From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #154 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, June 8 2000 Volume 03 : Number 154 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: "there are those who call me.... TIM!!!" ["Jason Long" ] mermaid avenue II et al. ["sam" ] Re: support-system-digest V3 #153 ["christine m." ] RE: Born Entertainer [Dan ] Re: "there are those who call me.... TIM!!!" [AimeeRoadie@aol.com] Re: born entertainer [Vasant Ramamurthy ] 7 veils [valerieb@mindspring.com] hey Rose... ["Chipko Arnold" ] Re: support-system-digest V3 #153 [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Re: "there are those who call me.... TIM!!!" [Jason Long ] Tabs and more than 20 ways.... [Emo5858@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V3 #153 ["Dana Polachowski" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 01:29:55 EDT From: "Jason Long" Subject: Re: "there are those who call me.... TIM!!!" dp wrote: >which bring me to my next point, which gets into what you brought up about >how there's been an evolution from painting to music. i want to expand on >this. i think the evolution of art is about putting the tools in the hands >of every girl and boy across the land. painting was overshadowed by >photography, one of the main reasons being that you could "portray" >something as it really "appears," first of all, and-- >here's the clincher--quicker and easier. we sort of got into this on the >indie label/indie artist discussion and how, with god's help, *anyone* can >make their own CDs and sell them. all this technology is gonna make it >easier for anyone to be a video artist on monday, a photographer on >tuesday, a musician on wednesday.... i mean, how cool is that?! > >it's all about manifesting your ideas as quickly and easily as you can. >some may bitch about "quality" and yadda yadda yadda, but art is about >*communication*.... and, yes, EFFORT. but it's also about giving an idea a >soul that everyone can see. people, listen to me: go out and do this any >way you can. this world NEEDS it; i'm not kidding. One of the things that I find most interesting about Liz is how she set out to make her mark not with music, but with visual art instead. Music was just a hobby she did on the side. The Portastudio she used to record her songs is a good example of putting technology into people's hands that is not only easy to use, but an effective tool for creating art. With painting, it could have taken years for Liz to really have had any impact at all or to make a name for herself, and even then, it would have been on a much smaller scale. But music is a much more immediate artform and Liz was able to reach more people more quickly. I think part of the problem is also that, at least among the people I know, most of our generation has little interest in visual art. None of us may have ever heard Liz's name or got to see her creations or become familiar with her perspective. But for most people, music is an everyday thing -- who goes an entire day without listening to a single song? One of the things that also amazes me is just how much luck has been involved in Liz's career. I think one of the things that makes her so special is the fact that it's simply amazing any of us got to hear her at all. What if Chris Brokaw had never overheard her playing guitar while visiting her roommate? What if he hadn't encouraged her to make him a tape? What if Liz hadn't bothered to make the tape, then give copies to both Brokaw and Tae Won Yu? What if they hadn't made copies for other people and the tapes hadn't ended up in all the right hands? Liz's career has been one long string of incredible luck and coincidences. We are extremely lucky to even have her music -- she never set out to share it publicly with anyone. In my opinion, I think that Liz Phair is the voice of our generation. The weird thing is that, as talented as she is, it's incredible that we ever got to hear that voice. I think we sometimes lose sight of this, whenever we complain about Liz taking so long to release new music or not touring as much as she could or any of the things that make people wonder how seriously she takes her music career. I think a lot of us project upon her what we expect a musician to be - -- the kind who set out to pursue music as a career and for whom it's all they've ever wanted and worked towards. Liz doesn't seem to be a careerist, though; at least not on that same level. I sometimes wonder if the reason why Liz seems to take certain things for granted is because she's never really had to work for them the way others have. She didn't anticipate her success; she more or less had it happen to her. That's why it was probably so easy for her to almost walk away from it all once before. I've been thinking about this lately in relation to how impatient I am for the new album to come out. Ultimately, though, I've decided that if it doesn't happen this year after all, I'm not going to be as disappointed about it as I was with all of the delays surrounding WCSE. It's all too easy to take the idea of new Liz music for granted. >NP: pavement "wowee zowee".... "*fight* this generation.... FIGHT this >generation...." I'll never understand why this album is so consistently underrated, even among Pavement fans. It did take a while to grow on me, but I'm now at the point where I play _Wowee Zowee_ more often than any of the others, except maybe _Slanted and Enchanted_. At work but avoiding doing any, Jase ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 01:09:27 From: Kenneth Lee Subject: Re: New (Old) Photos? "kinney sleater" wrote: >Lastly, I'm surprised there were very few comments on Liz being named Maxim >Online's "Girlfriend of the Day" a few weeks back. Seems like an odd PR >move to me, but it didn't seem to cause much of a stir on the list, except >for some discussion of the origin of the photos they used... Oh, I never actually posted this info to the list (I did this on the USENET group alt.fan.liz-phair), so here goes: The Maxim Online Liz Phair pictures are from familiar looking, but all new. Pictures 1 and 3 were taken at the same photo shoot as the pictures from the August 10, 1998 issue of Newsweek (page180.html on my site) as well as the cover photo of the November 1998 issue of Music Choice (page346.html) -- photographed by Lynda Churilla/ Corbis-Outline. Picture 2 was taken at the same photo shoot as the August 1998 issue of Alternative Press (page174.html and page175.html) as well as the "Johnny Feelgood" print ads/posters (page399.html) -- photographed by Madga/Visages. Picture 4 was taken at the same photo shoot as the picture shown in the March 1999 issue of Chicago magazine (page395.html) -- photographed by Max Vadukul/Corbis-Outline. Am I comprehensive or what? ;) And thanks for the links to the other pictures. I had seen some of them before, but I've never added them to my site (inexpicably). :) - -Ken kenmlee@ix.netcom.com MeSmErIzInG - AnOtHeR LiZ PhAiR WeBsItE http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Club/2471/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 07:56:25 -0400 From: "sam" Subject: mermaid avenue II et al. mermaid avenue II came out last week, valerie. and the week before, Bloodshot Records released Early Tracks, a buncha old B-sides from the old 97's. jorge, i'm almost done with your 97's compilation. remember i promised? i'll be in Dallas on 6/23, so i'd love to talk to you about your fair city if you're so inclined. also, there's a quote i'm looking for the origin of. i'm totally paraphrasing, but it goes something like: "the biggest failure in communication is the assumption that it was actually accomplished." anyone who can correctly identify that will get a prize from me. maybe even liz-related. could i get more away from liz content, sandra "you know me well enough to see that if you think you're it, you better check with me." -- elizabeth clark phair ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 07:58:05 CDT From: "christine m." Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #153 Subject: RE: Born Entertainer Whoever it was who got the new Veruca and is wondering if it is a "clean version" - check the track "USED TO KNOW HER" - there is a line in the second verse in which she clearly says "I used to *fuck* him...." As far as my CD goes - I can hear the "F" word quite clearly several times on the album. Dan. %&%&%&%&%%%%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&% "I don't have a case, that's why I have a hammer." -Farrah Fawcett, "Extremities." *******************************^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:53:17 EDT From: AimeeRoadie@aol.com Subject: Re: "there are those who call me.... TIM!!!" Jase- You certainly make A LOT of valid points. I guess what disappoints me is having that target date in mind and watching it come and go. Maybe I'd be better off if they didn't say "spring release" until they're 100 percent positive of such a date. But I'll always ache to hear new Liz, even if it's one song on a Lilith Fair boot. BTW, I'm baaaaaaaaack.... paige- * * * * * * * * "looking for somebody's arms to wave away past harms" Elliott Smith, "2:45 a.m." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:10:05 -0500 From: Vasant Ramamurthy Subject: Re: born entertainer >From: "christine m." >i went out last night and bought the new veruca salt CD. i am only about >half way done with it, but i am very happy so far. its a bit more mellow in >parts than the previous once, but its ok. i really enjoy listening to louise >sing, i hardley even noticed there was no nina. >now to my question. i picked it up at Big K. anyway, in the start of the >second song, there is a part where it sounds like she is going to say fuck, >but says ff.... or something. is everyone's like that, or did i get a >rated-G version ? also, ive noticed that veruca salt does not swear much on >their CDs. i like it >christine yeah, you got hosed with buying the clean version. but it's not that big of a loss. i think there're only like 4 or 5 words on the whole album that get bleeped. moral of the story: never ever buy CDs at places like K-Mart, Wal-Mart, or Target. god knows what they do to those CDs. it's best to stick with MUSIC stores. i also think it's funny that these same stores sell millions of copies of britney spears records to teens, while censoring stuff like veruca salt, while the britney spears record is far more sexually suggestive & will have more of an impact on impressionable youth. on the subject, can somebody tell me why the new sonic youth album has a warning sticker on it?? i've listened to it at least a couple times, and I can't remember anything vaguely offensive. none of the song titles even have swears in them. vasant vr1@cec.wustl.edu http://vasant.tsx.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 12:17:04 -0400 From: valerieb@mindspring.com Subject: 7 veils robert said: >I justed finished reading a great article over at Ken >Lee's always informative Mesmerizing site. He has an >article there that discusses the book and play >'Salome', from which Liz got much inspiration for her >song "Dance of the Seven Veils" off Exile in guyville. i'm going to check that out. incidentally, i was in a play in high school where i played salome. i forget the exact name of it, but it was a trial of pontius pilate for the crucifixion of JC, set in a modern day courtroom but with bibical characters for witnesses. fun stuff. oops, my lucnh date is here! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 10:33:25 PDT From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: hey Rose... calling all Madder Rose fans... Mary Lorson has a new solo album under the name Saint Low and it's beautiful. Not sure if it's out in the States, but on the UK it's on Cooking Vinyl records and she's playing in London next week.. 15th 12 Bar club and 19th Borderline (supporting Willard Grant Conspiracy). The Wilco & Bragg album is out and once again the Wilco tracks are the best, looks like all the best Bragg ones went on the first one. As for internet radio... try www.spydaradio.co.uk/radio you can listen live or to the archives. Someone with the same last name as me tends to play Liz a lot, so look around the spydaradio presenters to see what you find! ..Off to see Baby Bird tonight, Hoorah!! "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:05:04 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #153 You there wouldn't be such a thing as 'clean' and 'edited' versions of songs if it hadn't been for the work of the Parents Music Resouse Center, or PMRC, a group that basically advocated censorship, with lots of ties to the right wing in the US, in the 80's/early 90's. And who headed up this group, Tipper Gore, Al's wife. She could be first lady this November. And Al's no bargin either she got him to hold hearings when he was a senator on rock music, in the 80's. Vote for Gore on election day, but be careful. Andrea aweiss4338@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:18:58 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Nick Nelson Subject: Re: Hello, Stranger I have a version of this song (the Carter Family one) on a bootleg with Natalie Merchant and Michael Stipe (among others). Good call on the similarity in theme - the lonesome person looking for a human connection - although in Liz's the narator is a prostitute and in the Carter Family song he or she seems to be a prisoner with a fantasy relationship. I recommend this disc, it's billed as REM, Steve Wynn, Opal, and Natalie Merchant at McCabe's in 1987. It's an acoustic, folkie type of thing where everyone seems to be having fun. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 14:37:13 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: "there are those who call me.... TIM!!!" Paige wrote: >You certainly make A LOT of valid points. >I guess what disappoints me is having that target date in mind and watching >it come and go. Maybe I'd be better off if they didn't say "spring release" >until they're 100 percent positive of such a date. I doubt Liz has very much to do with this, though; more than likely it's the record company who is jumping the gun. They seem to like to get the hype machine rolling several months before an album is to be released, but they seldom take into consideration that the album might not be finished when they project it will be. The music industry has almost turned into the film industry, where first week profits and chart rank are everything; like the Hollywood blockbusters, they like to get people talking before there's even much to talk about. Matador was pretty good about things towards the end of the wait for WCSE; they acknowledged that at several times they had spoke too soon and they understood why so many of us were frustrated. I think that after that fiasco, though, Liz or her management should have made sure Capitol wouldn't do the same thing again themselves. Getting the word out early in itself doesn't hurt, but when release dates get pushed back, they should recognize that they lose a little goodwill among the loyal fans who had been looking forward to the album's release. I have a good feeling though that we won't have to wait quite so long for the new album (thank God) -- the first release date announced for WCSE had been in May 1996, when the album didn't even have a working title, and the actual release didn't happen until August '98. I really can't see this one taking nearly as long (let's hope). I guess one of my points before is that we tend to take Liz for granted. I can't even think of what it would be like to not have her at all. _Exile in Guyville_ did a lot to change how I look at and appreciate music, and ever since then, Liz has set the standard for all other music for me. And with few exceptions, there aren't that many who even come close. >But I'll always ache to hear new Liz, even if it's one song on a Lilith Fair >boot. Wasn't there supposed to be a new set of Lilith discs this year (and possibly a film) to commemorate last year's tour? It seems funny that we haven't heard anything about those yet, considering last year, the discs were released right around this time. Liz did perform a couple of new songs at the shows last year, and it would be nice to see one of those be included - -- just something to tide us over until the new album is released.... >BTW, I'm baaaaaaaaack.... Welcome back! Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:09:48 EDT From: Emo5858@aol.com Subject: Tabs and more than 20 ways.... Does anyone have tabs for 'shane', 'crater lake', or 'alice springs'? I spent last weekend realising more items to put on the -blue green smoke- site list of 20 ways to know youre obbessed w/ Liz. I went to my brother's HS graduation and saw some kid in the program whose name is "Alvarez" and of course thought immediately of "uncle alvarez" off of WCSE. And all that weekend, I had a Liz song stuck in my head. All the tracks from the three albums sorta meshed together in this wonderful 55-hour long medley. Then there was the 3 dreams in which each had a certain Liz song/album as its soundtrack. You know when you wake up at 3 am singing one of her songs, you gotta be a bubble left of plumb. And I have quoted her songs in reply to some of my friends' love problems (btw, all have thought of her as wonderfully profound). Anyway, there's really no actual anything of substance or factual info in this post, I just thought that I would share those little things with the select group who might understand and add their own. btw, I am really late and wrong in response to this post, but I would choose girl bands. although I hate labeling what I listen to, my majority of records, no matter what genre, are by female artists. I mean, I couldnt live without the Donnas and Bjork and stuff, but then I DEFINITELY wouldnt be able to live with out the DAVE MATTHEWS BAND. Oh my god, theyre the most talented group of men on EARTH. Alright, enough rambling for this post. love anastasia `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````````````````````````````` "When I lived in Porpoise Spit, I used to sit in my room for hours and listen to Abba songs. But since I've met you and moved to Sydney, I haven't listened to one Abba song. That's because my life is as good as an Abba song. It's as good as Dancing Queen." - Muriel's Wedding ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:29:57 -0700 From: "Dana Polachowski" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #153 >Matador > didn't really care if one of their artists were to offend you; Capitol's > move seems like an apology-in-advance in case they did. > hahahahaaaaa.... not when they [matador] release an anthology called "fuck you, you fuck." god, that one makes me laugh so hard.... dp ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jun 2000 16:46:36 CDT From: "Molly Magdalene" Subject: Off Topic:The Cure Hello All. I dunno if any of you are fellow Cure fans, or if any of you are ticket holders awaiting your turn, if you are i tell you now, you're in for a real fucking treat. They're just..i have more appreciation for thier music now then i ever did before which is a miracle because i've always been such a big fan....yeah..anyways.. M "I wanna smash the faces of those beautiful boys Those christian boys, so you can make me cum that doesn't make you Jesus" ~Tori Amos~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #154 ************************************