From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #130 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Monday, May 15 2000 Volume 03 : Number 130 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Jase or someone start a new list....or start cancelling memberships.... [Patrick Chan ] Here's a possibly good rule... & Boxed Sets [Greg Bishop ] RE: Here's a possibly good rule... & Boxed Sets [Gerardo ] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 01:05:55 -0600 From: Patrick Chan Subject: Re: Jase or someone start a new list....or start cancelling memberships.... Hey all, A few thoughts have been posted by Jason and Tad about the problems on this list. I disagree with any notion of setting up another list and making it invitation only. It would tend to be a bit "elitist", and imho, hurt the dynamic nature of a list community. What I've always liked about this list is the very fact that it tends to meander. Just reading the posts, I've noticed that many subscribers have discovered other artists just by the discussion that goes on. Sure, we do wander kinda far off topic a lot, but that's ok - do you and your friends always talk about whatever brought you together to start with? Jason's vision is a community... one we joined because of our mutual love of the exalted Liz, and one we stay in because of the camaraderie and friendships that can develop. The biggest hinderance, and what I think the biggest problem with the list - the number of people here that are under the impression that they're the list administrator. And by this, I mean all the whining and complaining (eg. "Hey, I thought this was a Liz list? What's with all these posts? She should get her own...") There's a protocol to any mailing list - if you look at the list information, it says specifically that if you have any problems or issues regarding the list, email Jason (at least it should say that, I can't seem to find my copy.. :-) )... not post to the list and try to change things themselves... which leads to a lot of back and forth crap that becomes fairly mundane and annoying. It's Jason's responsibility to address issues, and draw the line when he sees fit. Unfortunately, due to the number of "administrators" on the list, even when Jason makes a ruling, no one listens, or feel they have the right to argue with him. So, what's the solution? How can Jason ensure his authority is respected? (Why did I just get an image of South Park's Cartman squealing "Respect my authority!!" :-) ) Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like waving his "badge" around is helping... Which means he will need to restrict some of our freedom and take action beyond a verbal lashing.... It isn't the best situation to be in, but it's what we deserve. My thoughts.... 1) Booting people for infractions - might be a tad harsh.... 2) Private lashing - give the culprit an opportunity to respond to his actions. If he seems unapologetic, or can't get his head around what he did wrong, turf him. 3) The 3 strike system Jason mentioned is a thought - I've implented this on a list I run and everyone's since settled down. I've lost track of who even has any strikes, so lucky them, they've got a clean slate. 4) Probation - If I recall correctly, majordomo does have the option of placing subscribers onto a "no post" list. These people will continue to receive postings, but will not be able to respond. Perhaps a combination - lash him privately so he knows what he did wrong, a 2 week probation the first time, 4 weeks, then 6 weeks... and if he continues to act up, off he goes... I don't think it's necessary to write up a specific list of rules for people to follow - ie. a list of taboo words shouldn't be necessary. If it is a concern, I'm pretty sure you can set up a taboo list in major domo that will bounce any "rude" posts - it's been a little while since I've had to deal w/ the lovely major. What we do need is a list of generic rules like "Consideration and respect for fellow subscribers", "No flaming", "No trolling", etc. and this should be reposted on a regular basis - we seem to have short memories here. Jason - one thing you can do is precede all your adminstrative posts - rulings on issues, list information, etc with a note in the subject. It might help clue people in that you're chief... You also need to make it abundantly clear what kinds of posts will be tolerated. When I ran into this problem (as every list admin does), I repeatedly pointed out that off topic posts are allowed (to a degree), but an impression has been formed that only on topic posts are allowed... and with Liz's limited activity, traffic would slow to a mere trickle.... my two bits... Patrick (not particularly impressed with the list martyrs, but that's my problem) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 05:59:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Easter Subject: The goat sign All right! Here's a question that's been pondering my head for too long and I might as well ask! I've noticed lately during most of the rock concerts I've attended, people do the goat sign. Soo...my question is: What's so cool about the goat sign and why do people do it? Another thing...any idea on when this sign came about and became popular? Katie ();) ===== ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ "Twenty thousand faceless names, this is your show." - Chantal Kreviazuk __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 07:14:07 -0700 From: Greg Bishop Subject: Here's a possibly good rule... & Boxed Sets Discussions are OK. Name calling and inane arguments (ie "flame wars") are just tiresome. Michael's points in SSD v3 #129 were well taken. There is no need to have the last word, especially with people you have never met. Maybe that's just something you learn along the way. Perhaps some of these things can be continued privately if they flare up into flames. (Again, like Michael said.) Whatever happened to that boxed set idea? I e-mailed the guy (Nick, I think his name was) who wanted to coordinate, but haven't heard anything about it for a few days. He said something about getting permission to do it. Why do we need "permission" from anyone? I volunteered to do the graphics and find a cheap printer for the boxes. If there are less than 100 people who want this set, it might be doable without resorting to commercial printers, CD manufacturers, etc. We could figure out the costs based on materials (CDRs, covers, b/w or color printing) and split the costs equally amongst all. I did a one-off CD last year and it ended up being about 5-7 bucks per disc, including cases, covers, inserts, etc. This might also guard against e-bay assholes sellling it, because it would be difficult to reproduce as an object. Perhaps even Liz herself would like to have a copy. She signed my girlysound CD a couple of years ago. Someone suggested that the set could be virtual, as in MP3s on a site somewhere. I kind of (well, really do actually) like the idea of something you can hold in your hands, read at the breakfast table, or look at while the music is playing, you know? It becomes an object of "devotion" in a way. Is this idea dead already? I apologize if this has all been discussed before. Did I miss a lot skimming over the flame posts? Greg B. NP: WCSE again, and that "This Time, Just the Girls" CD set. Kicks ass, it does. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 13:04:25 CDT From: "Molly Magdalene" Subject: NLR:Solutions? >>I wonder if the world would just be shocked and >>amazed if i simply said that you had a good point.... >Well, I have no idea of whether you're typing that out of sarcasm or >not, >so I'll just not make any judgements. No, i was actually serious. >I wonder if there's a way to have certain words blocked from appearing, >without having to go through each post... Some email systems do it. >They >simply insert "" in the place of it. It would be >nice to >have something like that, if there was an automated way. I also realize that i have no room to babble on this topic, however..i guess i'm gonna do it anyway. You have a point, but in my opinion i don't know how much that would solve since i don't think it's the "words removed" that are offending people for the most part so much as what is said before and after them. >Anything that has to do with a discussion NOT related to Liz, put NLR: >in >the subject line. And perhaps if there's something bitchy in the post there could be some sort of code for that allowing those who don't care for it or are annoyed by it to pass it by easily and it also saves Jase the trouble of having to do the list manually. Yes, i do confess, i see the temptation and the love of the idea of the list not having any "flame wars" but it's just not realistic. So, rather than wanting everything perhaps you can take what you can actually get and...okay i dunno where i'm going with this one anymore... M "If you want to challenge the system, don't go to bed with it" ~Ani DiFranco'~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:38:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: RE: Here's a possibly good rule... & Boxed Sets <> I suggested that, and i'm just like you, i love cds, the artwork, diffrent sleeves (sorry moz :), etc. It is kind of a fetish thing of music fans, i get original bootlegs when i can get them, even if i can get them in mp3 and burn them, bootlegs are bootlegs. When i just can't find rarities or live performances and i really want to listen to them, then i burn them. What i was trying to say, is that the box set thing may be very hard to get together, i don't know how that would work, and since i live in mexico, it'd be hard for me to get it, well i would try anyway. I'm getting some of the stuff i was missing in this great site: http://homes.acmecity.com/music/latin/350/liz_phair.html Remember, those are just rarities, nothing officially released. I'm having Girly Sounds and other liz rarities burned by a friend, i'm going to give them my first listen soon, but i'm going to try to get the box set if it gets done some day, make it worth guys. Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:18:35 EDT From: Sexililgurl@aol.com Subject: girly sounds hey hey guys! i'm not really a regular "post-er" and noone probly knows who i am but yeah! anyways. . to start of with the offtopic. . .. is anyone from the reading pa area and got to go to vertigo fest? it was fucking awsome. Mary Prankster kicked so much ass. So did D'arey October. so yeah. .. for the liz material. .. can anyone burn girly sounds. i've been hearing shitloads about it for about the 2 on and off years i have been on this lists and finally just can't take it anymore and need to have it!;) thanks in advace to who ever might be able to hook me up. ;) love ya all! ~taryn "rip of the wrong people and they send you to jail, rip of the right people and they say you have initiative"~mary prankster ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:52:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: RE: girly sounds I can't burn them for you, but if you have a fast connection go to: http://homes.acmecity.com/music/latin/350/liz_phair.html You can find all the girlysounds in mp3 and other great liz rare stuff. I'm beggining to think no one ever reads my posts. Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #130 ************************************