From: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org (support-system-digest) To: support-system-digest@smoe.org Subject: support-system-digest V3 #125 Reply-To: support-system@smoe.org Sender: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Errors-To: owner-support-system-digest@smoe.org Precedence: bulk support-system-digest Wednesday, May 10 2000 Volume 03 : Number 125 Today's Subjects: ----------------- Re: Subject: Re: The state of popular music......? REZNOR is RIGHT! [HOLE] RE: When Last We Left Our Hero... [Gerardo ] Re: Subject: Re: The state of popular music......? REZNOR is RIGHT! ["Jas] Re: Words ("fag"/ etc.)/ boxed set [HOLEPARTS@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: The state of popular music......? REZNOR is RIGHT! [HOLE] cookies / Muses [JAberna226@aol.com] Re: Subject: Re: The state of popular music......? REZNOR is RIGHT! [Gera] Jonathan Davis Has Feelings Too ["Molly Magdalene" ] responses [robert joyner ] Re: support-system-digest V3 #124 [Biggerd000@aol.com] Re: support-system-digest V3 #124 [Biggerd000@aol.com] ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:48:59 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: The state of popular music......? REZNOR is RIGHT! In a message dated 5/9/00 12:29:14 AM Central Daylight Time, driving_sideways@hotmail.com writes: << Sure, anyone can say it -- but not on this list. When I say something is not going to be tolerated, I'm not saying it just for the sake of saying it -- I mean it. And you know what? If you don't like this or any of the other list rules or policies, feel free to leave. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.... >> oh, im sorry i joined a list for kindergartners! i can see why it would be offensive now...... seriously tho, its not like we are all 10 years old or something. i think that we are old enough to be able to take some offensive language. oh well, if its a rule its a rule. its not the only stupid rule ive heard of ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:52:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: RE: When Last We Left Our Hero... <<(although I think Tracy Bonham's "Down Here" is awful swell).>> Really? I heard some of the music in CDnow, and she's playing really hard, but it doesn't sound like something i would buy, but those where just samples, i could change my mind though. Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:58:48 EDT From: "Jason Long" Subject: Re: Subject: Re: The state of popular music......? REZNOR is RIGHT! HOLEPARTS@aol.com >oh, im sorry i joined a list for kindergartners! i can see why it would be >offensive now...... seriously tho, its not like we are all 10 years old or >something. i think that we are old enough to be able to take some offensive >language. oh well, if its a rule its a rule. its not the only stupid rule >ive >heard of It's not a matter of being "old enough to be able to take some offensive language" -- it's a matter of being respectful of the other members on the list. If there is a chance a word may cause offense, it shouldn't be used. Period. By the way, sorry to be snippy here, but I can't help but wonder.... You know, it's hard to take seriously the opinions of someone who cannot even attach their name to them. Just curious, why do you never sign any of your posts? Jase ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:01:38 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: Words ("fag"/ etc.)/ boxed set In a message dated 5/9/00 9:02:29 AM Central Daylight Time, exclmid@primenet.com writes: << Bravo to HOLEPARTS for her great comment. Worthy of Lenny or Carlin! We've had some disagreements, but she's OK in my book. >> just so that you all know, im a guy, not a girl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:17:41 EDT From: HOLEPARTS@aol.com Subject: Re: Subject: Re: The state of popular music......? REZNOR is RIGHT! In In a message dated 5/9/00 9:58:45 PM Central Daylight Time, driving_sideways@hotmail.com writes: << By the way, sorry to be snippy here, but I can't help but wonder.... You know, it's hard to take seriously the opinions of someone who cannot even attach their name to them. Just curious, why do you never sign any of your posts? >> i never really thought of that to tell you the truth. i guess im just too lazy to sign my posts. here, ill start from now on. and i really dont understand why it is hard to take my opinions seriously. just because i dont sign my name? that doesnt make much sense to me at all. i didnt know signing your name was a necissity in order to be on this list. then again, i didnt know that i could say fag or any other WORDS on this list either ~HOLEPARTS the all american screw-up ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:41:07 EDT From: JAberna226@aol.com Subject: cookies / Muses Amid the super-serious topics flying around, << we don't care that your girlfriend hurt your feelings when she dumped you. stick cookies up your own ass. >> I'm glad there are still comments that make beer shoot out my nose (ow!). Thanks Steve. And Jeff, boy am I jealous about you seeing the Muses reunion with Bob Mould opening. I doubt if they're coming to Texas. That's it, Jason ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:42:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Gerardo Subject: Re: Subject: Re: The state of popular music......? REZNOR is RIGHT! I have to say something here. <> Sounds funny coming from the girl who said the fagotty chair thing. <> i think that we are old enough to know how to speak. <> kindergartner Thank you. Gerardo * ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 22:45:28 CDT From: "Molly Magdalene" Subject: Jonathan Davis Has Feelings Too >Since everyone seems to have a problem with how everyone else >contributes >to the list, how about we just not contribute? Sure, the >digests would be >miniscule, but I wouldn't have to waste my time >reading about what word >was used in what context and who was offended >and who wasn't. I have a better idea, how about you not read it. If you feel like it's such a waste of you fucking time just don't read it. YOU are the one that is all put out about the whole issue. >Now go about your business. I have spoken. >(Hey, someone's gotta take over the egothrone for MrE.) That ain't no shit..in in light of that i think we should all demand his return from wherever it may be... >that crowd at Woodstock 99 was primed and ready for action and when >you >have that kind of music happening, well, that's what you get. I can see 100% what you guys have said about the agressiveness of the music being a factor, but i also believe that if people are going to rape and riot they are going to do it even if they're listenign to Enya. Now i realize that i'm never sitting around with a crowd as large as the one Woodstock 99' consisted of but me and many of mine can sit around "ready for action" and listen to Korn and Limp Bizkit and all that other shit till we're blue in the face and never end up doing anything more harmful than stealing pumpkins. >re: limp bizkit/icp/korn/etc......... >does anyone else ever wonder why suddenly all these rich hetero white >boy >bands feel the need to scream?? 1)it be okay for them to scream if they were poor, homosexual black boys, or what? 2)Though i can see the confusion amongst those who don't listen to this kind of music i don't think it's fair to group Korn with ICP and Limp Bizkit. Then again i don't think it's fair to group ICP with anyone. They should be maybe sent to an island all of thier own and informed that 2 is not a "posse". Anyhow, regardless of the fact that Korn and Limp Bizkit are well known as friends, however i don't find their music to be similar at all. And i've never head Jonathan Davis bitch and moan about anything that i would call trivial. This is sudden. It's been going on for a while. 3)would you rather that as soon as they get their money they stop? I mean i'm sure Liz could live like a whore in church for the rest of her natural life and not record a single nother song, but you know maybe,(and try your hardest to correct me if i'm wrong)some people actually do their music because they *enjoy* it not because of the money. Granted i'm sure it's a perk but i doubt that it's the only reason. 4)i'm not sure that it makes them the most privileged person in society. I mean do you think Jonathan Davis is any more happy about about his father raping him as a child and his mother standing by and watching because he has his money? >and i do think they are just inherently mysoginistic (ahhhh cant spell) >and even racist...like...they're trying to reclaim the music industry >or >something because they feel threatened that the 90s boom of music >by women What?! Yes, okay then..what-ever. Thank you so much for pointing that out. I'm so glad that you have it figured out. You know what? These people screaming(Some of them i certainly won't defend them all)have just as much of a right to be making their music as everyone else. As all the righteous babes okay? I don't think that they are trying to reclaim anything. I don't think that as many of them as you seem to think think it was ever there's in the first place. I wouldn't be so fucking paranoid because i don't think we're going to hear anything anytime soon on Mtv news about how Korn refuses to make music because Ani DiFranco' makes more off her albums than they do. >this is a reaction to how women in music when they finally got some > >respect in the industry had that stolen away from them by rap/metal. I'm sorry, i might be an complete fucking idiot or something but i just have a hard time believing that Jonathan Davis, and Fred Durst, and Kid Rock were sitting around and were just like all pissed off cause those damn chicks finally got the respect they deserved so they were going to do something about it. >Will all you my-music's-better-than-your-music people just SHUT THE >FUCK >UP? Yeah, you know what, i don't think that's quite what anyone is saying. How can you condescend to think you know EXACTLY what is going on here, and then in the same breath proclaim the fact that you only scroll through the list? Finally watched "American Beauty", can't even begin to sing my praises. M "If you want to challenge the system, don't go to bed with it" ~Ani DiFranco'~ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 04:13:03 GMT From: "pat flynn" Subject: NIN+Chantal+homos i just wanted to say that NIN is great. the music is incredible, especially some of the older stuff. plus they got me into hole, which was cool cause now i really dig hole-plus his concerts are incredible, i saw him with david bowie, who is amazing, and the concert was great, a lot more energy and more comfortable than liz on stage- also i saw chantal kreviazuk at the 930 on saturday, was wondering if anyone else saw it, it was fun-paddy was great. if anyone in dc cares juliana hatfield is playing at the 930 on june 23. during the recent discussion of the word, i noticed that a lot of the guys on this list are gay, and i thought it was funny cause i realized that the only guys i know interested in kick-ass rocker chicks, like liz and ani and tori, are gay guys and i think thats kind of funny- and my opinion on the whole f word thing is that if people think its not alright for everyone to use it only homos referring to themselves or other homos, then there must be dsomething wrong with the word-personally i aint see nothing wrong with it and if someone called me it they know they are going to get something back-so in my circle its ok, but not in everyone's circle, so dont use it, especially since the holy leader said not to. bye pat np-buffy the vampire sndtrk-teenage FBI Forsan olim haec meminisse juvabit. -Virgil ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 21:42:00 -0700 (PDT) From: robert joyner Subject: responses jason wrote "I'm not sure if I blame the bands themselves, but I do have to wonder if the aggressiveness of their style of music was not somewhat at fault. I'm not saying that I believe that any of these bands actively promoted or encouraged anything that happened, but I'm not sure I can completely rule this out as a factor." Have any of you take into account the size of the crowd at the Woodstock event. The crowd was anywhere from 250,000 to 400,000 people probably. The psychology of a group of this size allows for activities to take place at an event of this size that wouldn't happen at a club gig of 1500 or an arena show of 10 or 12000. People will act in a mob differently than they will act as an individual. I'm sure there was unsavory activity at all times during the 3 days, even during the Jewel and Alanis sets. That doesn't make them responsible for what happened though. andrea wrote: "this is a reaction to how women in music when they finally got some respect in the industry had that stolen away from them by rap/metal." I think this is a misinterpretation of what happened. The mainstream moved on. the record companies find a trend ride it for a few years and then relegate back to whence it came (niche markets). Grunge had a shelf life of 3 or 4 years tops. Gansta rap had a short run. Electronica (chemical bro's, the prodigy) had a year or less in the sun. The female phenomenon hit big for three years or so and now we have teen bands and rap metal. This to shall pass. This musical genres don't go away they just aren't able to maintain the cultural zeitgeist for an extended length of time. BTW i think that i have figured out the formula for Andrea's posts: Male + White + Hetero = EVIL!!!!!!! sgriffes wrote "does anyone else ever wonder why suddenly all these rich hetero white boy bands feel the need to scream?? it's like HI, you have money. and you are the most privileged person in this society. shut up. we dont care that your girlfriend hurt your feelings when she dumped you." yeah and take all those female singer songwriters writing about the dissolution of a relationship with you. "Exile in guyville" has such a whiny feminine quality to it. shut up, Liz. we dont care that your boyfriend hurt your feelings when he dumped you. (Since you aren't able to interpret sarcasm by reading an e-mail, let me note that sarcasm is intended here. If i wasn't a big fan of liz's i wouldn't be on the list.) Robert NP: Patti Smith - Rock and Roll Ni.....stop, bad cd player, bad cd player, must remove now before someone hears this song and is offended! ===== I'm Only Happy When It's Rains http://www.geocities.com/janetrains2000/ __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 00:51:47 EDT From: Biggerd000@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #124 damn that nick guy is really pissed about that box set thing shit just doesnt seem fun anymore he got too serious and angry and ruined it ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 01:00:51 EDT From: Biggerd000@aol.com Subject: Re: support-system-digest V3 #124 just finished the that issue of the digest maybe i should have read it all before i sent that thing about nick but i was in a hurry and wasn't thinking too clearly anyway i don't hate Sandra in fact i never even knew who she was before that email and i liked it i agreed with most of it but i don't know though i use to delete it when ever i seen it in my mail box but now i usually at least read the topics and now i realize that it is impossible to have something to say about Liz every day so in some ways i like the way the list is though i haven't read it too much i have never seen anyone call anyone a fag on here (i must have missed that digest) or i haven't seen anyone get nasty with anyone till this latest digest i am kinda just typin out thoughts as they come to me so this prolly doesn't make any sense but i figure we should all just be cool read what we want to and not readd what we dont and just get along no matter what bands you love or hate we are all on this list cause we love Liz phair and damnit who wouldn't she FUCKIN rocks anyway peace and love ------------------------------ End of support-system-digest V3 #125 ************************************