From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V4 #106 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, April 21 2001 Volume 04 : Number 106 Today's Subjects: ----------------- vine, jill sobule, ranting about Napster [LilRussianGirl@aol.com] about people bashing Liz... ["Chris Camboni" ] my apologies [Dan MacDonald ] "go coasting...into a different state..." ["Dana Polachowski" ] my own personal peanut gallery-Elle [Jeska377@aol.com] Re: about people bashing Liz... [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: about people bashing Liz... ["kimberly ann" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:07:21 EDT From: LilRussianGirl@aol.com Subject: vine, jill sobule, ranting about Napster Hey, How is the vine coming? I am eager to hear, too. OK, If you like Jill Soblue, here is a link to a musical eCard promoting her new album. It's a commercial, basically, that plays a sample of her music. http://www.beyondmusic.com/MediaPlayer/JillSobule/StonedSoulPicnic.html I was also thinking that if Liz ever does finish or release a new album it would be nice if she/her label did something like this, too. One more way to expose people to her and her work, that requires no cost, little effort, and no commitment (to those who pass it on or check it out). Just a thought. Is it Ray who works at Capitol? Who wanted the promo ideas earlier? If he's still around, is there anything, any little snippet you can tell us? About the soundtrack or the album? On the other hand, I hate to say it, but after that article.....I don't know. I'm so disgusted I don't know that I even care today. It's not the issue of who Liz is or isn't, was or has been, or who we want her to be -- who cares?! It's more an issue of -- well, it's one thing to have money, but it's another thing to flaunt it so carelessly. Just strikes me as tacky, I guess. And I know it's a bit after the fact, months later, and old news, but now, thinking about it, Napster and free music don't seem like such a bad thing after all. (I've never used it, by the way, and have been pretty undecided about the whole issue until now.) Sure the artists aren't compensated as they should be, have screwy contracts, and yes, I'd want credit for my music, too, but ...I don't know. After that article ... and have you ever seen MTV's cribs? Big houses and 15 cars lined up for one guy to drive? Lord knows *I'm* pretty broke and articles and TV shows like that sure make artists whining about how Napster steals from them sound ridiculous, as I think about it now. Oh, gee, one more meal I get to eat and one less shopping spree that you could have gone on. Boo hoo. Please. Someone said before about how Liz doesn't seem that interested in her own work -- and I guess that's part of why I'm disgusted with it today, too. It seems to me that a lot of the people on this list value her work and are more interested in her career than she is. So why do we care? Sure, we all probably relate to her music or it's affected or influenced our lives in some way, or we wouldn't hold her or her music in such high regard. But whomever said it yesterday said it really well. I mean, think about it: she doesn't want to be a rock star, ( exile -- stage fright), .... No wait, yes she does, (a vocal coach, lots of touring solo and with lilith, and all of her promo work for WSCE) .... (almost three years pass) .... No, now she wants to go shopping instead.... I love her music and I think that I am a huge fan of hers, but when something is important or valuable to me I work really hard at it. If her fans are more interested in her career and progress than she is, well, ....... Just my grumpy damn I got up too early this morning ramblings I guess. - -lrg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:18:26 -0400 From: "Chris Camboni" Subject: about people bashing Liz... I know my opinion means jack to anyone... but I think people need to step back and see the big picture in relation to Liz. I read the Elle article, and came nowhere near the same negative attitudes that have been expressed. Liz is rich now, she's happy, she'd rather raise her son than put out a record to please fans. How can anyone possibly blame her for any of this? She's human, and she can do whatever the heck she wants. Damn, as long as she's happy, who cares whether she buys a new dress every other day? No, there will never be another EIG, but WCSE was still made by Liz, and the next album will still be by Liz. She's changed, her music's evolved and it really pisses me off when people complain about WCSE. How is it a bad record? Because it's different. Screw that. EIG was great because it WAS different. There is nothing mainstream that sounds remotely like any of Liz's albums-- and WCSE is not a sellout because it's more polished. Whatever, I'm just tired of the Liz bashing. Let her be her own person, and like her for what she is-- not what you want her to be. Chris _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 14:23:40 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: my apologies Dammit!! Amps lyrics are fuckin hard to find....sorry man.. guess I can't help you after all. That sucks...now I wanna see some too!! Dan. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:51:58 -0700 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: "go coasting...into a different state..." > I've been thinking she's become a semi-irrelevant pop star, lazy about > delivering her product, unenergetic in terms of maintaining/improving her > technical skill as a musician, and more interested in trading on her > notoriety than doing anything newly important as an artist. Of course, I'd > love for her to prove me wrong with this next record, but I'm definitely not > awaiting it with the same kind of giddy anxiousness I did with the last one. > We'll see how "uncharacteristically cloying" the songs from Julie Johnson > are. If nothing else, I could probably just listen to EIG and Whip-smart for > the rest of my life without tiring. > yikes!!.... but you are so right, i am afraid... this devolution, there were many clues along the way. plus, getting a SAG card immediately upon your arrival in the golden state is a huge clue.... contrary to popular opinion, you don't HAVE to get one when you register for your driver's license. and as for her day job, at least she doesn't have to wait tables or valet. ha ha--there's this line in this one movie i saw (can't 'member what it's called) where this guy and girl are talking and he goes, "so what do you do?" and she goes, "i'm an actress," and he goes, "oh really? what restaurant?" so true... anyways, it's a tough call, 'cause like paige said, "such is the nature of creativity," and i know she knows how to court the muse. it's lonely work, however. so, hmmmmm..... i think if we don't hear anything for awhile it's 'cause she's stuck on a freeway somewhere. she has seasonal affective disorder?? wow--i can relate. that's why i got the hell out of wisconsin. it's the only reason, i swear. i thought, "if i have to face another wisconsin winter i am going to kill myself," and i knew i wasn't kidding.... so here i am, just down the road from liz.... i'm gonna send her a crate of sunscreen. go west, dp ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:54:41 -0400 From: Dan MacDonald Subject: in wake of kim deal... Hey peoples... Everyone has been asking about Kim Deal/Breeders stuff...anyway, a few months back, I took it upon myself to email a bunch of my favorite singers/bands - be really immature and see who emails back. Anyway, of course, Breeders were one of the bands I emailed - and the ONLY person out of all the people I emailed was: The lovely Kelley Deal. Anyway, call me stupid for sending fanmail - but whatever - the Breeders have a BUNCH of new songs - they are performing too...they are doing a show in 2 days at a small club - and I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the club - but they ARE definitely active and definitely working with Steve Albini RIGHT NOW - literally - they have a new drummer/bass player - but it is Kim and Kelley. I think Carrie Bradley might be with them again too..but not sure. ANyway, Kelley mentioned that they really are doing stuff and they are going to put out an album in the near future - they are putting "finishing touches" on the new one right now....so hopefully - Summer/fall release?? Anyway..that's that. Dan. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:12:37 EDT From: Jeska377@aol.com Subject: my own personal peanut gallery-Elle Alright I'll admit i'm a lazy little chickadee, so after much of watching you guys go on about this elle article, i had to check it out myself, you know, fight the laziness..... All I can say is, much as I do love her, she sounds like a superficial snob. But on the other hand, whatever makes her happy, you know? It's not my life, and i really can't sit here and criticize her for her newfound love of clothes. In all honesty i have better things to do (like be lazy, for instance) So all in all, we can all agree she's evolved, and we can all hope for the best on her new cd.....and if she has a shopping problem, well I gues there are worse things to be addicted to...... Peace out guys, Jessica ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:08:01 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: about people bashing Liz... In a message dated 4/20/01 8:21:40 AM Eastern Daylight Time, preconceptions@hotmail.com writes: > ? No, > there will never be another EIG, but WCSE was still made by Liz, and the > next album will still be by Liz. She's changed, her music's evolved and it > really pisses me off when people complain about WCSE. How is it a bad > record? Because it's different. Screw that. EIG was great because it WAS > different. There is nothing mainstream that sounds remotely like any of > Liz's albums-- and WCSE is not a sellout because it's more polished. > Whatever, I'm just tired of the Liz bashing. Let her be her own person, > and > like her for what she is-- not what you want her to be. > > I agree and add that WSCE is my favorite album from Liz. Why, because it's the most mature. I'm not saying she wasn't on EIG or WS, just that she was more grown up then ever on WCSE. And these days I need that. I haven't read the article, but yes, whatever she wanted to do and be is fine with me. If Liz is happy that's all that counts. I'll still be a fan no matter what. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:30:38 -0500 From: "kimberly ann" Subject: Re: about people bashing Liz... Thank You! I was about to write a response to all this and then I read yours. C'mon people let Liz live her life. She's not the same person she was when she was twenty something and made EiG. She's a mom with a son and a husband and doing her best at all of that. I guess i dont find the article shocking because I didnt start listening to Liz until WCSE. I personally love the album, its a more grown up sounding EiG if you ask me. I dont find Liz's love for fashion shocking she's modelled twice for major designers. Let the women dress nice if she feels like it she has the means. And if she doesnt want to make another album what does it matter. She gave you guys some of the best music ever made and I thank her for that. Its not up to us how she portrays herself so quit moaning about it. kimberly ann >Whatever, I'm just tired of the Liz bashing. Let her be her own person, >and like her for what she is-- not what you want her to be. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:06:14 EDT From: IdolinExile@aol.com Subject: Re: about people bashing Liz... ok i finally got around to reading the article...i don't see why it created such a stir. i don't think she sounded stuck up, shes a chick who likes to shop. so what? that doesn't change anything about her. i mean if we all had money like that who can honestly they wouldn't like spending it? everybody likes getting new stuff. at least i know i sure do. if i had her kind of money i'm sure i'd be spending just as much on clothes as she does. you know liz is allowed to have a life outside of her job and shopping is something she likes doing then leave the poor girl alone. ~Sara ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:18:09 EDT From: PJposters@aol.com Subject: Re: about people bashing Liz... Just some more thoughts: The first thing I want to say is that if someone's disappointed by an album, it's a valid feeling. No one can talk you out of it or make you rethink a gut reaction. But this extends to how people in change in general as well. I don't see Liz as markedly different than how she started. She's certainly changed. But she's lived life and she got married and had a baby, and boy, do these things change your perspective on things. I thought I'd be a great fan of Tori Amos and Eric Clapton forever. But they grew and changed, and so did I. And now we're all different. The good thing is that I have "Boys for Pele" and Derek and the Dominos' "Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs" forever to cherish. I'm not particularly bothered by not loving much of the "To Venus and Back" new songs nor the fact that I find Eric's new music to be a bit bland. paige- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:20:49 EDT From: Standingsixfeet1@aol.com Subject: Girls! Girls! Girls! Hey Guys, I was just listening to Exile in Guyville and Girls! Girls! Girls! came on. Now, after she is through singing (the last . . . "what the girls call murder" . . . ) I can hear her say something extremely faint. I can't tell if she's simply muttering that same lyric over again . . . or if it's something else. Anyone know? Thanks. james ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:57:49 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: bashing liz I think that the discontent over liz goes a little further than an article about shopping. I am reminded of a quote about Liz from John Henderson, whom Liz collaborated with before working with brad wood on eig. "I'm reminded of the famous Greil Marcus quote about Rod Stewart, something about how he wanted to be a rock star and all that entailed-sitting by the pool, having sex with groupies and snorting coke-and if he had to write great songs to do it, he was perfectly willing to write them. I think she betrayed her talent in much the same way." ---John Henderson He's basically saying she loves the lifestyle being a rock star provides and if she has to inconvenience herself by releasing an album to enjoy such a life then so be it. As for Chris Camboni asking what the big problem with WCSE was, well here are my two cents. Looking at wcse as a whole, the album doesnt seem on par with whipsmart and eig. This isnt to say that WCSE is a bad album or not worthy of a listen. At times the album sounds exactly like what it is, a album that had four different producers and then a fifth person who mixed the album. While the album has great individual tracks ( such as Go on ahead, uncle alvarez, polyester bride, perfect world, Johnny feelgood, what makes you happy) the album lacks the synergy that was heard in both whipsmart and exile in guyville. Both of these albums, through effective sequencing and a cohesive vision of what was being accomplished and where the music was going, achieved an interweaving of sound message that made the sum of the album greater than the individual tracks themselves. An example of this would be the entire second half of the whipsmart album. Individual tracks such as alice springs, crater lake, may queen, dogs of la, whipsmart are good but not great individual tracks but when sequenced as they were at the end of whipsmart, they create a soundscape that builds and flows from one track to the next. Another example of sequencing would be the final tracks off of each album. Both exile and whipsmart seem to build to a crescendo that is capped of by the perfect closing track. Exiles strange loop and whipsmarts May queen both serve as exclamations points that close out each album note. WCSEs girls room closes out the album on a low key number that goes aginst the typical formula of her previous closing tracks. In addition, WCSE has some of the weakest songs in her catalogue. "Only son" shows potential but ends up sounding half finished. "Love is nothing" doesn't strike me as anything at all remarkable. I'm not a big fan of "Baby Got Going" but i hesitate to even call that a liz song because The only thing liz about it is the fact she sings the song (scott litt wrote both the lyrics and music for this number.) And oh yeah, "Girl's Room" sounds totally uninspired. just my opinion Robert ===== As Charles Barkley told a reporter, "You know it's going to hell when the best rapper out there is white and the best golfer is black." Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V4 #106 ************************************