From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V4 #5 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, January 6 2001 Volume 04 : Number 005 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Little Donnas ["Chipko Arnold" ] RE: support-system-digest V4 #4 [Kelly Warner ] Why Liz Matador [Mike Marlatt ] re: pj / movies...warning, long ;) ["Alfred Madrid" ] Re: pj / movies...warning, long ;) [ReallyHip@aol.com] Re: Why Liz Matador [AWeiss4338@aol.com] RE: Why Liz Matador [Mike Marlatt ] Re: pj / movies...warning, long ;) [steve the dyke-tyke ] Re: Why Liz Matador [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V4 #4 [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] the selling out issue [robert joyner ] on why liz left matador [robert joyner ] Re: on why liz left matador [AWeiss4338@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2001 10:03:52 From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: Little Donnas Dang, forgot to copt their name, but someone said this.. >ps. less than 3 weeks till the Donnas new rock n roll explosion. go >to >www.thedonnas.com to download their first single "40 Boys In 40 >Nights", >or just to look at the slick cover photo on the main page. >now. i mean >it. >grrr ;) ...i just got sent that album and it ROCKS!!! The person who sent it usually deals in harder punk stuff, but some of their stuff is a tad more melodic (like the Vandals), so i was wary of the Donnas, but it's really good. A bit rockier than That Dog, but not too extreme. If you like the Donnas, check out Glitter Mini 9. If i knew their web address it would be such a help. I can't remember if i sent my list of 200 records in as things got crazy just before the year ended... If i didn't then my favourites were Damien Jurado - 'ghost of david' and Calliope - '(in)organics', followed by a load of others... Gotta stop now, my arm hurts after i crashed my bike. Great start to the year. The bike's ok. "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 09:33:02 -0600 From: Kelly Warner Subject: RE: support-system-digest V4 #4 Hi everyone, Out from lurking for a moment to ask if anyone has figured out the tabs to Liz' song 'You Have No Idea'? Please please please, I need to have the tabs (if possible) asap! I beg of you! I'd love if someone emailed me personally with the tabs so I dont have to wait all weekend til I come back into work on Monday ;<) Thanks, Kelly kwarner@trendmasters.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 11:12:49 -0500 From: Mike Marlatt Subject: Why Liz Matador So when I was in New York I went out for dinner with some friends and the girlfriend of one of the people there happened to work for Matador. SO after we got over our initial shock of being out with/as a bunch of yuppies and finding someone who actually new who Matador was and most of their artist (both of us) we talked at depth about Liz and why she left. In short, most people at Matador think she simply "SOLD OUT". Yes, I know, it's a total cliche, but lets face that it may still apply here to a certain degree. Of course Matador must have a certain amount of rejection and bitterness about her parting but, whatever. Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 22:56:23 EST From: Jeska377@aol.com Subject: Miss Matador So by the way, does anyone know why Liz left Matador? She was like their star....I dunno, just wondering, I cant see Capitol being so great for her. Just a thought ~Jessica Mike Marlatt BMO NESBITT BURNS Tel: 443-1622 Fax:443-1524 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 01 08:37:53 -0800 From: "Alfred Madrid" Subject: re: pj / movies...warning, long ;) >wait... are you kidding? i've *never* seen Lopez evidence any sort of... i >dunno, depth. I did like The Cell though, in a way. I do, however, like your >list otherwise- I loved But I'm a Cheerleader!-. you even convinced me to >give Gladiator a try, even without a nude Russell. Well, I think ms. Lopez is pretty darn good! I don't care for her music but I've always liked her as an actress and she has shown depth. She did a damn good job in Selena and I'm being serious here :) > >re: dancer in the dark. > Still waiting to see dancer in the dark... Timecode, Almost Famous, High Fidelity, Chuck & Buck, and Best >in Show. You Can Count on Me and >Christian Bale's in American Psycho. Still waiting for Netflix to send me Timecode, Almost Famous was a great movie as was Hi-Fidelity. Saw Chuch & Buck last weekend and this was such a Fuckin great movie. The characters were amazingly real and natural and it was quite funny too. My favorite Gay movie this year (though I have yet to see But I'm A Cheerleader. Best in Show is a fucking funny and great movie. Haven't seen You Can Count on Me and I did like Bale in Am Psycho but I didn't care much for the movie. I also liked Love and Basketball (I'm a bigtime Basketball junkie, but that's not why I liked it. even my boyfriend liked it and he hates basketball) It had great direction but this was just more of a cutesy type movie (not at all oscar caliber) but it was good... My 2 cents... Al :) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 12:25:24 EST From: ReallyHip@aol.com Subject: Re: pj / movies...warning, long ;) This was the most lackluster year for movies I have ever witnessed... And you are all missing the two best films of the year in your lists! 'Traffic' and 'O Brother Where Art Thou' Go out and see them. I personally can't wait to see "The Gift" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:01:19 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: Why Liz Matador In a message dated 1/5/01 11:32:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, Mike.Marlatt@nbpcd.com writes: > Yes, I know, > it's a total cliche, but lets face that it may still apply here to a certain > degree. Of course Matador must have a certain amount of rejection and > bitterness about her parting but, whatever. > > > > > I can understand Matador's feelings, they lost a big artist for them, but the term 'sell-out' makes me grind my teeth. First, what does that mean? It seems to mean something different to everyone, and I wish there was a fixed definition of it. And yes it's a cliche that I wish would be put to bed for good. To me there is no such thing as as a sell out, as it implies that beig successful period is a bad thing, and that's bunk. What's wrong with wanting to get paid for what you do, and if it's a lot of money so what. That means you must be good at what you do. In every other profession it's like this, but not rock. What's wrong here. Of course, most of the people who are paid lots are crap in rock, but it's snobbish to say that their some how their no good simply because they make money. Britney makes much green and no I don't like her music, but many do, and that's not bad. And anyway how do you know all the teens that like Britney, when they get older, might put her away and go on to people like Liz. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 14:18:36 -0500 From: Mike Marlatt Subject: RE: Why Liz Matador I agree with you, Andrea. Personally I think "sell-out" when an artist or band sells their image to a non-musical corporate entity. Example, Sting having big Compaq adds at his shows (I read about this OK, I WAS NOT AT THE SHOW!!!). Or Faith Hill singing those Pepsi songs on commercials (May God strike her down if she actually plays it in a concert!!!!!). And I would argue that Lou Perllman's pedophile material factory is a non-musical entity so the Backstreets and NSyncs sold out before they even had anything to sell (except what appeals to most of the guys on this list!!!!!!!) Personally, I'm speculating that Liz's association with Capitol led to her being picked up for all those Calvin Klien adds. Not neccesarily directly, but at least indirectly. So although she didn't sell out her musical image to Calvin Klien (YET?!!!) she's "tainted"!!!!! (I'm tongue-in-cheek here so everyone stay calm OK! We like her because she's NOT AN ANGEL, RIght?!!!) Anyone? Mike Marlatt BMO NESBITT BURNS Tel: 443-1622 Fax:443-1524 > ---------- > From: AWeiss4338@aol.com[SMTP:AWeiss4338@aol.com] > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2001 11:01 AM > To: Mike.Marlatt@nbpcd.com; support-system@smoe.org > Subject: Re: Why Liz Matador > > In a message dated 1/5/01 11:32:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Mike.Marlatt@nbpcd.com writes: > > > > > Yes, I know, > it's a total cliche, but lets face that it may still apply here to a > certain > degree. Of course Matador must have a certain amount of rejection > and > bitterness about her parting but, whatever. > > > > > > > > > I can understand Matador's feelings, they lost a big artist for them, but > the > term 'sell-out' makes me grind my teeth. First, what does that mean? It > seems > to mean something different to everyone, and I wish there was a fixed > definition of it. And yes it's a cliche that I wish would be put to bed > for > good. To me there is no such thing as as a sell out, as it implies that > beig > successful period is a bad thing, and that's bunk. What's wrong with > wanting > to get paid for what you do, and if it's a lot of money so what. That > means > you must be good at what you do. In every other profession it's like > this, > but not rock. What's wrong here. Of course, most of the people who are > paid > lots are crap in rock, but it's snobbish to say that their some how their > no > good simply because they make money. Britney makes much green and no I > don't > like her music, but many do, and that's not bad. And anywa! y how do you > know > all the teens that like Britney, when they get older, might put her away > and > go on to people like Liz. > Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 17:28:22 -0500 (EST) From: steve the dyke-tyke Subject: Re: pj / movies...warning, long ;) > wait... are you kidding? i've *never* seen Lopez evidence any sort of... i > dunno, depth. I did like The Cell though, in a way. I do, however, like your hahahaha. i dont know. i always really liked jennifer (before she went bubblegum"...though i did think she sucked in anaconda, but she made up for it when she kicked mega-ass in Out of Sight. i LOVE that movie! What is waking the dead? steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 17:42:35 -0500 (EST) From: steve the dyke-tyke Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #4 >my sister bought that . . . i started laughin really really hard. but >isnt it great? i like the water pistol. . its just wrong. HAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHA. Chilli Pepper Dildo anyone??? ;) steve ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 20:29:43 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: Why Liz Matador In a message dated 01-01-05 14:30:39 EST, Mike.Marlatt@nbpcd.com writes: > I agree with you, Andrea. Personally I think "sell-out" when an artist or > band sells their image to a non-musical corporate entity. Example, Sting > having big Compaq adds at his shows (I read about this OK, I WAS NOT AT THE > SHOW!!!). Or Faith Hill singing those Pepsi songs on commercials (May God > strike her down if she actually plays it in a concert!!!!!). And I would > argue that Lou Perllman's pedophile material factory is a non-musical entity > so the Backstreets and NSyncs sold out before they even had anything to sell > (except what appeals to most of the guys on this list!!!!!!!) > > Personally, I'm speculating that Liz's association with Capitol led to her > being picked up for all those Calvin Klien adds. Not neccesarily directly, > but at least indirectly. So although she didn't sell out her musical image > to Calvin Klien (YET?!!!) she's "tainted"!!!!! (I'm tongue-in-cheek here so > everyone stay calm OK! We like her because she's NOT AN ANGEL, RIght?!!!) > Thanks. That's always been my defination of 'selling out' too, because with comericals it's strictly for the money, and 'selling out' means just that. No offence to all the Elastica fans here, I'm one too, but I was very upset that Connection was in a few comericals, lost a little respect for them with that. And the Boys, britney ect. are just marketing conceprts invented by people to make money and nothing else. Fuuny about Liz:). Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 22:01:53 EST From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V4 #4 In a message dated 1/5/01 12:45:44 AM Central Standard Time, owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org writes: << > 4. What Lies Beneath - Once in awhile, mainstream hollywood comes along > with a movie that completely fucking surprises me >> what lies beneath was my favorite of 2000. i think a lot of you guys just dont like any hollywood movies, and you write What Lies Beneath As One of them. It is really, really good though. Or at least i thought so. i mean, they took a really cliche topic (husbands dead mistresses spirit comes back to hant his wife????) and somehow made a classic (in my opinion). i guess it was long, but i didnt think so since i liked it so much.... i guess Gladiator comes next..... The Cell was a major dissapointment for me (but i guess ever since Jennifer Lopez released her album, anything she does from now on will be a dissapointment for me. there was a time when i thought she was a decent actress) mike ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:20:41 -0800 (PST) From: robert joyner Subject: the selling out issue Personally I think "sell-out" when an artist or > band sells their image to a non-musical corporate entity. Example, Sting > having big Compaq adds at his shows (I read about this OK, I WAS NOT AT THE > SHOW!!!). Or Faith Hill singing those Pepsi songs on commercials or maybe moby when he liscensed the tracks on his album "play" to over 800 different entities. but maybe that is different because moby is a critic's favorite. moby couldn't get his stuff played on the radio or mtv so he had to seek other avenues to get his music out there. whether it be moby selling his music to tv, movies, and commercials or faith hill doing a pepsi commercial the ends that they wish to achieve are higher record sales (which isn't a bad thing, be it moby or faith). It worked for moby. play sold more than five million copies, vastly outselling anything else in his album catalogue. I think that Liz's management has been more agressive in trying to get her similar exposure beginning with the wcse album. Liz's music was liscensed for use on several tv shows (i remember it was on party of five and felicity) as well as movies (she'd all that, high fidelity). there have also been commercial tie ins with the likes of calvin klein and levi's. and oh yeah the theme song for that tv show. i imagine we will see these types of things increase with the release of her next album. robert ===== I'm Only Happy When It's Rains http://www.geocities.com/janetrains2000/ Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 19:50:36 -0800 (PST) From: robert joyner Subject: on why liz left matador Just my opinion but i think that Liz probably got disgusted with the level of hypocrisy that existed within matador. Matador not once but twice used Liz's record sales potential to cut a deal with major record labels to distribute matador product. Outside of Liz, matador's roster of talent at the times of these deals would give little reason to justify atlantic and capitol agreeing to distribution deals. Pavement, JSBX, and yo la tengo may be cult faves but their record sales levels would give little reason for major labels to buy into matador. Women in rock was the buzzword from 94-98 and Liz Phair was a hot commodity. It seems that matador was able to take advantage of this. At the same time, the corporate culture at matador virtually snears at even the appearance of mainstream acceptance. One only need to check the matador website and it's often smarmy news section to realize the vibe of the whole label is a indie hipster doofus mindset. I think that the liz that reappeared with WCSE was a much more business oriented performer, due in part to being under new management and also the fact that her priorites probably changed after the birth of her son. This more business focused performer was evident in the extensive touring she did behind the album, her appearances at lilith, and the increasing marketing her music received. She probably saw the writing on the wall. AS she evolved, the label and liz became an ill fitting match. Their goals seemed to be at odds with each other and the split was beneficial for both parties. as i stated above, just my opinion robert ===== I'm Only Happy When It's Rains http://www.geocities.com/janetrains2000/ Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 00:08:33 EST From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: on why liz left matador In a message dated 01-01-05 22:53:51 EST, robnashville@yahoo.com writes: > Just my opinion but i think that Liz probably got > disgusted with the level of hypocrisy that existed > within matador. Matador not once but twice used Liz's > record sales potential to cut a deal with major record > labels to distribute matador product. Outside of Liz, > matador's roster of talent at the times of these deals > would give little reason to justify atlantic and > capitol agreeing to distribution deals. Pavement, > JSBX, and yo la tengo may be cult faves but their > record sales levels would give little reason for major > labels to buy into matador. Women in rock was the > buzzword from 94-98 and Liz Phair was a hot > commodity. It seems that matador was able to take > advantage of this. > > At the same time, the corporate culture at matador > virtually snears at even the appearance of mainstream > acceptance. One only need to check the matador > website and it's often smarmy news section to realize > the vibe of the whole label is a indie hipster doofus > mindset. > > I think that the liz that reappeared with WCSE was a > much more business oriented performer, due in part to > being under new management and also the fact that her > priorites probably changed after the birth of her son. > This more business focused performer was evident in > the extensive touring she did behind the album, her > appearances at lilith, and the increasing marketing > her music received. > > She probably saw the writing on the wall. AS she > evolved, the label and liz became an ill fitting > match. Their goals seemed to be at odds with each > other and the split was beneficial for both parties. > > as i stated above, just my opinion > I didn't know this, but yes I agree. I can't stand that 'indy hipster' thing. Snobbish and shallow. I have no use for that kind of hipper then thou whining. I'm glad Liz wised up and went elsewhere, she deserves better, and she got it. Andrea ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V4 #5 **********************************