From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V4 #109 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, April 24 2001 Volume 04 : Number 109 Today's Subjects: ----------------- liz on lead? ["cheddarcat" ] jonatha/dixies/lilith...minimal liz content. [steve the dyke-tyke ] Re: women in power? ["crack head" ] liz being ["DarkSide oftheMoon" ] Re: support-system-digest V4 #108 [Skins1991@aol.com] Liz article in Chicago Tribune [Kenneth Lee ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 01:43:20 -0400 From: "cheddarcat" Subject: liz on lead? > From: "steve kisko" > Subject: long-winded, even for me > > Maybe it's just me, but what's really disconcerting is the excessive number > of musicians on WCSE; you can barely tell which guitar is Liz's. Even then, > it doesn't really matter which guitar is hers because she's got other people > playing the parts (rhythm, leads, bass) that she, back in the good old days, > would play herself, in her own stupidly brilliant way. But when did she ever play bass and lead? Even on Exile, she didn't play the lead guitars herself, or the bass. Those were by Brad Wood and Casey Rice. She didn't do the "leady" leads, I mean. She's got that amazing way of playing really complex rhythm guitar, which to me doesn't even need a lead guitar on top of it, and which isn't much there on WCSE. It comes out clearest in Girlysound stuff, like on 'shane' and 'beg me'. There's no way I'd say Exile was a sellout but in a lot of ways the girlysound stuff is my favorite. If she'd kept doing that sort of low-fi 4-track stuff for the rest of her life I'm pretty sure I would've liked the results a lot more than I like WCSE. Though of course whatever kind of music she wants to make is her prerogative. I remember reading some interview right before WCSE came out and she seemed really nervous about the reception of the new CD, and she said something like ' i just want people to either like it or not like it, and if they don't like it then they don't have to buy it' or something like that, and I thought well that makes sense. I mean I don't mean to judge her lifestyle, god knows what her life is like, being a mother and all is a huge thing and very personal too... it's just that if I'm not into the newest album, well I'd still buy it of course, but I don't know if I'd bother going to see her tour, unless it was going to be just her and her guitar/piano. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 02:04:21 -0400 (EDT) From: steve the dyke-tyke Subject: jonatha/dixies/lilith...minimal liz content. i really dislike jonatha's new record. I can't help but think "this would sound so much better with less instruments"...which it does (saw her at borders). i got to see the dixies at lilith and meet liz. But i did have to sacrifice seeing the almighty Queen Latifah waiting in line for liz :( the dixies are rad, btw. i think lilith fair was weird in general though...it's like the whole bastardization of Girl Power w/ the spice girls. girl power used to be an empowering term, and now it just connotates female-selling power. i read an article from a few years ago about the spice girls, and some Pepsi dick was talking about how "girl power is alive and well--just look at lilith fair!" :P lilith ticket prices went from $25 bucks in 1997 to $80 in 1999. i honestly think it started out as a great thing, but was cashed in on and got dirtied. i feel like lilith fair was very much NextBigThing (more specifically, Female singer-songwriters w/ all-male bands). It's over. Now it's overproduced shit-pop and whiteboyband rubbish. Women are still moving units, but now it's destiny's spears and christina lopez, not jewellanis and sheryl mclachlan. that's my take anyways. go buy the new kristin hersh and butchies records and increase their sales. pissy because im still in a computer lab and it's 2am :( steve ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 11:06:56 -0700 From: carrma@WellsFargo.COM Subject: Reactions to the Liz Interview.... As everyone else has chimed in on this...here's my 2 cents on the Liz Elle interview. I think the reaction to it has been largely negative not because of the content of the article, but rather the lack of content about her music. We have not been hearing a lot from her lately and her next album has fallen into the same limbo wcse did (first quarter of the year is gone and we haven't even heard a release date). What we have seen and heard of Liz has had very little to do with her fan's main point of interests: her next album & touring. The fashion spread, the apple commercial and the Elle interview are just footnotes in her career--but they've gained a lot of attention and importance from us because she has not been touring or released an album in some time. I admit that I was a little disappointed with the article because it did not reveal any information about her music--not the forth coming soundtrack, not her next album--not even the TV theme song she did a while back. To further confound her fans, the interview was done for a publication I would guess few of her fans read and the subject was such that few of her fans could relate to it. Of course the cynical side of me thinks that perhaps she is shifting gears trying to attract a new fan base--maybe the centerpiece of her next album will be her version of "(Spending) Wild Thing" and a re-write of another GS classic to be "Shop or Die". So lace up your mall walkers kiddos it's time to head over to Sam Goodie to pick up Liz's new album "Shop Till You Drop" featuring the new hit singles "I was a Shopaholic Haus Frau" and "CCSS (Credit Card Spendin' Spree)"! I guess I'm not surprised that the focus of the interview was not music considering it was in Elle, but I was hoping for some reassurance that we'd be hearing some new music soon even if it was an after thought in the closing of the article... Had this interview come out on the other side of a major release, I probably would have been amused rather than frustrated. I'm not giving up on Liz quite yet--I just hope the new album is worth the years of anticipation! mike ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:46:09 -0400 From: "Just Another Girl" Subject: Re: women in power? Are there women topping the charts? Yes. Do I, personally, enjoy the artists who are up there? Well, not particularly. And while women do top the pop charts, they're barely on the rock charts. Why? I have been thinking about this for a while and trying to figure it out. First of all, there are many more all-male bands than there are all-female (or at least that I know of). I know of very few all-female rock bands, such as Lucious Jackson, and they haven't really been big chart-toppers either. Bands that have female lead singers seem to do well, like Garbage and No Doubt (although Gwen is kind of her own entity now...). But when that female is all by herself, she just doesn't make the grade. Often there are just one or two songs that get played on the radio for a few weeks and then you never hear them again. And they'll be great songs that you love, but you'll never hear them on the radio after their brief introduction. One recent example of this whole women thing is Poe. She is now being played on the radio, through a kind of "tricking" of the masses. She had to have her brother "singing" (yes, he's just speaking) in the song for it to get played on the radio. Personally, I'm happy Poe is on the radio, but I don't understand why they cannot play the album version of "Hey Pretty" - it is so much better. This is what just seems to happen so often. And while I can hear even the crappiest song off of Eve 6's album (Why "Here's to the Night"? Why??? That's the one song I always skip over on the CD!), I can't hear the best songs off of Liz or Poe's albums. (Oh yes, and what is up with Mudvayne? Why can I hear them on my radio and TV?? Ugh.) Is the option of releasing more singles not offered to these females? Do even their record companies and managers not want them to succeed? I swear, if you put more music out there on the radio, more people will listen to you and buy your CDs! That's how I find 99% of the music I like. I'm sure I'm not all that different from everyone else. Whoops, this got kinda long, sorry. And I know this topic can turn into a whole criticism of men and saying that they run everything and control everything, yadda, yadda, but I would never even go there. I don't really belive that. :-) Women have power, just nobody really knows we do... Hehehe... ~Melinda _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 20:32:59 -0400 From: "crack head" Subject: Re: women in power? You guys can help out the POE mailing list to get Poe better known. :) You can request her video, "Hey Pretty" on TRL today. MTV's been playing her in the middle of the night. Erin - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Emo5858@aol.com To: support-system@smoe.org Subject: women in power? Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:56:43 EDT Actually, I don't think that women have much pull in the charts. Wait. Lemme back up a bit.... There are a few artists, such as Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, Destiny's Child, Faith Hill, that are big sellers and have singles in the - -pop- charts today. But I don't think that the -rock- charts have many, if any, female dominators. Its all Limp Bizkit, Papa Roach, blink 182, Mudvien, etc etc etc (btw, what the HELL is up with mudvien!??! okay, just had to ask that.) I'd just like to know why not? Where have all the females gone? Why is it that everytime I turn on the radio, I have to hear the same 2 songs by 3 Doors Down, instead of some of...I dunno...The Donnas or something? Everything in pop culture nowadays is so testosterone-y. I hate it. Damn it. Okay, back into my seclusion now. anastasia "There's no need for red-hot pokers. Hell is -- other people." - No Exit, Sartre _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 01:50:24 From: "DarkSide oftheMoon" Subject: liz being De-lurking for the following observation.. Everyone must realize that Liz as an artist really in fact owes us as fans nothing. I know that sounds shocking considering it is her fans who have bought her music and concert tickets. But when it comes down to it, she could decide to drop out of the music biz altogether and not do another damn thing. Do any of us want that? I think not. But realize that we are priviledged that she chooses to share with us her talent, just like watching Brad Pitt act or Sammy Sosa belt out a homer, it is the artist who ultimately decides what we as fans get. Do i think WCSE is on par with EIG or WS? No, but it does reflect where she was at the time and more importantly where she is going. I think this trend of slicker production, studio musicians and heading more towards 'mainstream' music on Liz's part will continue. That doesn't make me really happy but I will continue to buy her work and -heaven forbid she ever come to florida- go see her in concert. We take for granted that she owes something to us when in fact I wouldn't see it that way if I were in her shoes either. DarkSide oftheMoon _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:26:08 EDT From: Skins1991@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #108 So what happend to Liz after WS? Why is everyone so down on WCSE? No one seems to be able to nail it down..The reason for this I think is because its still a very good record..The problem with it is that we all know that its just not the same..it doent seem to hit that personal chord that her first two albums did, even though there are many personal songs on the record.. The thing is this..on WCSE Liz has seemed to run out of good ideas... The lyrics are up to par with anything that she has ever done, Go On Ahaid, Love is Nothing, and Perfect World prove that piont. Her singing on the record is good. the thing that is missing are all those charming little background ideas that she always used to have in her songs. Sure the title track sports some cool background music, but whats with all of the "La La La's" in the verses of Polyesther Bride? A far cry from whats going on in Support System.."Ho Ho Ho's" in Uncle Alverez..? A great song gone bad....Big Tall man sports a knock-out chorus, but she relies to much on it..instead of filling in the verses with something,.anything to go behind that boring riff..we get air...not the best sounds shes came up with..On Only Son she kept things simple and this time it works, because her voice with the music make some great atmosphere..Headache has some good old fashioned Liz in the backgroung of that song..as does Ride...Now What Makes You Happy...well its a great song, but it is really a second rate Madonna song, lets leave that music to her.. Over all its a good record..but its just missing some of the charm...hopefully she'll dig some up.. :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:15:28 From: Kenneth Lee Subject: Liz article in Chicago Tribune Hi everyone, Thanks to Stace, I have transcribed an article from Sunday's "Chicago Tribune" (April 22). It is now available for your reading pleasure in the articles section. I have also scanned the accompanying picture from the article, and it is available in the pictures section. Enjoy! - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V4 #109 ************************************