From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #169 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Friday, June 23 2000 Volume 03 : Number 169 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: he should know (better) [Jason Long ] weave my disgust into fame ["Dana Polachowski" ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Re: weave my disgust into fame [Emo5858@aol.com] WCSE Sessions [Kenneth Lee ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 06:04:26 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: he should know (better) o wrote: >i'll bet liz's 3 albums have sold an average of 250,000 each (i may be >wrong, but i'd take the bet). i'll also bet she hasn't ended up with just >$4,000 X 3. she's been with matador, atlantic, and capitol. she watches >out for herself. Actually, both _Exile in Guyville_ and _Whip-Smart_ were certified gold in 1998, each selling more than 500,000 copies to do so. _Exile_ sold 200,000 copies alone in its first year of release. The last figures I heard for _whitechocolatespaceegg_ date back to April 1999, and at that point, it has SoundScanned 207,000 copies. One thing to remember is that SoundScan doesn't reflect all sales, just those from stores that participate in the system. Virtually all of the big chain stores do, but only a percentage of indie stores participate. As well, I'm not entirely sure whether or not copies sold through outlets such as Columbia House are reflected in SoundScan figures either, although I do know they count towards total sales for RIAA certification. It's a safe bet to say that Liz has seen royalties for both _Exile_ and _Whip-Smart_. Neither cost much to make, nor was a lot of money spent on videos. I believe Liz received an advance of only $3000 for _Exile_, which wouldn't have taken long for the label to recoup. Liz was always signed solely to Matador in the past -- she was never signed directly to Atlantic, and has only been signed to Capitol since their alliance with Matador ended. While her records were released with the imprints of these major labels, that was more or less just for distribution purposes and was a result of Matador's deals with those labels. Liz certainly did benefit from the infusion of cash Matador received from their distribution agreements; when she signed a bigger deal with Matador following _Exile_, she received a six-figure advance. It's hard to say whether or not _whitechocolatespaceegg_ has made Liz any money yet or not; a fair amount of money was put into promoting it, but its sales have yet to reach the same level as the records that preceded it. Also, it was a much more expensive record to make; Liz worked with a greater number of musicians and, for much of the record, a big-name producer (Scott Litt). It took a long time to make as well, with many of the tracks being redone multiple times and more than twice as many songs being recorded than eventually found their way onto the album. >sleater-kinney sell around 100,000 copies of every disc >they release. but they make a living doing it. on the other hand, >reasonably good bands like weezer probably sold more copies of one record >than liz ever has, and probably got royally screwed. Most indie bands can make a decent living while only maintaining sales around the same level as Sleater-Kinney's. Most of the bands and their labels realize that they're not going to crack MTV or commercial radio, so they don't bother spending much money trying to pursue these avenues. Most major label artists, however, end up spending a lot on videos, half the cost of which is recoupable through their royalties -- and still with no guarantee that the video will even get any airtime. As well, many of the indie labels pay a slightly higher royalty rate than the majors do, perhaps because they don't have the same level of overhead and other operating expenses to cover. Lower recording budgets and smaller advances also help ensure the artists can make money while selling fewer records. Also, most of these bands don't have so many business people (managers, lawyers, publicists, etc.) working for them and taking a cut of their money. Sleater-Kinney will likely stay where they are and continue to do well, maybe even expanding their audience a little further with each new record. As for Liz, if anyone can find a way to work within the system and make it work for them, it'd likely be her. As you pointed out, she does look out for herself. Other mid-level major label artists might be better off if they were to get dropped and end up on some of the larger indie labels, where they can still get wide distribution of their records, while maybe turning a profit on them. The gutsiest of them might want to follow Aimee Mann's lead and start their own labels to release their albums and sell them online, while negotiating deals with distributors to get them into retail stores as well. According to Aimee's manager in a post he made to Mannlist several months ago, none of Aimee's previous albums had recouped at that time, so she wasn't seeing any royalties from them. My guess is that _Bachelor No. 2_ is already turning a profit for her; she's sold a considerable number of records in a short time, she doesn't have to worry about a label taking their cut, and not a lot has been spent on promotion. Of course, in her case, she's still benefitting from the buzz the Magnolia soundtrack generated and all of the resulting press; other artists who may follow her example will likely have a tougher time. Right now, it really feels like we're on the verge of seeing a lot of changes take place in how music is both marketed and sold. I think that if the major labels don't start offering contracts that are more artist-friendly, we're going to see a new system take shape around those who pursue other options for getting their music out. I'm really curious as to what will happen and don't care what exactly it may be, as long as I'll still have easy access to getting the music I want. Jase NP: The Spinanes, _Arches and Aisles_ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:14:59 -0700 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: weave my disgust into fame > d) probably my primary point in all this: it's *supposed* to be hard to > earn a living as an artist of any stripe. if it wasn't hard to earn a > living, then everyone would do it. and, to be honest, only about 1% of the > population has the talent and intellect to do it. see, i don't know about this.... i totally get what you're saying and i can see how he's probably skewing things to make his point, but there's still a good point in there. hmmmm; ok: well, here's what i'm saying about "i don't know about this": many (recording) artists who "make it" aren't necessarily all that talented. i mean, it's relative, but there are other factors involved. because--ha ha--if your star is rising, you're gonna be ok, basically. that may or may not have anything to do with talent and/or hard work. as jason pointed out with our liz, LUCK had a lot to do with her success. she did the work, no question, but collusive "forces," let's say, pushed her to the fore. now, she's maintained because she's no dummy businesswise; furthermore, she *does* know when to flash her boobs. with the example you're using, writing, it's a different story; you can't be a complete f**cking moron and make it as a writer--it's just not gonna happen. but music is different. i'm just saying that for those in music who DO have the talent and then don't have the looks and/or that pathological drive to "sell" themselves, be out in front of people (i'm thinking of, say, jennifer lopez here), and/or lead "interesting" lives, when they get their opportunity, they get royally screwed. this makes no sense. i think these people *should* be able to succeed. the way things are structured, they can't and i really don't think it HAS to be that way, i really don't. plus, if it was "easier," i don't think "everyone" would be doing it, much as i wish everyone would try--it takes too much time. plus, you'd have to subject yourself to public opinion, and that is NOT easy. i think the current system actually *prevents* a lot of talented people from trying; you have to be sorta nuts to put yourself through all that stuff. like i said, most people just wanna do the work--make music--they don't wanna have to deal with "being famous" and all that happy horseshit. so, i guess my question is--and, geez, i probably should be taking this off-list, but maybe others want to join in--how do you actually really do this yourself? i keep screaming about how technology is gonna save us and put the creative tools in everyone's hands and blah, blah, blah, but here i am, dumb as a post, wondering how this *actually* happens. ha ha ha--i've been trying to figure this out since i posted about it that last time and i'm stuck.... what an idiot. like, can anyone generate a balance sheet on that? (on how much it costs to make your own music, not on how stupid i am.... don't break your computer--please). so, help me, mary, please.... ... did anyone see "sex and the city" where miranda reaches into her drawer and finds... mary (?) i mean, i DO need that kind of help, but that's another post.... dp ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:40:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Easter Subject: My fond memories of the Phest 2000 I dunno if any of my comments would count, since I wasn't able to hang out at the bars and do whatever the hand thing I kept hearing all day on Sunday. *shrugs* Only 14 more months to go till I can do silly things like that! Well, here are my fave moments: Getting lost on I-94 for the billionth time with Craig, in other words...the whole afternoon and early evening of last Thursday. ;) Asking for ranch dressing on my salad in a Cajun restaurant. What the hell was I thinking?! Not caring where we went to eat, as long I was able to use utensils cuz I might have forgotten how to do so. Wondering what Jorge was writing in the book of his. Btw Jorge...how's the script coming along? ;) The evil bus lady. *shivers* Everything that I did on Sunday - the Cubs game and the Yo La Tengo concert. Always being the first one to wake up in the morning. YEAH! :D *sigh* Memories. Katie ();) ===== ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "Twenty thousand faceless names, this is your show." - Chantal Kreviazuk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:03:23 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Katie Derdoski" Subject: My random two cents Well, first let me say that I am soooo jealous that I couldn't go to LizPhest. Sounds like it was a fabulous time. What prompted me to write was the "rediscovered" thread. Let me just say that I LOVE Portishead, and I totally go through phases with it. I "rediscover" them once a year or so. But I always think they are great and rave about them anyway...silly I know. REM is my favorite band hands down, and I too recently rediscovered Monster. I go through phases of which album is my favorite. Usually it's Murmur, but sometimes it is Automatic and other times it is Up. Anybody like the Traveling Wilburys? I have always liked them, but recently, I havent' been able to stop playing them either! << Staskauskas i think, is a VERY greek last >name, lol. i could be wrong tho Sounds Polish to me, but I could be wrong. ;) >> Hey hey hey....leave the Polacks out of this. I'm Polish! Just kidding. That name is most definitely NOT Polish though! ;) Jase, I read the Courteney Love thing, and I think it was really great. You're right, she did her homework. Thanks so much for mentioning the speech. Ken Lee, every time I try to email you about the WCSE sessions, I get a return to sender thing. Could you email me instead? OK now I've proved why I should not post. They're boring. Thanks for at least scanning it though... - --Katie ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:04:29 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: "Shelly" Subject: Re: Jen's ? about Melissa... "Also, any fans of Melissa Etheridge? Jen..." Yes, I Am. (Okay, was that cheesy enough for ya?) Melissa is my favorite female musician. Don't get me wrong, I love listening to Liz & many others, but if I absolutely had to choose, it would be ME. Although, I didn't feel quiet the same about her latest CD, _Breakdown_, as I have about some of her past. ones. The first and self-titled _Melissa Etheridge_ will always be my very favorite. The second release _Brave & Crazy_ has some very strong tunes, and a couple that are *good*. _Never Enough_ , then the one that really was her "breakthough" album _Yes I Am_. _My Little Secret_, and the latest one, _Breakdown_. You can really get a good sense of her "maturation", I guess on the last two. I dunno, I've never really sat & thought hard about it...just rocked w/ it. Out of curiousity, which one is the one you've got...and which songs are your faves? Gawd...I *wish* I had Liz news...and keep up the Chicago/Liz Phest stuff, it's fun to read! ~gunshy~ Shelly ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:33:54 EDT From: Emo5858@aol.com Subject: Re: weave my disgust into fame In a message dated 6/22/00 12:29:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dpolachowski@mindspring.com writes: << so, help me, mary, please.... ... did anyone see "sex and the city" where miranda reaches into her drawer and finds... mary (?) i mean, i DO need that kind of help, but that's another post.... >> funniest fake me out vibrator scene I've ever seen. that show rules. On a more sour and complain-ey note, I went to like the only record shop that they have down at the beach to see whether they have any rare liz stuff (it looked indie so I figured it'd be worth a shot). But THEY DIDN"T! Went right from Pentatutech to Phish. WHat the hell is that about?!?!? Yeah, they can have a whole BUTTLOAD of Melissa Etheridge stuff but no Liz????? I was irate. But I did get 'Volumen' by Bjork/ "hyperballad" is -the- most innovative and visually stunning music video I have seen to date. The director is a f'in genius. Thats it... xoxo ana btw sorry to dp, I sent a reply to -her- and not to the list. mwha ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ W W J T D ? ~ W H A T W O U L D J U S T I N T I M B E R L A K E D O ? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:11:38 From: Kenneth Lee Subject: WCSE Sessions For those of you who've been posting asking about how to get WCSE Sessions, here's what you can do. Email me privately at kenmlee@ix.netcom.com and I'll give you the details. - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #169 ************************************