From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #147 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Thursday, June 1 2000 Volume 03 : Number 147 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: The Grateful Threads ["Michael Worrell" ] the Phest [RocketBoyD@aol.com] Juvenilia found... ["Shelly" ] Juvenilia ["John A. Johnson" ] Jorge's threads [Craig King ] RE: New Veruca Salt. [Dan ] Re: the Phest [MaryChristineK@aol.com] offtopic: Aimee Mann & Eminem [Liz Gould ] new Veruca [Mike Marlatt ] [none] ["Molly Magdalene" ] Re: support-system-digest V3 #146 ["Pat Smalley" ] Re: (no subject) [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] spokesmen for the decade??? [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Re: New Veruca Salt. [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Re: vs [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Re: vs [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Re: spokesmen for the decade??? [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Re: spokesmen for the decade??? [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Juvenilia [Emo5858@aol.com] gender wars ["an angry post-feminist" ] Re: spokesmen for the decade??? [AWeiss4338@aol.com] Liz Phair and Starbucks. ["Andrea Steiner" ] hola [Gerardo ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:00:17 -0400 From: "Michael Worrell" Subject: Re: The Grateful Threads Jorge Cooper wrote: >Which would you choose if you could only have one gender for >the rest of your life/and why do you choose that side. >If you go female, sorry, no Nirvana or Smashing >Pumpkins. If you go male, say goodbye to Liz and >Sleater-Kinney. What will it be, male or female >crooners? The reclusive Steve Kisko and the infamous K. M. Lee will easily attest to my particular choice here, but it's simple. Kill the men. From Liz Phair to Cerys Matthews, and all points in between---there's nothing like a good voice from a good-looking girl. If push came to shove, I'd throw my token eels and Elliott Smith albums to the P. J. O'Rourke/Hunter S. Thompson LSD Shotgun Shootout in a heartbeat. If I never hear another Cobain song, that'll be just fine with me. On the other hand, I don't think I'd have a lot of fun without Liz Phair, Sheryl Crow, Juliana Hatfield, Shelby Lynne, etc.; life would be rather boring. I think the original reason I used (other than one which nowadays would ignite a flame war I have no interest to take part in) was a quick little one-liner of 'If I want to hear a guy sing, I can do it myself--and probably better than most current artists." I dunno. The only guys I've found tolerable so far are those who made up Jefferson Airplane, but YMMV. Stranger things have happened. Around 150 CDs. Four of them are guys. =P Michael NP: "Madonna Speech", Reservoir Dogs soundtrack "The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - --Hunter S. Thompson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 02:19:27 EDT From: RocketBoyD@aol.com Subject: the Phest what about the Liz Phest........? I'm a little uninformed, if someone could post some details or tentative plans, I'd greatly appreciate it................... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 04:50:21 -0700 From: "Shelly" Subject: Juvenilia found... From Gerardo "You found a copy of Juvenilia in a record store?! how odd, i went to the US a couple of weeks ago and Juvenilia was never found. But i found the 'Jealousy' promo for about $1.55..." I was amazed the last time I went to this small, used & new record store locally (I live in Oregon, the store was in Portland). Just for fun, I checked out the section marked "PHAIR, LIZ" (I think it's a habit, I check in every record store I go to for her stuff...) Anyway, in there was a new copy of "Juvenilia" selling for $9.99! I almost bought it, since it was different than the copy that I now have (Thanks to Jake!). Cool thing is, it was a bit different than the one I have now too. Mine is a fold-out cardboard cover, with bright pink trim--no CD lyric or photo insert. The one in the record store was in the classic jewel-case with a photo/lyric sheet. Same Colors & photos on the outside cover though! That was a couple months ago...funny thing is, I bet it's still there! ~gunshy~ Shelly ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 08:26:28 -0400 From: "John A. Johnson" Subject: Juvenilia On Tue, 30 May 2000 11:48:49 EDT erica asked: > Any way, my liz content is as follows: so I'm looking at my juvenilia Cd >and I notice theat on the front it says juvenilia and on the side it says >juvenalia. Hmm I say to my self thats odd. I began to wonder is everyone's >is like this or is mine special. the other day I was in th CD store and I >looked to see if there were any there. there happened to be a copy of the CD >and on the fron and side it was spelled Juvenalia. >I'm curoius as to how it's spelled on all of your Cds and I would like >someone to explain WHY if he/she knows. I dunno. "Juvenalia" seems to me to be a corrupted form of "juvenilia," a term that refers to the earliest work of an artist or writer. I ordered my own copy of Juvenilia (and that is the spelling on the front and side) from CDnow last year. The thing I found odd about the CD case is that the soft plastic base was wrapped in a tri-fold cardboard cover rather than a hard plastic case. I wondered whether that was standard or whether this was something like a special re-issue. I just now did an album title search on Juvenalia (no matches) and Juvenilia on CDnow. Juvenilia is the title of a 1996 album by a group called the Verlaines. Liz's Juvenilia CD is stamped 1995, so I don't think she would have had a copyright problem with the title. A search for "Juvenalia" in Alta Vista turned up 548 pages, a number of them in Spanish or Polish. One review of Liz's album, at: http://www.addict.com/ATN/issues/1.11/Sections/44.1kHz/Phair,_Liz/Juvenalia. html uses the spelling "Juvenalia" to identify the CD but then spells it "Juvenilia" all the way through the review, including in the title. My conclusion is that people are caring less and less about spelling these days and therefore becoming more and more careless about it. (Not that I particularly care myself.) - ---------------------------------------------- John A. Johnson http://www.personal.psu.edu/~j5j/ My views do not necessarily reflect the official views of Penn State. Penn State is not responsible for my behavior. Nor am I for the university's. "Don't take yourself too seriously/There are precious few things worth hating nowadays/And none of them is me." -- Todd Rundgren ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 06:47:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: Jorge's threads >>1) Now that the list bashing/hysteria has dwindled, how about something positive about the list. What are your top 2 or 3 experiences that stemmed from Dr. Jason's monster?<< Mine are actually much the same as yours Jorge: a. The Lounge Ax show - March 14th of last year - A weekend/night I'll never forget. Seeing and meeting Liz live in person for the first time. Meeting and hanging out with alot of fun/cool people like Jorge, Katie B, Jase, Janet, and others.... That whole weekend was a blast!!!! b. Learning about and growing to love artists like Juliana Hatfield (whom I get to see in Chicago this Friday!) and Aimee Mann (whom I just got to see in concert in Vegas! Great show!!!!), who I both heard about from this list. c. Liz Phest, which as Jorge said, is coming up in a few weeks. I can't wait to meet more hardcore Liz phans like myself and do all the stuff we have planned. It's going to rock! Plus, anytime I get to hang out in Chi-town is a good thing! d. One more - corresponding with alot of cool people whom I've met through this list like Spaceeggy Katie, Robert, Jorge, and everyone else. You guys rule! >>2) Which would you choose if you could only have one gender for the rest of your life/and why do you choose that side. If you go female, sorry, no Nirvana or Smashing Pumpkins. If you go male, say goodbye to Liz and Sleater-Kinney. What will it be, male or femalecrooners?<< My god, this is a tough question. There are so many female artists that I love, but I would honestly have to choose the male genre. Here's why. As much as I love Liz there are two artists that have gotten me through more tough times in my life than anyone else. Those artists are Stone Temple Pilots and Tom Petty. I don't think I would be able to give them up so easily. Then again I probably wouldn't be able to give up Liz so easily either! However, if someone held a gun to my head and told me I had to choose, I would choose the male genre. Sorry, but I would. Ok, this post is long enough. Craig NP: Kid Rock - The History of Rock <-- That's right, I listen to Kid Rock and I'm not ashamed to admit it!!!! :) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:14:45 -0400 From: Dan Subject: RE: New Veruca Salt. Nacho Bell Grande person wrote/asked: >Has anyone went out and got the new veruca salt (louise only) CD? and how is >it? I was on ebay yesterday and it was already up there, it makes me think. >i have been a big fan of them in the past, i hope this one is good too. The new album rocks - but it is a Veruca Salt album. I can't say they are any more IMPROVED than they ever were - all I can say is - I don't think they suffered Nina's departure at all. For me (no offence to Veruca fans) Veruca Salt has always been a "fun band". Like, REALLY REALLY good ear candy - with the occaisional song that would remind me of an ex, or make me think of myself. But in all honesty - I never related too much to songs like "Seether" and "With David Bowie" or "Disinherit". (Or "Straight"..ehheheh). Like, I love all the songs, I think they are loud, pretty, they get me pumped up before I go out - they're fun to put on mix tapes - they sound lovely the louder they are played - but in all honesty - Veruca Salt never struck me as an AMAZING, INCREDIBLE band... they were just a really fun rock band..that *really really* rocked out. I wouldn't call them incredible musicians, they were just always fun...sometimes their lyrics were a little silly "Fuck Humility, we're AWESOME!!" but they were always really funny and cute in a way that only Veruca Salt can be. The new album "Resolver" is just a perfect fix of new VERUCA music...I love it...but it won't change your life. (Although I think "Disconnected" is my new favorite song by them....well - nah...but close.) PS - this is soo weird. I can remember being on this list when I first heard Nina left the band..at the time, I heard the band flat out broke up. I remember posting a little "RIP VERUCA SALT" epitaph to the then "6'1" Digest". It's crazy...time flies...holy shit. NOw there is another album and Nina's is on the way...crazy how shit changes.... okay..laters, Dan. %&%&%&%&%%%%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&%&% "I don't have a case, that's why I have a hammer." -Farrah Fawcett, "Extremities." *******************************^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^* ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 11:19:45 EDT From: MaryChristineK@aol.com Subject: Re: the Phest Are there any plans to visit any clubs during the Phest? Is it Friday and Saturday? As for the alien "I woke up alarmed, " I love it. I dont know if this idea is a little over the top, but could we have that image screened on a heavier little tank or cropped top? I bought a cropped WCSE one at Lillith two years ago and it still lookes better than some of the shirts I bought a year ago. Any feedback. . .? M/C ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:16:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Liz Gould Subject: offtopic: Aimee Mann & Eminem Aimee Mann's appearance on Conan is replaying Friday night for any of u who care... Last night I was flipping through the channels when I saw eminem on MTV being interviewed, and they asked him about the gay stuff and his conflicting pro/con gay lyrics... He said he didn't want people to know if he likes or hates gays... I dunno... That's it! Liz __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 13:15:29 -0400 From: Mike Marlatt Subject: new Veruca Well, after my big speach about how I wasn't going to buy it I broke down and bought it anyway. I should have gone with my instincts. I like that 3rd track but other than that I think it's pretty weak. Half the songs are under 3 minutes and I just could find a single track that I could listen too over an over again. I bought the 2 new Juliana Hatfield albums as well and was really impressed. Although they aren't any songs that really stick in my head they're the kind of albums that you can just play the whole thing and not have to skip any tracks. It really flows well. I saw Sarah Harmer last week (lead singer from Weeping Tile). Picked up her new album at the show and was blown away (by the show too). I think it's only available on her website (sarahharmer.com). For those who don't know her I've heard the best comparison is Lucinda Williams. It's a little twangy (just a little) but it's just great roots rock and she's got a great voice. Mike Marlatt Investment Advisor NESBITT BURNS Tel: 443-1622 Fax:443-1524 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 14:01:16 CDT From: "Molly Magdalene" Subject: [none] >Correct me if I'm wrong -- someone actually was comparing Eminem to >Kurt >Cobain? No, no, i don't think that's what happened at all.... >Why cant we all just get along. I'll admit to not reading the list >for a >couple of days and now it seems that I have returned for the >remains of a >really nasty fight. that upsets me. Um...we pretty much are all getting along..there was no "really nasty fight"...you missed a discussion. Igggg... M "I wanna smash the faces of those beautiful boys Those christian boys, so you can make me cum that doesn't make you Jesus" ~Tori Amos~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:00:06 +0100 From: "Pat Smalley" Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #146 Hi there, Although I have been subscribed to this list for a while I admit to not having read it for a while. So when I started to read a digest the other day I found that there seemed to be a change in the attitude of some of the subscribers had changed. Not only were some of the mails offensive (OK I know that you should be able to make a point but please try to be less agressive about it,more people might take notice of what you have to say) but the argument wasn't about Liz and this list is supposed to be.C'mon people you're adults , act like it. Thanx for reading, Mark. P.S. Where are Spaceggy Katie and Ruthie now? I think I used to enjoy their posts. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 16:31:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #146 <> <> And i trieeeeeed to tell, you before, that that's whyyyyyy, they left support-system.... Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:47:30 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: (no subject) In a message dated 5/30/00 4:38:33 PM Central Daylight Time, FoxM1121 writes: << Dear America Online and Instant Messages users: Our America online staff is planning to take away IM by July 14th, 2000. If you want to keep our IM free of charge, send this email to everyone you know. It will be used as a petition. Each person you send this to counts as one "signature" If this petition gets 100,000 signatures they will keep AOL IM. If they do not receive 100,000 votes you will have to pay 15.00 to have IM (per month). If you don't care about this then please for everyone's sake help out a little. Thank you for your time and consideration and please help AOL beat their vote. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:57:28 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: spokesmen for the decade??? hey everyone- i remember a while ago we were talking about how kurt was the spokesman of the 90's and how the 00's doesn't have one yet. Well, i think ive found a band that i believe fits those requirements. this band isnt COMPLETELY different (like grunge was) so i guess there wouldnt be a major alteration in music style or anything, but this bands music is a lot better than things that have been coming out lately. Im thinking about that band "3 Doors Down". That "kryptonite" single is really good, and it isnt really a "formulated" song like everything nowadays seems to be. this is really the only song that ive heard from this band, but from what i have heard, the music is awesome, it means something, and is a departure from the crap that radio has been playing lately ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:24:48 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: New Veruca Salt. In a message dated 5/31/00 10:32:41 AM Central Daylight Time, danmac@mnsi.net writes: << PS - this is soo weird. I can remember being on this list when I first heard Nina left the band..at the time, I heard the band flat out broke up. I remember posting a little "RIP VERUCA SALT" epitaph to the then "6'1" Digest". It's crazy...time flies...holy shit. NOw there is another album and Nina's is on the way...crazy how shit changes.... okay..laters, Dan. >> veruca salt was dead for about a year b4 louise decided 2 keep the name ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:28:33 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: vs In a message dated 5/31/00 5:15:25 PM Central Daylight Time, irenet@irenet.net writes: << what suburbs are you from? dog ear records on libertyville has some copies, circuit city in vernon hills does, sam goody in vernon hills and northbrook do, record town in veron hills does, etc. >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 19:28:50 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: vs In a message dated 5/31/00 5:15:25 PM Central Daylight Time, irenet@irenet.net writes: << what suburbs are you from? dog ear records on libertyville has some copies, circuit city in vernon hills does, sam goody in vernon hills and northbrook do, record town in veron hills does, etc. >> palatine ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:14:08 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: spokesmen for the decade??? I would agree about 3 Doors Down being spokesman for the decade but two things. 1, this song Kryptonite sounds a little too much like Golden Earing's Radar Love to be truly origional. 2. It's a Christian band, what are Jews, Muslims and so on suppose to listen to? The song is about accepting Jesus, most Jews wouldn't do that, not to mention other faiths. I have candidates of my own though, Sleater-Kinny, Elliot Smith, and yea, Liz. They might be 90's people, but they speak to this new century too. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 20:27:48 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: spokesmen for the decade??? In a message dated 5/31/00 7:14:08 PM Central Daylight Time, AWeiss4338 writes: << Sleater-Kinny, Elliot Smith, and yea, Liz. >> i totally get your point, but see, i already view these pple (liz especially) as spokespeople of the 90's. liz may not be remembered now, but she really was phenomenon. believe it or not, a bunch of people (im a highscholl freshie!) hardly even know who nirvana is anymore. all they know is the name. most of them cant even place a song or a band member to the name nirvana. sad right? well, we thought that kurt/nirvana was a spokesperson too! anyways, what im trying to say is that just because pple dont remember liz, doesnt mean she didnt make an impact or wasnt a "spokesperson". get it? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:02:41 EDT From: Emo5858@aol.com Subject: Juvenilia Hey everyone. I'm looking for anyone who'd be willing to sell/trade Juvenilia (Liz Phair, for the grrls group) to me, or perhaps burn a copy for me. I have a bunch of CDs thatd I'd trade for it, from ABBA to Portishead to Q-Tip....and so on...but theyre only studio stuff....so yeah...email me privately if you'd like to work something out. yours, ana `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` ```````````````````````````````````````````` "When I lived in Porpoise Spit, I used to sit in my room for hours and listen to Abba songs. But since I've met you and moved to Sydney, I haven't listened to one Abba song. That's because my life is as good as an Abba song. It's as good as Dancing Queen." - Muriel's Wedding ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:06:05 PDT From: "an angry post-feminist" Subject: gender wars questions from the last digest: I would most definitely only listen to womyn artists since i do anyways. I do not really enjoy male singers. Most make me want to gouge my eyes out with a blunt object. Yup I have 50+ female singers already. I mostly have all the cd's of each b/c i am a completest freak. I can't not have all of their cds. I include boy/girl bands (like bis *blush* 'aren't they dreamy?' new mini album comes out the second week of june) because a girl sings too and I like 80's sounding voices too. What else was there? hmmmm. ohhh. the new Veruca Salt album is my fav. Even though I have trouble considering it VS. It sounds the same. Only super better. American Thighs is second. It's really really good though. The new Jane Jensen cd 'Burner' is out. Dunno if any of her fans are on this list. http://www.janejensen.net I hope Liz's cd comes out this year. I also hope she will put 16+ songs on it. Every new song i have heard sounds great. Nice jump in band sound. yup. she better get cracking. nathan ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 21:56:09 EDT From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Re: spokesmen for the decade??? I totally agree with what your saying about Liz and Kurt. Yes it is sad, Kurt was the perfect spokesman for the 90's and now he's a memory. Same with Liz. I don't know you may be right, 3 Doors Down may emerge as a spokeperson for the new century. And that no one may remember Sleater-Kinny by the end of the decade. I don't know, someone has got to emerge. I don't want it to be someone like say, Rob Thomas (no offence to any Matchbox 20 fans), because I'm not sure he wants it. Someone, or a band is out there that may blow the roof off one day and then everything will change. Or maybe not and then what happens? Rock dies from being out of ideas, I hope not. Andrea ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 23:06:11 EDT From: "Andrea Steiner" Subject: Liz Phair and Starbucks. I was in Starbucks today on Third Avenue in Manhattan and I thought I heard something familiar. Turns out, the sound system was playing Uncle Alvarez. I was so happy to hear her voice! I think they were actually playing all of WCSE, but the store was closing for the night so they shut the stereo just as it was about to go into the next song. Andrea <>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<> "I've got to tear my life apart and go west, young man." --Liz Phair <>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<> ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 00:14:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: hola I just wanted to say i'm happy to see so many Elliott Smith fans in this list. You know, that nice feeling when you see an artist you like mentioned, in a positive way of course. hmmm... never thought about it, but, i usually dislike usenet groups or mailing list when i see artists i like put down, i know i shouldn't but, i can't help it, it pisses me off when Morrissey is put down, for example. I was checking www.jamestheband.com and i saw in this msg posting section, a post by someome saying this stupid senseless things about James, in their web site! saying they were manufacturated, and that they care more about their image than their music, etc. I didn't read the whole message. Anyway, that, somehow makes me feel unconfortable. Oh, i don't like when Whip-smart is put down! It is just as good as Exile or WCSE, 'Nashville' comes from whip-smart, and i think that's enough to give some credit to the album. And, i'm going to stop caring about these things, i really should. I usually try to avoid talking about this kind of issues, music is what matters, Viva la musique. About Veruca Salt: i got mp3s from 'Resolver' recently, and it is good album, not the kind of album i would enjoy a lot, but good. I like Nina's demos and live stuff better, had to say it. Recomendation of the day: Anything by Belle & Sebastian! Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #147 ************************************