer isolate itself that way. there are other wealthy nations: england and germany, for example. i have a friend in europe right now and the news over there is that london is on high alert. why? because it's a financial center. i expect geneva is feeling a bit skittish these days as well. now, of course, another part of this is to, ok, probably take down rogue governments--probably by force. dirty business, but if people are gonna be building infrastructure, these fucking freaks are gonna do everything they can to destroy it--they will never have a "change of heart" once they see all the good that's being done. they are lost causes that way.... so the workers and citizens need protection. these two functions would be the BEST use of our military. they are fully trained to carry this out. and, of course, it needs to be under the aegis of NATO forces or something like that--a "world military force." not just us or just france or just germany or whatever. so, right now, what every "joe citizen" in this country can do is make sure that our elected officials will for once carry out our wishes, which this time will include getting involved in renovating the world economy--NOT TO BE THEIR SOLDIERS IN THEIR WAR. right now there are many hunting down these terrorists and it's likely they'll be caught--so that's being taken care of. the best thing we can do is say "NO" to fighting and instead *flip this around* on our elected officials and make them participate in bringing healthy economies to other nations. it's a multipronged approach and there are plenty of people on this planet to bring these changes about. if you feel you don't have something to offer directly, make sure you find people who can and inform them and make sure they do it. there's always a way.... i plan to somehow get in contact with that congressperson from california, i think her name is barbara lee (??; the lone persone who voted against some act that would let GBJr. go to war whenever) and commend her for her insight and just tell her over and over again what i thing needs to be done. ***remember: constant repetitive suggestion.*** ok, here's the article: **************Mir Tamim Ansary on Afghanistan I've been hearing a lot of talk about "bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age." Ronn Owens [2], on KGO Talk Radio today, allowed that this would mean killing innocent people, people who had nothing to do with this atrocity, but "we're at war, we have to accept collateral damage. What else can we do?" Minutes later I heard some TV pundit discussing whether we "have the belly to do what must be done." And I thought about the issues being raised especially hard because I am from Afghanistan, and even though I've lived here for 35 years I've never lost track of what's going on there. So I want to tell anyone who will listen how it all looks from where I'm standing. I speak as one who hates the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden. There is no doubt in my mind that these people were responsible for the atrocity in New York. I agree that something must be done about those monsters. But the Taliban and Ben Laden are not Afghanistan. They're not even the government of Afghanistan. The Taliban are a cult of ignorant psychotics who took over Afghanistan in 1997. Bin Laden is a political criminal with a plan. When you think Taliban, think Nazis. When you think Bin Laden, think Hitler. And when you think "the people of Afghanistan" think "the Jews in the concentration camps." It's not only that the Afghan people had nothing to do with this atrocity. They were the first victims of the perpetrators. They would exult if someone would come in there, take out the Taliban and clear out the rats nest of international thugs holed up in their country. Some say, why don't the Afghans rise up and overthrow the Taliban? The answer is, they're starved, exhausted, hurt, incapacitated, suffering. A few years ago, the United Nations estimated that there are 500,000 disabled orphans in Afghanistan , a country with no economy, no food. There are millions of widows. And the Taliban has been burying these widows alive in mass graves. The soil is littered with land mines, the farms were all destroyed by the Soviets. These are a few of the reasons why the Afghan people have not overthrown the Taliban. We come now to the question of bombing Afghanistan back to the Stone Age. Trouble is, that's been done. The Soviets took care of it already. Make the Afghans suffer? They're already suffering. Level their houses? Done. Turn their schools into piles of rubble? Done. Eradicate their hospitals? Done. Destroy their infrastructure? Cut them off from medicine and health care? Too late. Someone already did all that. New bombs would only stir the rubble of earlier bombs. Would they at least get the Taliban? Not likely. In today's Afghanistan, only the Taliban eat, only they have the means to move around. They'd slip away and hide. Maybe the bombs would get some of those disabled orphans, they don't move too fast, they don't even have wheelchairs. But flying over Kabul and dropping bombs wouldn't really be a strike against the criminals who did this horrific thing. Actually it would only be making common cause with the Taliban--by raping once again the people they've been raping all this time So what else is there? What can be done, then? Let me now speak with true fear and trembling. The only way to get Bin Laden is to go in there with ground troops. When people speak of "having the belly to do what needs to be done" they're thinking in terms of having the belly to kill as many as needed. Having the belly to overcome any moral qualms about killing innocent people. Let's pull our heads out of the sand. What's actually on the table is Americans dying. And not just because some Americans would die fighting their way through Afghanistan to Bin Laden's hideout. It's much bigger than that folks. Because to get any troops to Afghanistan, we'd have to go through Pakistan. Would they let us? Not likely. The conquest of Pakistan would have to be first. Will other Muslim nations just stand by? You see where I'm going. We're flirting with a world war between Islam and the West. And guess what: that's Bin Laden's program. That's exactly what he wants. That's why he did this. Read his speeches and statements. It's all right there. He really believes Islam would beat the west. It might seem ridiculous, but he figures if he can polarize the world into Islam and the West, he's got a billion soldiers. If the west wreaks a holocaust in those lands, that's a billion people with nothing left to lose, that's even better from Bin Laden's point of view. He's probably wrong, in the end the west would win, whatever that would mean, but the war would last for years and millions would die, not just theirs but ours. Who has the belly for that? Bin Laden does. Anyone else? Mir Tamim Ansary ***************************************************************************** *** i am hoping to turn what those in mourning are feeling into a drive for change. i hope i can pull this off.... these are life-defining times right now.... love to all dp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 10:24:51 -0400 From: "Michael Worrell" Subject: Liz at the Recent Telethon I could have been mistaken, but MSNBC just panned over some video of folks working the phones, and I do believe Miz Phair was near Jack Nicholson & Sylvester Stallone, and who looked like maybe Tom Arnold. Go Liz. Might be nice to hear her 'Bars of the Bed' version of the Star-Spangled Banner in the near future. Michael "You think you know what I'm doing, so obviously you don't."---Aeon Flux ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 09:52:49 -0700 From: "HaloJocelyn ..." Subject: Jocelyn's favorite Liz song My ex-boyfriend was always a huge Liz fan. He's now 19 and has liked her since he was in about 7th grade or so. I first heard Liz with him and actually wasnt to impresssed at first. He bought Whip-Smart and made a tape for the car and it became regularly listened to car music. I remember, one weekend, we took a road trip and maybe it was a fluke, but Whip-Smart came on and I fell in love! I remember being like, "Why didnt you tell me to shut up! This is so good!" So yeah, Whip-smart has always had a special place in my heart. I love the line, "and i'm gonna write my whole life story on the back of his big brown eyes.." refering to her son. At that time, Nick wasn't born and he DOES have HUGE brown eyes.. man, she's so great! Jocelyn* _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:04:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Nicole Marie Eisenmann Subject: Re: 1st Liz song Hey all, The beginning of my Liz obsession started in a strange way. I was shopping at Target one day in 1996 and I saw that Whip Smart was mispriced and was way cheap. I didn't really know too much about her at the time, but I bought the CD anyway and fell in love with it. I bought Guyville soon after. One day, late at night, I was cleaning my room with it playing and I heard Flower. I totally stopped everything I was doing and was like "What is she saying!" It was great and I really have been hooked ever since!! :) Hope the new album is out soon!!! Nicole ******************************************************************************** * * * * * * Nicole Marie Eisenmann * * * * * * * * University of Michigan * * * * * * * * neisenma@umich.edu * * * * * * ******************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 11:37:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Easter Subject: First Liz song I would have to say my first Liz song was Flower in my sister's car my freshman year in high school. Didn't hear the song again till three years later when I was discovering Liz on my own and then a bell rung in my head that I had heard it before. Swell, life is grand on a college campus. Spreading the word about Liz of course and what's the first song I introduce to people? Flower. Odd, I've shared too many stories about this song (tape for a crush and KB's shining moment). But it doesn't stop there, they want to hear more and one girl is dying to copy my Girlysound cds. *sigh* If only I could dominate my stereo player cuz my roommate likes Christian music, compared to my likes. Geez...I'm surprised I'm still sane cuz I wouldn't dare play my stuff around her. Well, the Beatles are alright for her. Anyways, I'm never in my room, been hanging out with mostly art majors. Ciao. Katie ();) ===== ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "So play the game 'Existence' to the end." - John Lennon ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:02:36 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: dana's post __________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 20:14:17 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: dana's post Please spare us your treatsie on Pacifism, International diplomcay, world socialism, and other such topics that you and your "astro-friends" discuss. I get lots of info about this situation on the net but the last place I need to see it is from some second rate Miss Cleo on a liz phair list. Robert Joyner ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 00:32:32 -0400 From: "Michael Worrell" Subject: Re: A Question For Everyone Previously, on support-system-digest, "Drew Schultz" asked, >What song got everyone to start listening to Liz? There are two answers to this question; choose what you want. 01. Way back in 1995, (good God, has it been six years?!), a girl I knew brought whip-smart to school and played "Cinco de Mayo" in Spanish class when we were covering the importance of the holiday. At the time, I was distinctively unimpressed, but the name "Liz Phair" stuck in my head. 01a. Later on in the high school career (I think), this girl was on the cross-country team, and played Liz on the bus at a meet. I don't remember exactly what I said, but it wasn't complimentary. Enh, it would be three years or so before I realized the error of my ways. This girl wasn't happy that I'd picked up Liz as a favored artist when I met her a couple of years later. Fast forward to 1998. 05 September 1998, I went and downloaded "Stratford on Guy" from I believe Aaron Walker's site. [1] I was in the Hunt for New Music, and vaguely remembered the name "Liz Phair", so I went out and found the MP3. Needless to say, I decided she was worth an investment---after pronouncing this girl seriously odd---and went to a buddy of mine who had a couple hundred CDs. The local record store hadn't turned up anything, and neither had K-Mart. He sold me his copy of whip-smart, and said "Supernova's a pretty good song. It was popular back when this came out." Loved the disc enough to make a taped copy of it, and just about wore it out. A little bit later, wcse was released, and it became the next album in my collection. I managed to find a copy of EIG on a lark right after the release of Sheryl Crow's "The Globe Sessions", and all was good. Juvenilia followed shortly thereafter, and before 1998 was out, I'd finished off the commercial releases and have enjoyed Miz Phair ever since. Some day, I will see her live. Regards, Michael [1] I did not know the difference between the Girlysound & EIG versions. Color me surprised at the time. "You think you know what I'm doing, so obviously you don't."---Aeon Flux ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V4 #243 ************************************