From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #131 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Tuesday, May 16 2000 Volume 03 : Number 131 Today's Subjects: ----------------- you might even shake the hands of presidents [RocketBoyD@aol.com] Boxed Sets or MP3's ["Steven Adams" ] Unhateful / G.S. question ["Michael Honaker" ] RE: Unhateful / G.S. question [Gerardo ] "Combo Platter" [Jason Long ] RE: Unhateful / G.S. question [Jason Long ] getting my goat ["Chipko Arnold" ] goat sign / No Liz content [Craig King ] Secretly Timid [Gerardo ] Re: Secretly Timid [Jason Long ] what should be said and what shouldn't and all about good neighborliness [brian d irby ] WCSE sessions [Gerardo ] off subject: Veruca Salt, MRL, and the Philly Area [Emo5858@aol.com] Goat Sign [drpeak@juno.com] Re: Goat Sign [Trent Vanegas ] Re: getting my goat ["crack head" ] FAITHFUL TO THE LIST ["Emma L. Demastrie" ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:21:51 EDT From: RocketBoyD@aol.com Subject: you might even shake the hands of presidents lets lighten up folks............................................................. the list isn't that bad........................................................... topic: the fabled Liz Phest in Chicago this summer discuss. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:43:42 +1000 From: "Steven Adams" Subject: Boxed Sets or MP3's DISCLAIMER: I haven't been following the boxed set thread too closely, having said tha, on with the show The idea of boxed sets is great, but it could become alot of hassle for people overseas (as well as the person that has to send it to them). Someone mentioned having all the songs on an ftp site in MP3 format, this sounds like a great idea, then everyone could download, convert to wav and burn the CD's. Some people get intimidated sending money/blanks/first born son off to another country, but not so much when its to someone in their area. BUT, would people mind the extra file size if the MP3's were encoded at a higher bitrate? alot of whats available on the net is fine for PC speakers, but on better speakers you can here the fuzziness that encoding at normal bitrates introduces... *sigh* digital storage is nice, but analogue originals had it all..... my $0.02 Steven ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 03:03:34 -0700 From: "Michael Honaker" Subject: Unhateful / G.S. question Anyone else recognize there haven't been hate wars going on in the last few digests? I find that a nice thing to see. Maybe others are starting to listen to Jase. Thats a good sign. And, Molly -- Thanks for agreeing, although you did make a better point than mine with your last post. Anyone else notice the link to girlysound from the last digest didn't work? I'm wondering if its just my connection... most usually is when these problems arise. Oh well. Oh yeah, which brings me to an age old question that I've been forgetting to ask: Is "Combo Platter" actually from Girlysound or was that just on the single and people started sticking it on the discs? - -Michael mhonaker@eurekanet.com The Liz Phair Bootleg Archive: Supernova http://www.eurekanet.com/~mhonaker/supernova.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 03:26:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: RE: Unhateful / G.S. question <> It is from the Girlysounds, it seems like 'Money' and 'Combo Platter' are similar songs, and 'Shitloads of money' from WCSE is like a rework of both of them. Still not sure, i'm going to listen to my newly burned girlysouns soon. A friend told me he saw a video for 'Combo Platter' which is weird, never believed him, but in the time he told me this, he didn't even know about 'combo platter' being in the girlysounds, he just told me "Hey i just saw this great liz video called 'combo platter'!" so... Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 03:33:05 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: "Combo Platter" Michael wrote: >Anyone else notice the link to girlysound from the last digest didn't work? >I'm wondering if its just my connection... most usually is when these >problems arise. Oh well. Oh yeah, which brings me to an age old question >that I've been forgetting to ask: Is "Combo Platter" actually from >Girlysound or was that just on the single and people started sticking it on >the discs? It's not actually from Girly Sound; in the bio for the Supernova single, Liz described it as an "experimental mess" made up of material from those tapes, but it was never on any of the original copies that circulated. The first person to add it to Girly Sound discs would have been Patrick Oltraver, who was the first one to circulate the demos in their entirety on CD-R, back in mid-to-late '96 on the Guyville list. I never understood why he included it, especially since at that time it was still commercially available and most fans had the song already. Since then, a lot of people have followed his lead. When I make copies for people, I usually leave it off since it's not really a "true" Girly Sound track. For the Supernova single, I almost wish Liz had included an actual untouched Girly Sound recording or two -- in my opinion, the more of this material that sees official release, the better, especially since the sound quality on many of the bootlegs circulating now is awful. Cheers, Jase NP: Sonic Youth, _Daydream Nation_ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 03:42:40 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: RE: Unhateful / G.S. question Gerardo wrote: ><Girlysound or was that just on the single and people started sticking it on >the discs?>> > >It is from the Girlysounds, it seems like 'Money' and 'Combo Platter' are >similar songs, and 'Shitloads of money' from WCSE is like a rework of both of >them. Still not sure, i'm going to listen to my newly burned girlysouns soon. "Combo Platter" is made up of the original Girly Sound recordings of "Money" and "In Love With Yourself," along with part of "Johnny Sunshine" played backwards overtop. It is not, however, a Girly Sound song itself. >A friend told me he saw a video for 'Combo Platter' which is weird, never >believed him, but in the time he told me this, he didn't even know about 'combo >platter' being in the girlysounds, he just told me "Hey i just saw this great >liz video called 'combo platter'!" so... There actually is no video for "Combo Platter," which was only a b-side and not even a commerically viable song. Perhaps the station that aired it mistitled it. The only Liz videos that exist are for "Never Said," "Stratford-on-Guy," "Supernova," "Whip-Smart," "Jealousy," "The Tra-La-La Song," "Rocket Boy" and "Polyester Bride." Cheers, Jase ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 01:53:45 PDT From: "Chipko Arnold" Subject: getting my goat >Subject: The goat sign > >All right! Here's a question that's been pondering my >head for too long and I might as well ask! I've >noticed lately during most of the rock concerts I've >attended, people do the goat sign. Soo...my question >is: What's so cool about the goat sign and why do >people do it? Another thing...any idea on when this >sign came about and became popular? >Katie ();) ....WOW, so it's a goat sign!!! Never knew that. See, you can learn something every day. No idea why it's done though, although i've been known to do it a lot, purely in irony though. I thought it was some devil thing, with the two horns 'n' all and that it was mostly a heavy metal thing. I do it in a sort of "RAWK" way, mainly when i'm at Wannadies gigs or listening to something with loud guitars and want to add pathos to the whole proceedings. Also use it to annoy the god botherers who pester me on the streets. "and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... Joseph Lee Henry. "i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 07:00:54 -0700 (PDT) From: Craig King Subject: goat sign / No Liz content >>What's so cool about the goat sign and why do people do it? Another thing...any idea on when this sign came about and became popular?<< Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I use the "goat sign" at virtually every concert I go to. It's just a way of showing the band or artist that they rock and that you like their performance. It's pretty much the same thing as clapping. I don't know exactly where it originated, but I seem to see it used most at metal concerts. My guess is that it surfaced somewhere around the late 70's/early 80's when metal started to become really popular. I don't remember seeing people doing it in concert films before that point. Although I could be wrong. Craig NP: Stone Temple Pilots - NYC/Irving Plaza/4-5-00 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:41:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: Secretly Timid I was getting 'Secretly Timid' last night, and noticed that there are just girlysounds songs in it. What is it? is it a kind of 'best of' girlysounds compilation? Remember the Phairy Tales FTP? Well this guy is back, he's using freediskspace now, check it out: http://homes.acmecity.com/music/latin/350/liz_phair.html Thank you. Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:54:45 -0400 From: Jason Long Subject: Re: Secretly Timid Gerardo wrote: >I was getting 'Secretly Timid' last night, and noticed that there are just >girlysounds songs in it. What is it? is it a kind of 'best of' girlysounds >compilation? Yeah, all it is is a bootleg CD of 20 of the Girly Sound songs; for the most part, the ones with the best sound quality from the tapes that were circulating at that time. Also, perhaps the bootlegger didn't think a lot of people would be willing to pay for a double disc set and condensed it to one. Jase ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:05:13 -0500 From: brian d irby Subject: what should be said and what shouldn't and all about good neighborliness Jase, I want to add my thoughts to the matter. I hope you don't decide to make it a Liz only list. I agree with the person that said that the list would be non existant during times when there is little Liz activity. Plus, I have gotten good ideas on what music to buy from people raving about their favorite non liz artists. Now, my thoughts on the words that have regretably cropped up on this list. Sure, one has the right to say them, but the individual doesn't have the right to make others hear them. Since this is essentially Jase's house (the list as metaphor), you don't have the right to come into his house and use language that he or others find objectionable. Brian ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 00 09:40:34 -0700 From: "Al" Subject: Aimee Mann/Michael Penn Hey I know there are a lot of Aimee Mann fans on this list. Anyone from L.A. who likes her and is interested in seen her and Michael this Friday at the Henry Ford Theater in L.A., email me and I'll give you the details. Al :) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:42:03 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: WCSE sessions Please, i need the tracklisting of this bootleg. And, there are so many diffrent covers of that cd, why? how did you people get it when it was out? Was it made and distributed by a member of this list? Help Jase. Thank you. Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:46:00 EDT From: Emo5858@aol.com Subject: off subject: Veruca Salt, MRL, and the Philly Area I'm from the Philly area, and I heard that VS was going to be on Modern Rock live last night. The only station around that carries (carried) the show is y100. Tell me why I stayed up to F*n 11 last night when I was dead tired just to tape that show, and they had on the pretentious BS of pearl Jam instead?????? When in the heck did they stop carrying the show? Am I THAT out of the loop??? I reeeeeaaaaalllly wanted to hear that show!!! Can anyone "hook me up"? xoxo stacy "When I lived in Porpoise Spit, I used to sit in my room for hours and listen to Abba songs. But since I've met you and moved to Sydney, I haven't listened to one Abba song. That's because my life is as good as an Abba song. It's as good as Dancing Queen." - Muriel's Wedding ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:05:56 -0700 From: drpeak@juno.com Subject: Goat Sign Hey Katie! About the "goat sign" people do at rock concerts: It started out as a heavy metal thang in the seventies (Or maybe with the Stones in the sixties? Hmmm.....) Mock devil worship and all that. What cracks me up is when I go see a folk act or acoustic based group and there's always at least one slob in the front row drunkenly yelling "Slayer! Play some Slayer" while doing the goat (devil)horns. Roy Katie ();)asked: All right! Here's a question that's been pondering my head for too long and I might as well ask! I've noticed lately during most of the rock concerts I've attended, people do the goat sign. Soo...my question is: What's so cool about the goat sign and why do people do it? Another thing...any idea on when this sign came about and became popular? Katie ();) ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:02:00 -0400 From: Trent Vanegas Subject: Re: Goat Sign The original origin goes back to pre-Christian days. The hand gesture where the middle finger and the ring finger are held down in the "goat sign" was a pagan symbol for the horned god (like Pan). It was a reverent symbol used in ritual. When christianity took hold and proclaimed the "horned" pagan god as their devil the hand gesture became associated with satan. Worshippers of satan began to use this hand gesture as a reverent symbol for them (or something like that). And, all that "cool" devil worship has trickled into concerts (Ozzy was among those who made this popular--KISS and Motley Crue [shout at the devil] also come to mind). Modern pagans still embrace those ancient symbols as signs of reverence for their religion even though others have tried to defile it (that's why many ignorant people assume pagans are satan worshippers--nothing can be further from the truth--they do not even believe in satan). Anways....that's where the "goat sign" comes from originally At 05:05 PM 5/15/00 -0700, you wrote: >Hey Katie! About the "goat sign" people do at rock concerts: It started >out as a heavy metal thang in the seventies (Or maybe with the Stones in >the sixties? Hmmm.....) Mock devil worship and all that. What cracks me >up is when I go see a folk act or acoustic based group and there's always >at least one slob in the front row drunkenly yelling "Slayer! Play some >Slayer" while doing the goat (devil)horns. > >Roy > > > >Katie ();)asked: All right! Here's a question that's been pondering my >head for too long and I might as well ask! I've >noticed lately during most of the rock concerts I've >attended, people do the goat sign. Soo...my question >is: What's so cool about the goat sign and why do >people do it? Another thing...any idea on when this >sign came about and became popular? > >Katie ();) >________________________________________________________________ >YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! >Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! >Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. "ever since I met you on a cloudy Monday I can't believe how much I love the rain" --Chantal Kreviazuk ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:28:00 EDT From: "crack head" Subject: Re: getting my goat never heard it called a goat sign, either... :) my friends and i always called it the "Hail Satan" sign. :P anyway... a friend of mine noticed just how similar the sign for "I love you" and "Hail Satan" are... So she did this thing where she would alternate between the two signs by moving her thumb in and out and saying in a monotone, "I love Satan I love Satan." *lol* OK. I guess you'd have to see her do it. But it's really funny, trust me. :P erin >....WOW, so it's a goat sign!!! Never knew that. See, you can learn >something every day. No idea why it's done though, although i've been known >to do it a lot, purely in irony though. I thought it was some devil thing, >with the two horns 'n' all and that it was mostly a heavy metal thing. I do >it in a sort of "RAWK" way, mainly when i'm at Wannadies gigs or listening >to something with loud guitars and want to add pathos to the whole >proceedings. Also use it to annoy the god botherers who pester me on the >streets. > > > > > >"and i wonder how i've come to know so much less than i knew before" ... >Joseph Lee Henry. > >"i know the promise is so much better than the real thing" ... Grand Drive. > >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 23:50:03 -0400 (EDT) From: "Emma L. Demastrie" Subject: FAITHFUL TO THE LIST (1) Go Greg!! I agree with everything you said the other day about this listserv. This is the first listserv I've ever joined, and I thrive on it!! Like Greg, I enjoy figuring out everyone's personalities and I enjoy the rambling as well. What I don't enjoy is people complaining all the time about other people's posts. This is a listserv; people post to it. It's the point of a listserv. Get over it. That being said, I've been introduced to so many different musicians on this list, and have been made aware of other people who like the same music I do. And I've also learned to argue my opinions more articulately and consider the opinions of others before giving my opinion. You know, I didn't join this listserv just for Liz info. I joined it to be on a valuable music discussion list, which this is. I don't think the listserv should cover Liz info exclusively. Let's face it, it would be a pretty boring listserv. And Liz's music enters so many different avenues it's no surprise that one Liz-related topic often leads into a non-Liz-related topic. It's all a testament to the power and influence of her music, in my opinion. Anyway, I just wanted to say that "Support System" has enriched my life quite a bit this past year, and "I'm connected to you" guys, so please don't leave because you're a little frustrated. And if you really care about the listserv, take the time to post something meaningful. (2) Gerardo: I read all your posts, honey, so don't worry, you are loved:) - -Emma NP: Sleater-Kinney, "The Hot Rock" (I haven't gotten their new one yet) ********************************************************************** Emma Demastrie edemast@gwu.edu ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #131 ************************************