From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #242 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Saturday, September 9 2000 Volume 03 : Number 242 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Bounced message [Jason Long ] Liz's Stairway. [Dan ] yuck [Dan ] [none] ["Katie Brown" ] Re: support-system-digest V3 #241 [Craig King ] stairway again [LazyKimber@aol.com] What the hell? [Jason Long ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 06:18:27 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Chris" Subject: FW: S-K in Portland and Seattle Here's a copy of my post to the Sleater-Kinney list about my recent trip out west to see S-K in Portland and Seattle. This list has been slow and there are a lot of S-K fans here, so I thought I'd share it. It's long, so if you don't like S-K, you might want to skip over it. - -Chris Crystal Ballroom, Portland - -------------------------- I almost didn't get to see the show. While I was standing at the corner of 14th and Burnside waiting to cross the street, I was hit by a van which came around the corner too fast and a little too close. Fortunately, I wasn't hurt at all, just really scared. But if I or the van had been in a different position by just a few inches it could have been serious. If I have to die or get maimed across the street from a venue where S-K is playing, I at least hope it will be after the show instead of before when this happened. I went with my west coast friends Tim and Meloney. I persuaded them to go early so we could get good spots up front. We were the fourth through sixth people in line, right behind Josh from Idaho, a cool guy whom I met that night and who is on this list. We saw Janet and Corin coming in and out, as well as Sarah Dougher and Nathan from the Gossip. I told Nathan how much I had enjoyed Sassy Lassy's dancing on the May tour, and said I hoped they would bring her back. When the doors opened, we ran up the two flights of stairs and grabbed front row spots, just to the left of center stage, but still between where Carrie and Corin would be. As we went by, I noticed the only t-shirts they were selling were the black "Show me Your Riffs" t-shirt and the baby blue "The Bad One" t-shirt from the spring tour. I guess they are out of the orange cat shirts. Almost as soon as we got there, this girl next to us turned to Tim and me said that it was cool seeing that older people liked Sleater-Kinney, too. Tim and I were both amused, as we're only 37, which doesn't seem so old to us any more. She then made some remark about how we were "horning in on our counter-culture". I very good-naturedly pointed out to her that we'd been counter-culture and going to see alternative bands long before she had been, and that we could make a case that it was the younger people who were "horning in", not us. She conceded the point. I then pointed out to her that being old had its advantages, and offered the fact that I'd seen The Clash as an example. She was really envious, telling me how much she loved The Clash, that she wished she could have seen them, and then told me about seeing Joe Strummer recently. So the generation-gap was ultimately successfully bridged, at least for that moment. I was initially disappointed to find out that a third band, Slow, was performing in addition to the Gossip and Sleater-Kinney. I knew that would push everything back an hour or so later, which would feel really late to me, as I was still adjusting to the three hour time difference from the East Coast. Slow had two acoustic guitars and a drummer. I suppose they were entertaining enough. I wasn't crazy about them, but neither was I fervently hoping each song would be their last the way I do when I really can't stand an opening band. The drummer seemed a lot more comfortable being on stage and had more stage presence than the guitarists. As my friend Tim pointed out, the guitarists had a sort of amateurish, "Gee, isn't it cool we're on stage in front of all these people?" aura about them. Right before The Gossip started, an adorable little girl who looked to be about eight years old asked me if she could get in front of me, so of course I let her, after asking her father who was a few rows back if it would be okay. As soon as The Gossip came out, Beth saw her and was quite taken with her. She came over several times and leaned down to talk to her. At one point Beth asked her if she wanted to get up on stage to watch the show. Her father told me I could lift her up there if she wanted me to, but she was too shy, I guess, as she declined Beth's offer. The Gossip were great, as usual. Now that I've seen them so many times, I can't believe that I didn't like them the first time I saw them last May. Every time I see them, I like them more than I did the time before. Nathan's guitar broke, so Carrie loaned him hers. Beth did a good job of keeping the crowd amused during the several minute break while all that was going on. I have to agree with those who have already posted suggesting that Sleater-Kinney's performance was not their best. Don't get me wrong, they put on a good show, and compared to almost anyone else, they were great. But out of the seven S-K shows I've seen this year, this one was by far the least good. Tim said they seemed tired, which I know someone else posted here as well. It seemed to me that Carrie was making fewer than normal guitar-god rock-star moves, which I guess lends credence to the "tired" theory. Initially, they had some tuning problems as a result of Nathan's having borrowed Carrie's guitar. Once those were overcome, we still could barely hear the vocals up front. Someone pointed this out to Corin, who said sometimes that happens up front. She asked if people could hear them in the back, and they shouted "yes". Corin then said "Well, let's turn them up, anyway." It seemed to help a little, but not very much. Apparently, the problem was that the speakers at The Crystal Ballroom are further forward than they are in most clubs. They are suspended from the ceiling, and the front panels are actually several feet beyond the front edge of the stage. So those of us in the very front were in a sort of no man's land between the speakers and the monitors, and thus not getting any amplified vocals. Where I was, we mostly heard Carrie's amp, which seemed to be a lot louder than Corin's. I guess what we experienced was what it was like to be on stage back before they had monitors, like in all the famous stories about the Beatles singing off key when they toured because they couldn't hear themselves. So I found the experience sort of intellectually interesting, but not an ideal way to hear my favorite band play live. I might remember this and position myself further back or even in the balcony if I ever see them at the Crystal Ballroom again. I was still happy seeing the band up close for the first time since the Chapel Hill, NC show last May. And they performed my favorite song, The Drama You've Been Craving, so I was pretty much in heaven in spite of the sound. I also shot almost three rolls of film, and between being so close and the excellent lighting in The Crystal Ballroom, most of the pictures came out great. At one point during a between songs break, Carrie said that Beth from The Gossip had called her up a few days earlier and was thinking about leaving Olympia to go back to Arkansas to attend hair-dresser school. She asked how many people thought the should, and of course nobody responded, except to boo. Then she asked how many people thought Beth should stay, and the crowd cheered wildly. After the show, we were in the long slow-moving line to get down the stairs when the elevator opened up right next to us. So Tim, Meloney and I got on the elevator. It opened again on the second floor, and Beth from The Gossip got on. I asked her if she were really considering going back to Arkansas to attend beauty school, and she said, "yes." I told her I'd seen her band several times this year, thought they were great, and really hoped she would stay in music. Then I told her, too, how much I had enjoyed seeing Sassy Lassy dance with them earlier in the year. So Sassy, if you're still on this list, I did my part for you, putting in good words with both Nathan and Beth. Meloney had never seen Sleater-Kinney before, and said she thought the show was great. I only wish she could have seen a better show with better sound, as I'm sure she would really have been wowed by some of the S-K shows I've seen. Bubmbershoot, Seattle - --------------------- Speaking of better shows with better sound, the Seattle show was guilty on both counts. Tim and I got there early once again and got in line near the front. A few minutes later we saw Josh from Idaho again, who got in line about 20 people behind us. The line rapidly got longer after that. Eventually, they moved the start of the line up to a place much closer to the entrance to the Arena, so that there would be room for the whole line. After what seemed like an eternity they let us go in, with security people placed all along the route yelling at us not to run, which of course we and lots of others did anyway. We ended up in almost exactly the same place we had been in Portland, in the very front row, just a little towards Carrie's side of the stage from the center. The security people made us stay back about three feet from a barricade which had been erected about five feet in front of the stage. In that five foot "DMZ" security zone were about fifteen or twenty yellow-shirted security guys. They told everybody on the arena floor that we had to sit down, which I thought was strange. While we were waiting, an old man came up and squeezed himself in between the second row and our front row, right behind us. I overheard him say something to someone about saving places for his daughters. If only I'd known the aggravation that this would cause later... After about half an hour, a security guard leaned over to my friend Tim and said, "We're about to tell everyone they can stand up. I want you to stand up first. You're my 'point man'. When you do that, they might start pushing forward, so be prepared for pushing. It'll probably be okay, but I'm required to warn you." Just hearing him be so serious about all of that was bizarre! Then he looked at Tim and me both and said, "Okay guys, stand up." We did, and then everyone else did right after us. There was some pushing at first, but it wasn't too bad. Outside Key Arena, there had been a sign saying photography was forbidden and film would be confiscated. So before the show started, we asked the serious-minded security guy in front of us if we could take pictures. He said we could, because everyone did and it was hopeless for them to try to stop it. "We're not going to take your cameras," he added emphatically. But as soon as Sleater-Kinney came out on stage and people up front started taking photos, a lone blue-shirted guy who appeared to be the boss of the yellow-shirts started running up and down the "DMZ" putting his hands in front of peoples' cameras and saying photography was not allowed. I shouted out "Hey, Carrie, can we take photos?" She looked over, seemed a bit puzzled for a second, then seemed to realize what was happening and answered, "Yes, of course." Then Mr. Blue-shirt told me it didn't matter what she said, because it was Bumbershoot policy that only the media could take photographs. It was funny, because he and his yellow-shirted minions could only stop people in the first three or four rows, while flashes were still going off constantly from everywhere else, all over the arena. It seemed unfair in a way, but I just figured not being able to take photos was the price we would have to pay for being up front, just like having bad sound was the price we had paid in Portland. About half-way through the first song, he came back and told us we could take photos. Tim thought maybe someone else higher up than him (who knows what color shirt a person with such authority would wear!?) had heard Carrie and straightened him out. That may be, but my theory was he noticed what I did, i.e. that the majority of the crowd was photographing away, and figured he might as well let us up front folks do it, too. I shot about three rolls at this show also. They didn't come out as well as the Portland shots because Key Arena was darker and I was further away from the stage due to the barricade, so my camera's flash was less effective. But I still got some good photos. Also during the first song, this young woman, who hadn't been anywhere near us when we'd arrived and been forced to sit down to hold our places, shoved her way up to right behind me and then kept fairly violently kneeing and elbowing me, trying to get in front of me. I figured I'd invested the hours in line to pay for being in front, and she hadn't, so I resolutely held my ground. When I turned around, I realized she was the daughter of the old man who had shoved his way up to right behind me earlier. Like father, like daughter, I guess. After she realized she was not getting anywhere with me, she moved over and tried the same thing with Tim. When he wouldn't let her in front of him, she yelled, "Oh, come on, you're so much taller than I am" really loudly. He turned around and told her that if she'd asked nicely instead of kneeing and elbowing, he probably would have let her in front of him, but since she hadn't, there was no way he would consider it. So she moved further away and started aggravating other people, I guess. I was just really happy she was gone. Tim then overheard her father tell her "I could kill them, but two more like them would just take their place." What a great father and role-model! Carrie and Corin came out wearing straw hats, and each held a stack of other hats they obviously intended to throw out to the crowd. After one or two songs, Carrie threw one in our area which I jumped up and caught. But as I was reeling it in, my "friend" the old man started grabbing it away from me. I guess it would have been cool to have a souvenir which came from Carrie, but I was in no mood to get into a tug-of-war over a cheap straw hat with an old man. Also, I had no desire to have any further conflict or even interaction of any kind with any members of the rude-and-violent family, so I just let go and allowed him to take it from me. He promptly gave it to his all-knees-and-elbows daughter, and I'll admit I was a little irked that she ended up with "my" hat. But I wasn't bothered by her or her father any more the rest of the evening, so letting him have take it from me was worth it. This show was amazingly different from Portland. I've never seen Carrie, or Corin for that matter, so animated. Carrie exhibited more of her cool dance moves than I've ever seen, and Corin was pretty flashy, too. Tim was impressed that they intuitively knew that bigger moves were called for in a bigger venue, even though they don't have a lot of experience playing in such large sites. He told me about seeing U2 on their first stadium tour, and how they were boring because they played like they were still in a small club, and you could hardly tell that they were even moving from far away. The sound was perfect, too. As Tim pointed out to me, this time we were well in front of the speakers. At one point someone threw up a sign to Corin that said "You are the hottest in town". She seemed really amused, and held it high up over her head. (My photo of this came out looking truly bizarre. You can see her torso and face, and then her hands above her head holding the sign, but her arms don't show up, so the hands look like they are disembodied. It's cool!) There were some people in the first few rows immediately in the center, just to my right, who got a little bit violent with their dancing. The security guys kept getting on them, and Corin gave them some stern looks. They cooled it after a while. Later, some people started crowd surfing, which was annoying, as we didn't really expect that at a Sleater-Kinney show. Tim and I, and I'm sure numerous others, were kicked in the head a couple of times. It was during this time that Corin sang a verse about how the floor was hard and people should be careful, as someone else mentioned. After a while, people got fed up with this distracting behavior and started passing the surfers directly to the front. Then those of us up front were passing them on to the yellow-shirts who escorted them out of the arena. After that happened to about five people in a row, the consequences of crowd surfing seemed to strike brain with everyone else, and nobody did it any more. During a between song break right after all this activity Carrie quipped that, "If this were Jeopardy, the answer would be, 'These are the kind of people who come to Bumbershoot.'" During one song Corin seemed to have some sort of problem which made it where she couldn't sing for a couple of several-second intervals, during which she was making faces sort of like she'd swallowed something sour. I guess she had a frog in her throat, as they say. Fortunately for her and for us, she seemed to get over it quickly, and soon her one-of-a-kind voice was back in top form. After that, nothing eventful happened, and they finished up one of the best and most entertaining sets I've ever seen them play. I forget exactly what encores they played, but I remember the first one was Get Up, which Carrie said they would play because someone up front was holding up a big sign requesting it. Between encore songs, Carrie asked the crowd if we were sticking around to see Ronnie Spector, who was the next act at Key Arena. I yelled "no", because, well, we weren't, we were going out to eat. Apparently, I underestimated the power of my lungs, because it came out a lot louder than I intended. I was not trying to make any sort of statement, but I guess Carrie thought I was because I was so loud. She looked right at me, with a half amused / half confused look, and asked, "Well, why not?" Before I or anyone else could say anything, Corin started talking about how Ronnie was one of the pioneers of rock 'n' roll and then started singing one of her old songs from the 60's. There was no second encore, probably due to the tight Bumbershoot schedule. Overall, this was one of the best Sleater-Kinney shows I've ever seen. Performance-wise, I'd rate it second, just below the Washington, DC show from last May. I only give the DC show the edge because they played so many more encores there. Total enjoyment-wise, I might rank it slightly lower, due to the rude-and-violent family and the other people kicking me in the head when they were crowd surfing. Tim, my Seattle friend, said the crowd was like that because it was a Bumbershoot crowd, not a Sleater-Kinney crowd. I guess he was right. I know the Showbox crowds in Seattle at the record release shows I attended last May were not at all violent. And it seems like Carrie agreed with him, too, based on her Jeopardy joke. Now I'm looking forward to Sleater-Kinney coming to my turf on the 27th at the 9:30 Club in DC. Chris ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 09:53:45 -0400 From: Dan Subject: Liz's Stairway. Okay, Stairway to Heaven was like, the long, epic masterpiece that had the most perfect pieces of guitar, and the most vague and thoughtful lyrics. Everyone just knew it was a classic. I would have to say the song that fits this best fits this description and that I doubt anyone will disagree in saying it is a masterpiece - is "Shatter". Always been my favorite anyway. NP - Belly, "King". out of it, Dan. %&%&%&%&%%%%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&% "You leave with everything...." -Hole. *******************************^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 10:18:39 -0400 From: Dan Subject: yuck I just re-read my post and I am embarassed by the awkward wording. I hate when that happens. don't you just fucking CRINGE when you send a post to the list without proof reading, then you read it and it makes you sound like a complete dork???? Dan. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 14:50:49 GMT From: "Katie Brown" Subject: [none] >>>Katie Brown - One last try. How was the Jen Trynin movie from forever ago? And where is it now? I hope its not in the same place as that Throwing Muses documentry. Isn't that what the Sundance channel is for?<<< Bill in CT, you did it. you brought me out... i have been meaning to post forever but i'm just so damn lazy. i'm also terribely hungover right now, i turned 26 yesterday! 26 is my lucky number so i'm *psyched* and i'm getting ready to see Phish open there fall tour tonihgt in Albany. Ruthie showed up with roomies last night and when i got home i had a package from Katie Lynne ( ); ) (oh mygod it just took me ten minutes to type that) so i was feeling the love from my sup systers! thanks ladies! that film, Payoff, was fantastic. really great. there really was not that musch on jen trynin, but it had a few sweet interviews, and the closing scene was Jen performing "everything" at the middle east. it brought tears to my eyes honestly because she is so powerful, just really pissed off at the industry. and the lyrics in that song are so strong and real. her general disgust with it was evident in the film, but she was really funny and light in demeaner, not angry. the main point of the film was that women can and do rock. laurie geltman had a hilarious point about her many converstions with people like radio dj's and magazine reporters... when people asked her what she did, and she told them she was a musician, most likely they asked, "oh you're a folk singer." and she's like, "uh, no. i rock." like people think becuase she a woman... who might have a band but still it's her name on the ticket... that she's not a rocker. a rock gutiarist, a rock singer, just plain ROCKER. on that note, i'll say the Liz fucking ROCKS man. i love listening to liz phair. i dance around my apartment shitfaced last night singing every word. i also ate some pizza with broccoli on it and it was phenomenal. *smooch* later katiebrown _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 08:51:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #241 >> What does everyone think is the "Classic" Liz Phair track? Her "Stairway to Heaven" if you like. I don't mean YOUR favourite song, I mean the... well, you know what I mean.<< I think you could take that question two different ways, so if your talking about the song she's most known for I'd say either "Supernova" or "Fuck and Run". If your talking about her 'opus' I think that's little tougher. She doesn't really have an 'opus', but I think the song with the best overall sound/mood is either "Stratford-On-Guy" or "Blood Keeper". Too bad "Blood Keeper" was never released. I think she's sitting on a goldmine with that song! Another song I've been listening to alot recently is "If I Ever Pay You Back". Does anyone else love this song? Like "Beginning To See The Light", this song so perfect in every way. Great lyrics, great mood, great vocals. Anyone else agree? Craig NP: Stone Temple Pilots - No.4 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 16:08:54 EDT From: LazyKimber@aol.com Subject: stairway again not to say i forgot it, i just didnt think of it at the time divorce song now thats a masterpiece k ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 00:35:28 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: What the hell? Okay, I almost never watch TV, but out of boredom, I turned it on tonight, more as background noise than anything else. Wasn't really paying attention until out of nowhere, I heard something that sounded a little too familiar... "Nah, it couldn't be." Turning my full attention to the TV, much to my horror it was. Now just one question: What the hell is the Breeders' "Cannonball" being used in a car commercial for?!? Has anyone else seen this? Blown to hell, Jase ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #242 ************************************