From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #144 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, May 29 2000 Volume 03 : Number 144 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: off topic: eminem ["Michael Honaker" ] please explain, tim [JAberna226@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V3 #143 [Biggerd000@aol.com] Re: off topic: eminem [Jason Long ] Re: support-system-digest V3 #143 [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Bounced message [Jason Long ] Re: support-system-digest V3 #143 [Letreg@aol.com] Who Are Those Thieves? ["Michael Worrell" ] Be Nice ["Molly Magdalene" ] Jeff Buckley ["Scott - 32 flavors ..and then some" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 01:33:01 -0700 From: "Michael Honaker" Subject: Re: off topic: eminem Ok, color me stupid, but I'm one of those "queer" folks that like Eminem. True, theres a fine line between joking about hating people and actually meaning it and sometimes he may cross it a little, but even if he is meaning it seriously, he states it in a joking manner. I can understand your concerns about it though. But people should try and imagine that he's intentionally trying to grab their attention and piss a few people off... while joking. That was pretty sad that you posted what that guy wrote to you... and even his name as well. If he had the courtesy to email you off list instead of harassing you on the list, then he deserves the same courtesy. You probably didn't mean it to seem like you were trying to get the last word in by naming him publicly, but thats the way I took it, and probably others as well. Shit, maybe *I* should apologize for what I just typed... I'm sorry that . Riot Poof proclaimed: > I am sorry for posting that to the liz phair list. i should have thought > twice before posting that to a public list...i guess i got caught up in > the moment and just wanted as many people as possible to see that...and > since i knew there were lots of queer folks on the list list...well...I > still stand by everything i said, but i suppose that is irrelevant. After > sending it, i received hate mail from a fan (please do NOT email me again, > tim bean), addressed to both me and GLAAD, saying things like... ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 02:29:22 EDT From: JAberna226@aol.com Subject: please explain, tim Tim, I agree that blacklisting an artist is pretty extreme. Could you help me out? Maybe we misunderstood these lyrics attributed to Eminem: "You faggots keep egging me on 'Til I have you at knifepoint, then you beg me to stop" "My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge That'll stab you in the head whether you're a fag or les Or the homosex, hermaph or a trans-a-ves Pants or dress Hate fags? The answer's yes ^J" "Hey, it's me, Versace Whoops, somebody shot me And I was out checking the mail Get it, checking the male?" Could you explain them? Maybe these aren't even his lyrics (I really don't know), or maybe he's PRETENDING to speak as a homophobic idiot. My question is, IF these really are his lyrics, how can you defend them? Stirring up the anthill, Jason ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 02:47:05 EDT From: Biggerd000@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #143 eminem wow you know i dont like rap and i consider myself to be pretty open minded though i like the rest of us is really just a loser inside but that is somethin i have to deal with(DIGRESSION) i dont like rap but eminem is damn good at it i listen to him often actually i really really think he is a awesome rapper and to just hate him so much that you would SCREAM yr opinions at strangers (much like i am now) is really weird do you also stand in front of abortion clinics and yell at people in there maybe its not that bad what you have done but i would never post anything about how i hate someones music anyway i wish i had some liz content but i am such a shmuck that i come here for my liz news rather then be able to give some my self but i have and will keep my eyes open. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 03:25:08 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: off topic: eminem Michael Honaker wrote: >That was pretty sad that you posted what that guy wrote to you... and even >his name as well. If he had the courtesy to email you off list instead of >harassing you on the list, then he deserves the same courtesy. You probably >didn't mean it to seem like you were trying to get the last word in by >naming him publicly, but thats the way I took it, and probably others as >well. Personally, I'm glad he posted what had been sent to him privately. It's one thing to post something to the list and receive a response off-list that presents a differing view, but it's another to be sent something harrassing and abusive. It's cool if someone wants to state a different opinion or disagree, but to threaten to e-mail someone every day until they apologize and insult them? Some people have too much time on their hands -- to quote a Jen Trynin song title, "Too Bad You're Such a Loser." I really don't see what people who send such nasty e-mails hope to accomplish, but I know several other people from the list have received such messages in the past in response to opinions they had expressed on the list. I also know that some of these people are now very reluctant to post anything at all, for fear they will receive the same treatment again. This is not cool -- people should not be made to feel afraid to post to this list because of other list members' behavior. We're a very diverse bunch on this list; not everyone is always going to see eye-to-eye. But for the love of God, will people realize for once and for all that while it's cool to have different views and to debate them, it is not cool to personally attack anyone, either on the list or off? If you can't defend your position without resorting to such tactics, maybe you really don't have a leg to stand on in the first place. Anyway, from now on, should anyone receive abusive private e-mails from other list members, please let me know about it. Three strikes and they'll be gone. I'm tired of such immaturity running rampant, diminishing other people's enjoyment of the list.. Geez, and you know, I thought Liz fans were generally a really intelligent bunch.... For some reason, I expect more than this. Anyway, I'm glad Steve posted what he did. It's so funny how Tim's response to the list was designed to seem more thoughtful and considerate, but what he said privately was quite the opposite. It was good to see Steve out him for what he really is. All Steve had did was post about something that he has a legitimate concern about, adding his own opinion and presenting some examples to back it up. I saw nothing wrong with his post nor any justification for the private abuse he has taken as a result of it. Jase NP: XTC, _Wasp Star (Apple Venus, Volume 2)_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 04:29:04 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #143 Biggerd000@aol.com wrote: > i dont like rap but eminem is damn good at it i listen to him >often actually i really really think he is a awesome rapper and to just >hate him so much that you would SCREAM yr opinions at strangers (much like i >am now) >is really weird do you also stand in front of abortion clinics and >yell at people in there maybe its not that bad what you have done > but i would never post anything about how i hate someones music Well, people share their opinions, both favorable and not, about dozens of other artists on this list on a regular basis. It never seems to bother anyone, though, until a negative opinion about an artist they like is expressed. Then all of a sudden, it is terribly and horribly wrong, even if that person has participated in such threads about other artists in the past. Let's do away with the double standard and respect everyone's right to express their opinions, even if you don't necessarily agree with them. I don't think what Steve did was the equivalent of standing in front of an abortion clinic and yelling at the people in it -- he was expressing what was, to him, a quite legitimate concern and he's completely entitled to feel the way he does. I can't help but be a little bothered by such lyrics myself. What pisses me off is that if Eminem's lyrics contained racial slurs, surely no one would be defending him the way they are now. For some reason, when gays are put down, it's somehow permissible. But you know, replace all of the gay slurs with racial epitaphs and I'm sure there would be a lot more outrage and fewer people jumping to his defense. Hell, the record might not have made it onto the shelves. Can we say "double standard?" Anyway, I find it really disturbing if he really does feel the way his lyrics suggest. If he doesn't, then it's obviously just a cheap attention-getting technique -- if his music can't speak for itself without resorting to such tactics to get noticed, then there's probably not much to it in the first place. Either way, it's really lame. I mean, how is it really necessary? It's not. If you want to listen to a thought-provoking record that doesn't resort to cheap tactics and actually has something to say, pick up the new Sleater-Kinney disc, _All Hands on the Bad One_. It's an album that seems like a reaction, in part, to "artists" like this. Pissing off more people no doubt, Jase NP: Aimee Mann, _Attack of the Killer B-sides_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 04:39:13 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: AWeiss4338@aol.com Subject: Em The Em The Gay Basher This is cool, what is the website for GLADD, I'm sure anyone who wants to protest this could send an e-mail to all the parties involved through them. I sure would. Yeah freedom of speech does give you the right to say what you want, but with that right comes responsibilities. And one of them is to not say stuff that reinforces stereotypes of gays and lesbians. This is going beyond offensive speech, which is protected by the constitution, as the Supreme Court once again reaffirmed last week with their decision saying that cable companies must unscramble channels like Playboy, to outright gay bashing, and someone might do exactily that, egged on by the lyrics to these songs. I've heard this guys music and it isn't much, there are better rappers around, like, for instance Missy Elliot. Where is the musical outcry agianst this. Those preformers who are against stuff like this should organize and play music trashing these sentiments, the best way to fight hate speech and the only way to do it that isn't censorship. This is why I wrote my book, this is why Lilith Fair and Roit Grrl happened. And it should keep happening, who knows, if enough people speak out, there could be revolution, something pop music desperately needs right now. Andrea aweiss4338@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 04:40:26 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Bounced message From: Nick Nelson Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #139 >I was listening to WXRT Sound Opinions show, and Jim >DeRogatis mentioned ... and LIZ PHAIR. >He said that she is moving to LA and ended at that. >Did anyone else hear that? >Going to sleep sad... Going to sleep happy. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 10:45:51 EDT From: Letreg@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #143 my new email address is letreg@mailcity.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 13:04:08 -0400 From: "Michael Worrell" Subject: Who Are Those Thieves? I'm sure everyone's familiar with EIG's second track, "Help Me Mary". The following question stems from that song, so grab your CDs (Barbie porno labels or not) and skip past one of the best tracks on the album, to another splendid song. Who _are_ these thieves that leave suspicious things in the sink, etc., etc., etc.? Once upon a time, someone broke down the meaning of the song, and if that's still out there, floating around in someone's saved mail, I'd appreciate it if they'd toss that out to the list as well. Michael NP: "Help Me Mary", ECP "There are three basic types, Mister Pizer: The wills, the wont's, and the cant's. The wills accomplish everything, the wont's oppose everything, and the cant's won't try anything."--VINCENT, "The Black Hole" ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 12:54:49 CDT From: "Molly Magdalene" Subject: Be Nice >>I know all of this stuff is really hard for you to understand, but >>understand this: I will e-mail both of you every fucking day until you >>1.apologize for being so stupid and >>2.stop sending this shit out and >>3.send an apology letter to every place you released the bullshit you >>sent out originally. I think this was probably just rude and uncalled for and i have a lot of trouble believing that anyone is really going to listen to you after being so rude about it. Sure you're entitled to your opinion. I can even see your point of veiw and agree with you in sorts(not from the above copied of course but from your post)but that doesn't mean you have to be so fucking crass about it man. You don't have to undermine people and act like they're idiots because they choose to take offense to it and you don't. You don't have to refer to them as stupid, and you certainly don't(and need i mention can't)need to be telling them what to do. >I should have known better than to post to the liz list You know i wouldn't worry to much about it cause one jerk has his panties on a little to tight. The few other people who posted in regards to it(myself included) seem to be rather pleased that someone is willing to post something about it. Maybe there is some irony in all of it. Maybe he's not serious. Maybe he's trying to be "Funny" but all the same that doesn't mean that you have to like it. That doesn't mean that anyone has to like it. It certainly doesn't mean that anyone should open fire on you and send you hate mail. Yeah anyhow..i know i'm going nowhere with this so i'll just quit now. M "I wanna smash the faces of those beautiful boys Those christian boys, so you can make me cum that doesn't make you Jesus" ~Tori Amos~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 15:47:57 -0400 From: "Scott - 32 flavors ..and then some" Subject: Jeff Buckley Anyone have the Jeff Buckley CD or the live one? I got the Last Goodbye mp3 and I've been kind of addicted (if you count listening to a song 50 times addicted).. Are the other sogns as good? His voice is beautiful.. Scott [[maybe i'll be discovered, maybe i'll be colonized]] AOL IM - JewelDSL ... ICQ #63589535 Let Me Fly - A Jewel Fansite [http://altern.org/jewellmf] Little Plastic Pages [my personal page ... coming soon] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 22:43:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: RE: Jeff Buckley <> Man Jeff was such an incredible guy, 'Grace' is an amazing, beautiful work, a must have! go get it. I'be listening to Lou Reed's 'Transformer' do yourself a big, big favor and get that one too. Viva la musique! Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #144 ************************************